Open Source TGE: Sooner rather than later

#41

Quote:
TGE has lived a long and prosper life. Let it rest in peace.

It will live on guys, sorry for whoever thinks TGE is dead...
I only hope to make you jealous when they see what a 5-year old $150 engine can do.

Quote:
If the engine no longer interests you, why post negative comments when the topic at hand clearly doesn't apply to you?

Thank You.

#42 Hell at this point, This is the most motivation I've gotten all month to make my project stand out beyond TGEA and T3D.

So Thanks to all you haters, but your really gonna hate me soon. >:)

#43 @CSMP -

Quote:I only hope to make you jealous when they see what a 5-year old $150 engine can do

I'm still impressed by Apparatus' environment pack running in its old TGE demo, still looks gorgeous (ok I know his texture sourcing was sometimes a bit suss but he did some amazing work).

@James -

Quote:Go play with Ogre3D.

I think you meant that in a derogatory manner but its not a bad suggestion if TGE goes open source, how about TGE + Ogre3D, could be pretty awesome. I know there are people here that have worked on this in the past but I don't think anything was released because of the (then) incompatible licenses.

#44

Quote:
I'm still impressed by Apparatus' environment pack running in its old TGE demo

One of many good examples, everyone thats flaming TGE seems to have forgotten about those, but instead were supposed to "Go play with Ogre3D."

I spent my money because I felt comfortable with TGE and its tools.

It may have been awhile since TGE has been showcased in all its glory (plus modern hardware) but there are still some of us that are working on doing that exact thing.

#45 I say just make the demo's of TGE and TGEA open all the time and forget the sorce with those engines as its not worth building games with them anymore. They can still makes games without sorce just not good ones it will just be engines to get used to GG Torque code and to see if they want to spend the money for T3D to make a game or not.

#46 Open source TGE definitely gets my YES vote.
Its definitely something I would like to get involved with at some point in the future, once current projects are more complete.
I agree with Josh that an official statement would be nice. It would also be nice to have an official statement on the open source rumours about TGEA, just to clarify the situation for people who are now wondering whether to upgrade before Nov 1 or wait for an open source version.

#47 I *highly* doubt there'll be an open source TGEA anytime soon if ever... I also doubt there are more than a handful of people wondering if they should quick buy TGEA before it is discontinued on the 1st

Why I believe a commitment to an open source TGE is important is that I don't want the will to be there, but have it fall through the "priority cracks". This is also why I repeatedly offer my help...

It is a very popular idea, I believe we'll see it happen.

GG staff is insanely busy right now. This is currently, understandably, low priority.

#48 Second Life opened up a version of their code to open source. Now OpenGrid threatens their business as a several competitors sprung up over the last 2 years using it. If GG does the same, what's to keep others from doing the same which might cause GG to have some issues. There is already enough middle tier companies out there.

#49 I'd be more than willing to lend a helping hand, eye, or mind (as well as time) in keeping TGE maintained. I personally still feel that it's a very viable product despite the lack of the uber tools and shininess of current Torque tech -- there are even still a few things that TGE can do that TGEa or Torque cannot :D

Competition? Drawing GarageGames resources away from the flagship product? Not hardly. This wold be a means for the community that will not or can not make the switch, and also for the hobbyists out there, to have a chance to continue with Torque.

So instead of the detractors and nay-sayers using this thread as a vehicle for argument it, how about if more people tried discussing how such a thing could work?

I had originally intended that the FPS Genre Kit work that I've done in Torque3D would be a resource for TGE, this would be a chance for this (and other things) to still happen. There are still quite a few people working with TGE and doing awesome things with it -- this is a chance for everyone (new/old community) to still have their cake and eat it too :D

#50

Quote:
Second Life opened up a version of their code to open source. Now OpenGrid threatens their business as a several competitors sprung up over the last 2 years using it.

We actually had one of the Second Life engineers who was a part of their open sourcing effort work here at GarageGames for a while. When the last major round of discussions about open sourcing TGE came up she was actually the first to warn us that there is no such thing as zero costs to the company who is opening up their product.

#51 Josh -

Quote:I *highly* doubt there'll be an open source TGEA anytime soon if ever...

That's what I expected, I think the waters were muddied a bit because the original announcement that it was being considered was in response to a question about both engines.

Quote:I also doubt there are more than a handful of people wondering if they should quick buy TGEA before it is discontinued on the 1st

Also true I guess, but one of that handful is the creative dictator on our project so I just wanted things clarifying.

Thanks

#52 BTW

...thought of a cool name for OS TGE + Ogre3D: TOGRE3D
;-)

#53 I don't think anything worthwhile or beneficial comes at "zero cost" or "zero work". I think this is a common misconception/expectation. I would never promote such an idea. I am quite sure the visionaries at Linden Labs understood this quite well... as do the folks at Google, Novell, Microsoft, Nokia, where promoting open source is now mainstream.

I am not sure that the Linden Labs *owned* OpenGrid compares... as we're talking about TGE and not current generation here. However, I can pretty much guarantee that Linden Labs would make the exact same decisions today. They have an amazing amount of mindshare on their stuff.

From August regarding Q2 for Second Life:

Quote:
USD 144 million dollars in total user-to-user transactions, an increase of 94% from the same quarter last year

In Q2 2009, Second Life Residents enjoyed the sixth consecutive quarter of record growth and activity in the in-world economy.

At nearly USD 50M per month in user-to-user transactions, the Second Life economy is now on a annual run rate north of half a billion US dollars, making Second Life the largest virtual economy in the industry

Voice minutes totaled 3.2 billion minutes, up 48% from the same quarter last year

A real world example: I open sourced the MMO Kit. It was a crazy amount of work writing it and then getting it into a releasable/maintainable form. Definitely not "zero cost" or "zero work". I haven't done anything on the kit now in years... though, it is alive and well because it is OS under a good license... and now there is a Torque 3D version in the works and getting ready for release.

I bet that means some Torque 3D licenses... not to mention the number of people who have looked at TGE/TGEA/Torque 3D because of word spreading about the kit. I am not saying it is huge or a magic bullet or anything, but it helps... I just want to help make this happen and address any FUD around it :)

#54 Oh I know you are personally very much aware of the cost of open sourcing something Josh =)

I think it is awesome that you are willing to take on some/all of the burden of open sourcing the older versions of Torque and that definitely helps to make the decisions easier.

I was just addressing the large number of comments I have seen on this subject about how this is a "free" win for GarageGames.

#55 @MattF: Totally, a "free" win doesn't quite cover it :) I get worried when a comment from you could be read as being "against" doing this... your opinion is (obviously) really important! BTW, I was kind of drafting as I went on the follow up there... just sharpening my blade if I have to fight for it happening ;)

#56 In fact, if you look at the Josh's profile picture, he have been training hard waiting for this moment.

#57 How about this, $19.99 for TGE and $49.99 for TGEA, until everyone who has paid for TGE and TGEA to get their money back or applied towards T3D. Free....WHAT THE, where were you people when I needed it free???

#58 I own TGE and I think helping the original (and still good) codebase live on is a great thing. I don't see it as a FREE vs. not FREE thing. It's more about respecting something that, for lack of a better reference, has a soul. TGE deserves to live on.

OS has a way of changing things. If the destiny of TGE is demise. OS will still allow that to happen if it's meant to be.

My vote is go for it! TGE deserves a shot at moving into the next life - not being forgotten in SVN and eventually SVNDelete(d).