A Person Learns Game Development 5
by J L · 04/27/2009 (7:38 am) · 10 comments
Well, what can I say, it is going to be a big day for me today and tomorrow, I go for my Official GED test..... 4 hours each day. But I think I can do this. Anyway on to the good stuff.
On advise I took from a few people who I can't disclose names as I promised not to I was able to get a lot of stuff done. I have MACK in running around with the help of CSK I can play a decent BF2 clone, BUT I want more and under advisement from these people I think it can be done. Killer Kork resource is in and I just about got him whipped into shape. It took a beating getting him in with the way the CSK had theyre stuff scripted in.
Discovered that most of the stuff from CSK is written client side and not server side. Now if your making a SP game that is fine, but not for MP, to many chances of hacking and cheating. See my first blog for my rule... NEVER TRUST THE CLIENT..........NEVER. So if you are thinking of releasing a genre kit, be sure to do 2 releases or state that your code and/or script is strictly server side or client side. Remember just because you are uber at coding does not mean the people who purchase your packs are. More products with great support means more money
Reviews
The RRGTS Combo Pack
What can I say it is a very good pack, the only real disappointments is that most of the buildings are not hollowed which makes it a pain to do interiors with. Wish they would have done more interior buildings at least 5, but for the price it was a good bargain. Making a mission with these buildings are very good for extra scenery. They do have an auto garage that is pretty good of an interior. Some of the shapes will need to be scaled to fit your style but not by much. They do include a city block made up already and you can drop some buildings on that city block and spiff it up a bit.
The RRGTS Combo Pack gets a 4 / 5
Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack
Very nice pack, if you are wandering what your next investment should be, then this should be it. for $29.95 you get a ton of trees, weeds, plants, and more. I think RRGTS really put theyre heart into this pack. If I had to make a choice between the RRGTS Combo Pack and the Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack I would choose the Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack just because it is more finer work from RRGTS. The LOD is great looking and I can't see why anyone would not spend $29.95 for it.
The Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack gets 4.5 / 5
On advise I took from a few people who I can't disclose names as I promised not to I was able to get a lot of stuff done. I have MACK in running around with the help of CSK I can play a decent BF2 clone, BUT I want more and under advisement from these people I think it can be done. Killer Kork resource is in and I just about got him whipped into shape. It took a beating getting him in with the way the CSK had theyre stuff scripted in.
Discovered that most of the stuff from CSK is written client side and not server side. Now if your making a SP game that is fine, but not for MP, to many chances of hacking and cheating. See my first blog for my rule... NEVER TRUST THE CLIENT..........NEVER. So if you are thinking of releasing a genre kit, be sure to do 2 releases or state that your code and/or script is strictly server side or client side. Remember just because you are uber at coding does not mean the people who purchase your packs are. More products with great support means more money
Reviews
The RRGTS Combo Pack
What can I say it is a very good pack, the only real disappointments is that most of the buildings are not hollowed which makes it a pain to do interiors with. Wish they would have done more interior buildings at least 5, but for the price it was a good bargain. Making a mission with these buildings are very good for extra scenery. They do have an auto garage that is pretty good of an interior. Some of the shapes will need to be scaled to fit your style but not by much. They do include a city block made up already and you can drop some buildings on that city block and spiff it up a bit.
The RRGTS Combo Pack gets a 4 / 5
Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack
Very nice pack, if you are wandering what your next investment should be, then this should be it. for $29.95 you get a ton of trees, weeds, plants, and more. I think RRGTS really put theyre heart into this pack. If I had to make a choice between the RRGTS Combo Pack and the Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack I would choose the Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack just because it is more finer work from RRGTS. The LOD is great looking and I can't see why anyone would not spend $29.95 for it.
The Sticks and Twigs Environment Pack gets 4.5 / 5
#2
I'm digging your desire to review the products here, but I think a little bit of personal bias might have crept into the comments for that one.
So the RRGTS Combo Pack contains Interiors without "interiors"? Hmm, good to know that. I've eyed that Sticks and Twigs thing a few times, but in the end decided on a L-type generation method instead of a pack.
Luck with the GED!
04/28/2009 (10:00 am)
It had been my experience that the CSK worked really well across the network. All (most) of that "client-side stuff" that I think you noticed is GUI related, and that is none of the server's business, except to tell the client when it needs to display something. I'm digging your desire to review the products here, but I think a little bit of personal bias might have crept into the comments for that one.
So the RRGTS Combo Pack contains Interiors without "interiors"? Hmm, good to know that. I've eyed that Sticks and Twigs thing a few times, but in the end decided on a L-type generation method instead of a pack.
Luck with the GED!
#4
I found that thing about a year ago after I had read that the guys at RRGTS used something like TreeMagik & PlantLife to create their trees and foliage so that made me curious and I started looking for something cheap to generate trees with -- I'm just trying to stay away from content packs and kits for my own game -- and I found boatloads of them! I've recently started usingTreeGenerator. I'm not sure about the commercial use of TG's free version (1.2) but you can get a license for the 2.0 version for $50.
04/28/2009 (3:59 pm)
@Steve: oops, that's what happens when posting before the coffee is done brewing ;) I meant to say L-system type generation, it's useful for procedurally generating foliage of all types. There's a sgTree L-system Tree generator object resource that took some wrenching to get working in TGE 1.5.2, and I was about halfway done with porting it to TGEa (shapes and collisions but no textures or lighting!) when my comp blew up. Lately I've been working with Torque 3D and the FPS kit, but one of these days...I found that thing about a year ago after I had read that the guys at RRGTS used something like TreeMagik & PlantLife to create their trees and foliage so that made me curious and I started looking for something cheap to generate trees with -- I'm just trying to stay away from content packs and kits for my own game -- and I found boatloads of them! I've recently started usingTreeGenerator. I'm not sure about the commercial use of TG's free version (1.2) but you can get a license for the 2.0 version for $50.
#5
I'd seen the aliencodec site and a few other tree/plant generators, though haven't actually tried any.
Cheers for the links, all very interesting.
04/28/2009 (6:09 pm)
Ah! I think I came across the idea of this a bit back when I was looking for info on tree/plant structure after my first modeling attempts were ... awful. Someone had posted tips in a modeling forum about a rough branch division rule/system but they didn't have a name for it.I'd seen the aliencodec site and a few other tree/plant generators, though haven't actually tried any.
Cheers for the links, all very interesting.
#6
04/28/2009 (7:08 pm)
Honestly I was not being biased on that statement, that was what was told to me, if it is not true please elaborate so I can learn from both sides. 
#7
Appreciate the reviews. I agree with what others have noted before and wish GG would return the review section back to the Product Section, really helpful for all. Maybe in a later update to the GG site.
@Michael H.
I understand it would be nice, but wouldn't happen at this price. =)
Thanks again, J-Man, and good luck to all in your projects!
Alan
04/28/2009 (7:12 pm)
@J-ManAppreciate the reviews. I agree with what others have noted before and wish GG would return the review section back to the Product Section, really helpful for all. Maybe in a later update to the GG site.
@Michael H.
Quote:So the RRGTS Combo Pack contains Interiors without "interiors"?As far as I can remember, the Packs have never been represented as "interiors" but merely buidings. The buildings that do include interiors (mostly in the Warehouse District Portion of the Pack) screens were included, beyond that, I'm fairly sure that interiors were never implied.
I understand it would be nice, but wouldn't happen at this price. =)
Thanks again, J-Man, and good luck to all in your projects!
Alan
#8
04/29/2009 (10:07 am)
Alan, they never was represented, I aint that good at reviews so I miss putting stuff in that until someone points it out I have to go back and print a retraction of sorts. That was a statement from me that was never intended to sound that way.
#9
04/29/2009 (12:15 pm)
@Alan, yeah I didn't mean to imply any misrepresentation either, I was just keying in on J-Man's statement about the buildings not being hollowed making it more difficult to allow interiors in the Interior format. I never looked into that pack since it's art direction was not suited to me, no offense meant because they do look nice. But I would be curious as to why you chose the .dif format instead of .dts for what is essentially a facade style building. It's been my experience and others that .dts objects give much better performance in that situation especially in TGEa, and the only real benefit of .dif objects is the zoning and portaling which isn't really a factor if you don't have an interior.
#10
No need at all to change the review, stating what would be nice to have but wasn't included is definitely not inaccurate, just your opinion and a fair one. I think the review was more than fair, keep them up!
@Michael H.
Sorry if I came off defensive, six days in Chicago will do that to anyone. =) No offense taken, and I appologize for coming across, let's just say tense...
The choice of .dif over .dts has more to do with the development time frame more than anything else. These models were originally done before TGEA even had come out of Early Adopter, and so .dts would have required collision meshes and the lighting was (and imo still has)issues in comparison to .dif objects. Now it's not so much of an issue, but there still are lighting issues, decals, collision abnormalities that I've run into occasionally with .dts objects and polysoup, but .dif are rock solid on lighting, collision, decals and such. All of the models are also in .obj format in the pack, so I will probably be converting them at some point to collada and or .dts (they actually covert fairly easily, the problem is that at least in the MS3D exporter, I end up with about sixty or seventy mesh names and each one has to manually be renamed to prevent duplicates and to correct the LOD naming structure).
Regarding performance, as long as you keep your poly count in perspective, and LOD your .difs the differences are not outrageous. The final reason is I'm really an old school HL modder and I just "get" BSP based editors, and mesh UV mapping was devised by a evil demonic minion from the seventh level of hell.
Alan
04/29/2009 (4:09 pm)
@J-Man,No need at all to change the review, stating what would be nice to have but wasn't included is definitely not inaccurate, just your opinion and a fair one. I think the review was more than fair, keep them up!
@Michael H.
Sorry if I came off defensive, six days in Chicago will do that to anyone. =) No offense taken, and I appologize for coming across, let's just say tense...
The choice of .dif over .dts has more to do with the development time frame more than anything else. These models were originally done before TGEA even had come out of Early Adopter, and so .dts would have required collision meshes and the lighting was (and imo still has)issues in comparison to .dif objects. Now it's not so much of an issue, but there still are lighting issues, decals, collision abnormalities that I've run into occasionally with .dts objects and polysoup, but .dif are rock solid on lighting, collision, decals and such. All of the models are also in .obj format in the pack, so I will probably be converting them at some point to collada and or .dts (they actually covert fairly easily, the problem is that at least in the MS3D exporter, I end up with about sixty or seventy mesh names and each one has to manually be renamed to prevent duplicates and to correct the LOD naming structure).
Regarding performance, as long as you keep your poly count in perspective, and LOD your .difs the differences are not outrageous. The final reason is I'm really an old school HL modder and I just "get" BSP based editors, and mesh UV mapping was devised by a evil demonic minion from the seventh level of hell.
Alan
Torque Owner Brad Kelley