Torque 3D Development - River & Road Editors
by Brett Seyler · 04/24/2009 (12:56 am) · 124 comments
It's been more than two weeks since the last Torque 3D blog, and I know you guys are antsy to get some hands on time with the Torque 3D beta. We had planned that for this week and we're QA'ing a build over the weekend that may be good to go next week, but I didn't want to wait until then to get you guys some more Torque 3D goodness. I'm sorry I've kept you waiting this long... Okay then, on that note, let's introduce Lara!
Lara's Bio
"I co-founded Prairie Games in 2004 and shipped Minions of Mirth the following year. At Prairie Games, I designed, produced, handled PR/Marketing, ran the office and did whatever else needed doing. In June of this year, I began working at GarageGames. I'm anxiously awaiting the spring release of Gauntlet for the DS. I love buffalo and Buffy the Vampire Slayer!"
"I'm currently working on a series of video tutorials for Torque 3D. The first of this series focuses on the new River and Road Editors. Next I'll be working on tutorials for the Material Editor, and Live Asset Updates."
If you've been watching the GarageGames Vimeo channel, you've probably noticed the fantastic work Lara Engebretson has done to create high quality video tutorials to demonstrate Terrain Editing, using the Collada Loader, and Creating Objects in Torque. Lara's now turning her attention to Torque 3D, and even thought we don't have a beta out yet, we do have two great tutorials to share for using the new River and Road Editors available with the Professional license.
Let's have a look!
The next time I blog, I will be pointing all of you Torque 3D owners to a BETA DOWNLOAD!
More development blogs to come. This is post #17.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3!
- Post #26 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#62
I think that doesn't mean it support unicode chat. That just means it can accept Chinease character. Still it remains to process the input message, and show the text in the GuiTextEditCtrl and GuiMLTextCtrl.
So, please someone, desirably from GG answer for my question.
04/24/2009 (8:19 pm)
@Huan Li,I think that doesn't mean it support unicode chat. That just means it can accept Chinease character. Still it remains to process the input message, and show the text in the GuiTextEditCtrl and GuiMLTextCtrl.
So, please someone, desirably from GG answer for my question.
#63
04/25/2009 (12:05 am)
Starting a part-time hobby/indie game dev project that will use Torque 3D. Looking for additional skilled teammates such as (game programming/code) and (visual art, 3d modeling). If you have serious interest and serious skills, please reply for more info.
#64
U r really a pretty good writer.
My project begun with TGEA, and i have done a number of modification in source code to meet my needs.Now i aim at Torque3D, and decide to transplant my project on It.So these days, no more codes have i wrote. I know i will also make some modification to T3D.If i can get T3D earlier then i can return coding earlier, even if i got a unstable one:)
Of course, a stable one is the best choice.
What ever, I still can wait patiently, So do what you shuold do.I believe that you guys will bring us a fantastic work!
04/25/2009 (2:38 am)
@BrettU r really a pretty good writer.
My project begun with TGEA, and i have done a number of modification in source code to meet my needs.Now i aim at Torque3D, and decide to transplant my project on It.So these days, no more codes have i wrote. I know i will also make some modification to T3D.If i can get T3D earlier then i can return coding earlier, even if i got a unstable one:)
Of course, a stable one is the best choice.
What ever, I still can wait patiently, So do what you shuold do.I believe that you guys will bring us a fantastic work!
#65
I don't know whether i really understand you, but i did chatting using chinese with torque.
just stop our talking, listen to GG :)
Now i think i know what you mean. For example, we can't use unicode in *.cs.
04/25/2009 (2:42 am)
@game4RestI don't know whether i really understand you, but i did chatting using chinese with torque.
just stop our talking, listen to GG :)
Now i think i know what you mean. For example, we can't use unicode in *.cs.
#67
04/25/2009 (12:08 pm)
Really cool editors. But man.. those shadows are atrociously bad.. and I certainly hope it doesn't actually run at that low framerate! 
#68
I'm curious what you don't like about the shadows in there? They look good to me...
And yeah I'm hoping the framerate there is a combination of still pre-beta builds of the engine being unoptimized, and the fact that recording video on a system while rendering can drop framerates a noticeable bit sometimes.
04/25/2009 (3:26 pm)
@HelkI'm curious what you don't like about the shadows in there? They look good to me...
And yeah I'm hoping the framerate there is a combination of still pre-beta builds of the engine being unoptimized, and the fact that recording video on a system while rendering can drop framerates a noticeable bit sometimes.
#69
Also that build was really unoptimized... its one of the more importaint tasks we'll be addressing during the beta period.
04/25/2009 (3:51 pm)
First off on shadows.... what your seeing in the Pacific demo build is how they were a month ago. People will be really happy with the shadows in Torque 3D. :)Also that build was really unoptimized... its one of the more importaint tasks we'll be addressing during the beta period.
#70
04/25/2009 (5:10 pm)
@Tom: Thanks for the very quick answer - that sounds really great! Sorry for the off-topic question regarding terrain - but I am really looking forward this point: Presently I'm using ATLAS terrains since I need terrain sizes around 10x10 kilometres - as far as I know, ATLAS will be replaced in T3D by some kind of MegaTerrain. Will it still be possible to create very large terrains? And will there be a workflow allowing L3DT terrains to be imported?
#71
As far as size. Torque 3D has a massively revamped TerrainBlock. While it does not tile like the old MegaTerrain, it does allow for much larger heightmap dimensions.
If you use a 1024x1024 height map at a 10 meter per pixel resolution you can get your 10km large terrain without stressing the system. A 2048x2048 would be possible, but i would be concerned about collision performance.
If you want both very high resolution and very large terrain you'll need to either try to merge Atlas back in or extend TerrainBlock to tile. Either solution shouldn't be very hard to do.
04/25/2009 (6:21 pm)
@Tobias - As long as a tool can export a heightmap and opacity layers you can import it into Torque 3D via the gui.As far as size. Torque 3D has a massively revamped TerrainBlock. While it does not tile like the old MegaTerrain, it does allow for much larger heightmap dimensions.
If you use a 1024x1024 height map at a 10 meter per pixel resolution you can get your 10km large terrain without stressing the system. A 2048x2048 would be possible, but i would be concerned about collision performance.
If you want both very high resolution and very large terrain you'll need to either try to merge Atlas back in or extend TerrainBlock to tile. Either solution shouldn't be very hard to do.
#72
What if you wanted to have a river or road that splits into more rivers/roads... Like a brach system for water, or crossroads.
This is a major thing I would like in the new tools. Will it be implemented?
EDIT: Also, I have a terrain question...
Does the terrain still allow seamless loading between terrain files? Like how ATLAS (not sure if it was MegaTerrain) handled?
04/25/2009 (6:25 pm)
I have a question...What if you wanted to have a river or road that splits into more rivers/roads... Like a brach system for water, or crossroads.
This is a major thing I would like in the new tools. Will it be implemented?
EDIT: Also, I have a terrain question...
Does the terrain still allow seamless loading between terrain files? Like how ATLAS (not sure if it was MegaTerrain) handled?
#73
But there are still things you can do to get the effect of, say, a 'y' split in a river. Line a second river up and hide the connection with a piece of custom geometry that looks like a little waterfall, for example.
04/25/2009 (11:44 pm)
Rivers/Roads do not support branching. It would be cool, and it is something we considered, but you know, time. But there are still things you can do to get the effect of, say, a 'y' split in a river. Line a second river up and hide the connection with a piece of custom geometry that looks like a little waterfall, for example.
#74
2) Do you have any examples of an asphalt road? I'd really like to see how the edges of roads are handled.
3) Do the roads support overlapping roads? Intersections? Let's say I've got an asphalt road, a dirt path, at a standard 4 way intersection, which texture gets rendered over which? Or do I have to manually make 3 roads, one which goes all the way through, and then the other which is made up of two segments left and right?
4) This has to go with the above question, but let's say I make a dirt road which is just gravel, I take a texture which repeats well, and then on top of this I want to lay another road with a detail texture, is this possible?
04/26/2009 (9:51 am)
1) How well does the river handle the transition into other water blocks and water planes? For example, if you've got an island map, and you want a river to run from the center to the ocean.2) Do you have any examples of an asphalt road? I'd really like to see how the edges of roads are handled.
3) Do the roads support overlapping roads? Intersections? Let's say I've got an asphalt road, a dirt path, at a standard 4 way intersection, which texture gets rendered over which? Or do I have to manually make 3 roads, one which goes all the way through, and then the other which is made up of two segments left and right?
4) This has to go with the above question, but let's say I make a dirt road which is just gravel, I take a texture which repeats well, and then on top of this I want to lay another road with a detail texture, is this possible?
#75
Question: Does T3d come out of the box ready with the wind on the trees thingy shown in the PD you showed off at GDC? or will this be an extra addon later and roughly how much would it cost if so? I was impressed at how easy it is to drop trees in and how they sway was amazingly real. I also enjoyed the grenade throwing and how it affects the area around the exploding area. Thanks for any info you might be able to give.
Will
dlstorminc@yahoo.com
04/26/2009 (2:21 pm)
@ Tom:Question: Does T3d come out of the box ready with the wind on the trees thingy shown in the PD you showed off at GDC? or will this be an extra addon later and roughly how much would it cost if so? I was impressed at how easy it is to drop trees in and how they sway was amazingly real. I also enjoyed the grenade throwing and how it affects the area around the exploding area. Thanks for any info you might be able to give.
Will
dlstorminc@yahoo.com
#76
04/26/2009 (2:52 pm)
@Will - At the moment the ForestKit is a separate product.
#77
1. It doesn't, I would recommend handling this with a custom piece of geometry.
2. I don't have the art for that, what were you wondering?
3. At the moment, overlapping roads cause a lot of z-fighting, but the idea is to have a F32 render priority that you can set per road. Then if two roads (with different priorities) intersect each other, one will render under the other. But, if you have a curb in the road's texture, or a texture with an obvious pattern, intersections or overlaps are not going to look very good.
4. Roads render using a Material, not just a single texture. So you can have bump maps, normal maps, detail textures, everything that Material supports.
04/26/2009 (2:58 pm)
@TimDix1. It doesn't, I would recommend handling this with a custom piece of geometry.
2. I don't have the art for that, what were you wondering?
3. At the moment, overlapping roads cause a lot of z-fighting, but the idea is to have a F32 render priority that you can set per road. Then if two roads (with different priorities) intersect each other, one will render under the other. But, if you have a curb in the road's texture, or a texture with an obvious pattern, intersections or overlaps are not going to look very good.
4. Roads render using a Material, not just a single texture. So you can have bump maps, normal maps, detail textures, everything that Material supports.
#78
So what you see on the roads and rivers are materials, which opens up a whole world of cusomization.
04/26/2009 (3:07 pm)
James brings up a good point. Now is a good time to really start separating terminology, as I am going to be doing in the documentation. I'll rarely use the term "texture" except referring to the actual image files. Everything I've used so far in the World Editor docs is a Material: Skybox, water surface, even what is painted on the Terrain. This is why having a Material Editor is so important.So what you see on the roads and rivers are materials, which opens up a whole world of cusomization.
#79
There's almost always a workaround to any problem.
04/26/2009 (3:36 pm)
They'll be a way to get intersections, crossroads and the sort, even if it just requires smoke and mirrors to manually align a few individual elements.There's almost always a workaround to any problem.
#80
2) The video makes it look like the road is blended with the terrain, I wanted to know if the 'road' system, can actually make something like common asphalt roads, or if it's only capable of dirt paths. I'd love to take a look at a close up screen shot of the transition from terrain to road, when the road contrasted more sharply than the above video shows.
3) Yeah, I had a feeling that might be the case.
4) What I was interested in would not be multiple textures on the same road, but actually two separate roads layered on top of each other where one road would use a material had a texture like tire tracks, which could be laid over top of a dirt road, asphalt road, ect.
04/26/2009 (3:52 pm)
1) Kinda hard to fake the transition from a river to a lake with geometry, unless you're going for a damned up river, or waterfall.2) The video makes it look like the road is blended with the terrain, I wanted to know if the 'road' system, can actually make something like common asphalt roads, or if it's only capable of dirt paths. I'd love to take a look at a close up screen shot of the transition from terrain to road, when the road contrasted more sharply than the above video shows.
3) Yeah, I had a feeling that might be the case.
4) What I was interested in would not be multiple textures on the same road, but actually two separate roads layered on top of each other where one road would use a material had a texture like tire tracks, which could be laid over top of a dirt road, asphalt road, ect.
Torque 3D Owner Huan Li
Hi, I'm not from GG, but i may answer ur question that TGE/A has already supported unicode chatting.
I don't know whether this post will help u some:
http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16397