To all team leaders

#1 Hi Alexander,
When I was at the uni and developing my DiabloII like engine, my cousing kept telling me it looked like crap... why do you keep doing this? he asked...

Of course this hurt even more because I knew my engine was able to do all the stuff the DiabloII engine did, including dynamic shadows and blazingly fast 256 color pallete alpha blending, 3D card support, scripting and lots more. Of course the game DID look like crap as I had no artists at all so he was indeed right and truth is never wrong... but is painful. Lucky for me my cousing was 14 years at that time and I was 24 so I was able to beat the crap out of him but thats not the point.

The point is that you are gaining experience. It is possible this game looks bad... maybe... but when you finish you will learn a lot of how to make a game and the next one will be better. Game development is an iteration and learning process for all who are involved, from designers to developers to artists.

So next time they say it looks bad... take it and learn from it. May be true. Yes. But it is YOUR crap. Learn to be proud of that.

Luck!

#2 Oh... by the way... do you want to see a game evolving? Just take a look at Warcraft 1, 2 and 3. Same game. Same logical core. Internally reused a lot of things. Slowly evolved and improved to get better and better. Thats how things work in games.

#3

Quote:
I fired him off my team because he keppt bugging me and never did anything.

That shows good management skills!

#4 Thanks for the replys but i recieved 3 pages of quite positive feedback. So It is not that my game it is just that he is very jealous and he is the type of person it is best to ignore in life and live your life the best you can.

EDIT: To steve there is a much bigger reason why I fired him but I really do not want to go into all that as it is quite depressing. Also This thread isn't about me. It is about team leaders and how much work they do.

#5 Hear, hear. You've just got to be sure about yourself and what you're doing, and if you know you're not just loafing and letting the team do it all, well, then... he's wrong, and you shouldn't let him get to you. Nolite te bastardes carborundorum, IIRC.

Congrats getting to show your game at egames - I had no idea it was on, otherwise I'd have been there!

#6 Thanks daniel. I know I am doing a lot of work as I am constantly putting my team members on the right track and programming, not to mention all the products I need to get so my game is at a high standard so it is pretty hectic at times.

#7 #1 rule in management. Never air your differences out in public.

I had a manager that I worked for at one company, and when I quit he begged me to stay as he had to explain to his management why I was leaving. A year later at my new job I was introduced to a new engineer to train.. Guess who.. So you are 13.. Any chance you may have to work with or for this person again? Good thing I left on good terms, as it helped as I showed this new employee how to do what he wasn't paying me enough to do at the other company.

Oh wait... You aren't paying anyone are you?

This may sound harsh, and in a way it is meant to be. Companies search the internet now for information on people they are hiring. Think they would look favorably on a team leader that openly bashes ex-team members?

Something to thing about from someone who has actually lead teams for probably 15-20 years or so. As you get older you will actually find this could become a legal liability for a company as well.

Oh... Congrats on your game..:) Perhaps a blog showing screen shots and let the community give you their feedback?

#8 Thankyou randy but you must understand this ex-team member was a horrible person. He said things to me that can never be taken back. I don't want to talk about him and I will never work with him again no matter what happens. He is extremely jealous of me and that is why he bashes me. You people don't know him so there is no point in going on about him. So lets just not talk about him if thats ok.

On a much more better topic the last game I showed to people (war of today if anyone knows) was recieved really badly because it was still in very early devolopment and I do not want to make the same mistake. So I will announce Perished with a really good trailer and a release date and you can expect that around christmas depending on whether I can get a good animater. If you can animate well please talk to me on msn or email me at: bruneman@hotmail.com

#9 Cool you had a product to show off, gratz on that :)

Now, Ive been project lead on paied projects, primus motor on events, startup bloke on some pretty wierd things, and project lead (team leader) on a now frozen mmorpg project.

Theres a couple of things to keep in mind as core member, and project lead;

Untill a certain degree of a project is hammered out, its easy to attract community members into your core project. As they can get their fingerprints on the evolution they are pretty happy, with the project and with their own developing skills. Then at some point, as things get set in stone its harder and harder to get fresh blood (especially on long term free projects), and its harder and harder to keep the core together as their vision might differ from the teams (majority and/or project leads, it's seldom that hobbyist/indie projects have a sponsor that sets the line)

Considering the above, a project (team) lead surely have to do 3 things;
Plan the darn project, and define what ressource goes where and when.
Know where ressources are to be found, and their load capabilities.
Have slight to experienced insight into every little part og everything.

The planning needs to be done, and if deadlines arent met, things need to happen at the very same day (feel free to define things)
Who have what skills, or know someone with the skills, and have the capacity to take on a slight task or huge project parts needs to be known by the lead.
If the lead havent the slightest clue, then the issue (User Story, problem domain, etc) cant be defined and explained, ending with loss of respectfrom core and community alike.

I somewhat agree with the claim that leads do a lot of work, but when a project leads reach a point where he have to begin telling that he does things. His team have lost track of what he does, and the interest in carrying the load and holding the banner starts fading.

-

I think its good you dropped a guy that did put the project in a negative light.
I think that if you constantly needs to put the members on track, either the plan or the communication needs an overhaul.

PS: I agree 100% with Randy's rule #1

Good luck with the project :)

#10 Well I may of worded that wrong. I have work documents for everyone. But there may be times when there might not be any work for someone for a while so I have to get some work for them. I think my project is heading in the right direction and everyone is working hard so I hope to have it out by christmas.

#11 I have to agree with Randy though, its always better to remain on good terms with people as much as possible. But i sometimes understand that with some people, its hard if not impossible.

But one thing i really have to say, I'm currently managing a project in my university, and as a sort of "leader", you always have to think about what you say and what you are doing. Give thanks and credit as far as possible, and if you have opinions, give them in a more tactful manner. By going public like this, even if he felt 0.01% of regret, the moment he sees this post, its probably gona drop further, and as in the end, you guys seems to know the same group of people, it doesn't help stuff.

I understand that not everyone can do everything, but as a team leader, i feel that it is our duty to work trice as hard as any other member. If they have problems, from art to programming, i try to help where ever possible. This requires me to know at least a little of everything, from modeling to exporting to programming/scripting so that when problems occur, i at least know whats going on. You have to make your presence felt ! (not take credit, just be there if help is needed :P) When dishing out work, make sure it counts, its not gona get redone or not used etc. In addition, I do alot of the programming itself except for parts which i can't do due to lack of specialization. When people see their leader hard at work, they feel more motivated. I have team members come up and say "Hey ! I've finished my part ! Whats next ?" I know planning and documentation, co-ordination is not as easy as it seems, but people tend not to look at it that way. Thats a sad fact, and you'll have to learn to cover for that by showing your work in other areas.

Anyway, don't worry to much, and don't take it too hard. You're only 13 ! Try to enjoy the experience as much as possible. Cheers !

#12

Quote:You people don't know him so there is no point in going on about him. So lets just not talk about him if thats ok.

I think you see my point now. Actually we really don't either one of you:)

But I did want to respond and give you a tip. I Really can not go into detail (legal reasons) but arguments like that in a team can lead to violent confrontations. When being a team leader, know the signs of a difficult person and how to handle them. What may seem as small argument can quickly escalate a difficult person. As a leader you are charged with diffusing all arguments, reducing stress and making sure the team can cope.

I know you are thirteen, but here is a link to download a good book. Might be a little heavy reading for your age.. Be sure to get permission to download - if you need to. I would highly recommend entering bogus information unless you want to be called about some very high priced college level courses.


And as a firearms/self defense instructor one thing I carry over from that training to every day life well of course with firearms an unsafe condition demands a quick response that may be harsh to the receiver, but It's imperative nothing is left as a negative. Always find something positive to say to a team member. If possible start off with a positive, then the negative then end on a positive.


On your comments on never being a friend with him again. In 11th grade on my first day of school I had a fight with the new kid in school. he was bigger than me, but I threw him over two rows of desks. The teacher walked in and instead of trying to get him in trouble for starting it, I got us out of any trouble or detention. You know he became my best friend for life:) Never say Never...

#13 If you want to feel better go have a look at the customer reviews for the AAA games on Amazon, there's always a few people that will give even the best game a one star rating. Even CoDMW2 get's a whole bunch of one stars, even though most people give it 5.

One reviewer gave one of Bjarne Stroustrup's C++ books a single star because "he obviously knows nothing about C++". I love that one :)

Moral of the story - no matter what you do or how well you do it some people will always say it sucks, so ignore them and just keep going.

#14 Hey Alex!

Well the one thing i loved about reading this post was the fact that you are also still a teenager, and gaining an interest in Game dev.

I know exactly how you feel when someone says your work looks c***, because I too am still 14, and started game dev when i was 12. I finished my first game (run around and collect coins) and was very pleased with myself!

I talked to my friends and showed them. They said "don't you think that looks bad?" And I was very annoyed, and questioned my investment in TGE.

I talked to my dad, who continued to encourage me, and helped along the process of creating a simple game that built on my knowledge.

Through this, i learnt heaps! And now have greta ability in game dev at the age of 14.

My 2 cents of advice about team leaders is that they have a HUGE job! larger than people realize, coz they have to organize everything! And if ever dis-heartened, think about what it will be like to keep trying and achieve, and then be able to show how much you achieved!

PS. don't have super high expectations

#15 Your 14 and you haven't talked to me. I didn't know there were more under 18 devolopers on torque I hadn't already met. Send an email to me at bishop.alexander@gmail.com so we can talk.

#16 I started getting interested in programming at age 12 and not much time later started making games on my own - not releasing them publicly - just to test myself and learn new skills.

Only released some of them to a few friends and even though they had a few bugs that i never realy took the time to track down i had a really positive feedback from my friends and they played them and had competitions betweem them.

Of course then comes my little brother and bashed them all for the sake of bashing them.

That's always how things are - there's always someone with something bad to say about your game. Do you think i started telling everybody how bad and jealous he was? No.

I just kept doing what i love and let him talk all he wants. It's a free country amd he can say whatever he wants, truth or not.

He was not on my team - and in this i agree with you, if he's not helping the moral of the team throw him off the team - but bashing back only makes you go down to his level.

Don't answer publicly or not to bashers - it's best to concentrate on keeping your project going and your team moral high, and when your ready to show your game have people judge for themselfs.

Some will like some won't - that's how it is - even with pro game industry. WoW has a major world wide user base and they love it, yet for me personally it's not that great. It's my opinion and i am allowed to have it.

Blizzard won't ever post about how unfair it is that i say their game isn't all that great, they will just keep doing what they do and make those who like it happy.

Concentrate on your project and team and ignore bashers.

Nobody likes the boss (and a leader is a boss)

#17 Shame you hired him back.

#18 Interesting blog- I would love to see some screenshots of the game! A thing or two to add to what's already been said:

1) Leaders take the arrows, that's how it's always been. I understand the frustration, and much of that is your youth, but it's your place to take the heat for everything that happens within the team. I've had people crap out on me in my project, but for whatever reason, I must shoulder that blame, ultimately. Not that what happens is my fault, but just like a captain goes down with his ship, a team leader goes down with his project (oh boy is that true- just wait 'til you work for a big company!).

2) Know it all. It was touched on before here, and it doesn't come through as a problem in your post, but it's worth noting twice. A manager in a restaurant knows how to operate everything, but needs other people to do these things because he/she is just one person. If one of these people comes up to him with a problem, the manager is expected to be able to deal with it, no matter what it is (and the spectrum of problems in a restaurant is legion). Same with a team lead: Know enough art to have meaningful talks with the artists, enough programming to discuss code with the coders, have good design skills to get the two to talk to each other, and diplomatic skills to keep them from tearing into each other like rabid jackals ;)

Anyway, you seem to be doing pretty well for a 13-year old. Keep on truckin'...

#19 When I was 12 I wrote a scuba-dive game all in assembly! It looked crap, it played crap, it was crap. However, it encapsulated everything that drove me forward in the following years. It had challenges on how to organise code, how to write different code modules and link them together, how to get stuff done on the machine I was using (user input, rendering etc) and finally how to get my body to stay awake for 20+ hours a day.

The thing is, I showed it to some friends and they said it was crap but cool that I'd written it so I expected that if I were to show it to a non-friend then I'd just get the response, "it's crap". To me though, I didn't see crap, I saw a creation and had ideas on how to make it less crap in the future. I guess that was my first end-user experience. They don't care about how cool it is to write assembly at 12 years old or the fact that it took two months to put together, they wanted game-play and it was crap.

Believe in what you're doing, don't produce something with the sole intention of hearing people say "cool" and don't let anyone dint your pride and if the concensus is that it is crap then learn from it and make it less crap next time.

@Matt: There are kids your age hanging around on street corners causing trouble and just wasting their life. Everytime I see them I get slight annoyed. Admiration that you're doign something creative my friend and a slight wish that I was your age again. :)

#20 Interesting post and some comments. I think you will find if you are working on a small project with a few team members that at that level you will need to contribute something more than keeping everyone organized and communicating with each other. While it is a very important role, you will find that the other members will eventually start to gravitate toward those who are producing the art or the programming as the reality of the situation is they are essential to the project and are at any level. Either way, sounds like some solid experience that most of us were not getting when we were your age. I had Internet class without the Internet (but it was the mid/late 90s and did get to see the internet before advertising and destroy people's machines with Java) and I am still relatively young compared to some others here :-).

As others have said, you will have critics and most have no clue what kind of work it takes to make a game. They are use to playing all of the AAA games out there and for some reason forget it takes millions of dollars and large staffs to produce a game like that. Even as an indie you can get a small group together and make an interesting game.