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Tris Versus Textures

by Steve Acaster · 04/15/2009 (11:25 am) · 30 comments

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (these forums), someone (probably Matt Fairfax) made a post on the forums or in a blog which gave the memory useage for various texture sizes. I noted that useage did not double with size, but was on a much more aggressive scale. Thus 1024x gave a lot more of a kicking to Vram than two 512x.

So, town2 version (counts on fingers) er ... 4? is done. It's a polysouped DTS, with all of the buildings enterable. No facades this time. The 2 storey facade textures (1024x) have been ditched in favour of standard 512x brickwork textures (which the facades were previously based on and had been used around the map for low walls). All doors and windows are now modeled, and are proper openings. All buildings are now fully enterable and made up of multiple rooms. Each building has at least one staircase, large buildings have two. Access to and from upstairs is granted. Access through all buildings now exists.

img150.imageshack.us/img150/3848/housetypes1.jpg
Prefab houses

There are currently 6 building types being used as prefabs, with a couple of custom ones (eg: church and chapel - church is still a facade, the only one left). All have at least one front and back external door, a minumum of 8 windows and 7 rooms. All have at least one staircase.

There are 50 buildings in the village. That's 641 windows, 180 external doors, 578 rooms, with 81 staircases, all linked, all useable, all explorable. I didn't count how many internal doors there were, but obviously they are what seperate the rooms so work it out (it might even be the same number as the rooms).

Needless to say this has affected the tris slightly. Tris now stands at around 48k up from 15k. And it's also affected performance - for the better.

img523.imageshack.us/img523/1717/townwindow1.jpg
From all closed facades to 1399-ish openings for view and movement

Previously, with most of my Vcard (256mb 7900GS) settings on "performance" with x2 AA and Anisotropic OFF and display on x768, I was recording 165fps with the polysouped, facade mesh.

Dispensing of the services of the 1024x facade textures, and increasing the polysouped mesh by over 500%, I get the following results.

New Vcard settings are "quality" including x2 anistropic and AA. At x768 it gives a whopping 196fps, and at x1050 it gives an equally impressive 127fps.

I did have a few issues with exporting the DTS. I had to split the model into 6 seperate meshes, as together they exceeded the max vertices count. But as seperate meshes within the same DTS model they exported fine. This is DTS only, I don't have a DIF version of this... err ... town version.

img523.imageshack.us/img523/962/townwindow2.jpg
There's lots more opportunites to worry about being ambushed. 1399 of them

So, point proven on Vram and texture size against tris count. This was conducted on TGEA1.7.1, 1.8.1 would probably gain more of a performance boost (maybe 10%). How this will work with T3D lighting system remains to be seen, but I'd be quietly hopeful that all will be well.

In the meantime I have a Campaign for Real Ale Festival to go to, the last refuge of Saint George Flag waving, folk singing, Morris Dancing, sandal wearing, unkempt beardies who have a deep understanding of the different forms of droppings excreted by the monstrous badger of doom.

BADGER_OF_DOOM is also the current codename for my project - it's not just the 3A studios that can make up stupid codenames for games still in development, so can one guy working away in his bedroom

God save England, 'arry and Saint George!
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#21
04/15/2009 (7:41 pm)
try the unsigned 8.8.8.8 ARGB option on the exporter, seems the most reliable sofar for me, havent had any issues with the alpha channel and looks to be the one that keeps the detail without any banding happening either.
#22
04/15/2009 (8:37 pm)
I really enjoy your blogs! This city is looking great, make more!
#23
04/16/2009 (4:20 am)
Quote:
try the unsigned 8.8.8.8 ARGB option on the exporter, seems the most reliable sofar for me

That's because it's uncompressed, just like PNG/BMP.

8.8.8.8 ARGB is not DXT, and you're not saving any space in VRAM by using it. It only loads faster (if you put mips into it) and it's much larger to store on disk.
#24
04/16/2009 (6:43 am)
yeah has mips saved, using the alpha channel for the specular map, which couldnt be done with the DXT5 compression, as it screwed up the alpha channel every export...
#25
04/16/2009 (7:42 am)
well yeah i know that the term uvmapping does not apply to Dif/BSP based objects. it is just the term i use.

Messing around with scale and position numbers to the n'th decimal place sucks when your going for a particular look and feel. 15 minutes messing around with this when i can do the same thing in UV mapping in lightwave in a few seconds.

seems like a waste of valuable development time when performance on dts/polysoup based interiors is pretty darn good if your careful and smart with your texture files.

i do realize though that there is a few things your losing when you go with DTS rather than DIF, like portaling, and some of the BSP lighting features. Which is why i am still testing dts. I may still go back and use DIF. I just have to have patience when using the tools. They frustrate me quite a bit with the way some of the tools actually work.

What i am probably going to end up doing is a balance between DIF and DTS interiors.
---
I still have to go back and work my texture files down to 512x as most of them are still at 1024x at the moment which is hurting my game performance quite a bit.
#26
04/17/2009 (3:57 pm)
Lord, I see the light!, now i understand why someone say that is better use 512x textures...

GG maybe need a seccion called "Tips" but with the reason for we can understand...
#27
04/19/2009 (9:26 pm)
Just had a thought... what happens when you turn on precipitation? Can you run inside and stay dry?
#28
04/19/2009 (9:29 pm)
@Michael - The existing TGEA precipitation uses raycasts... so in theory it should work.

That said... i really hope to get a chance to create a new precipitation object for Torque 3D. Just so many other things to do.
#29
04/19/2009 (9:57 pm)
@Tom: I was just playing around with AI in the Undercity level when I had that thought and it resulted in "drippy" sewers. I see the dropHitMask, would that require a different type for polysouped objects?

A new precipitation object? -- that would be cool -- actually I was just looking at the precipitation code and noticed that it looks like it could do a few things I hadn't known about, but then I hadn't actually used any precipitation effects since TGE.
#30
04/20/2009 (1:15 pm)
Of course if you want to cheat on "drippy sewers" you could use a transparent animated texture object (with no collision obvisouly). It'd save on performance.
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