A new Game Engine in the works

#1 Anthony:

Good luck with your new engine. Lucky for everyone that there is always a market for a new game engine, not any one is perfect by any means. Garage Games always has had decent pricing for their products, at least I think so. If your looking for something less pricey you might want to look into other engines. There are enough game engines to make a game on now then ever before. I disagree. The price point Garage Games has yet to set (at least I don't know of it but have heard it could run into the $1,000 range) is well worth every penny compared to other engines in it's class such as ID Tech, Epic's Unreal 3 and even Source.

I think if your not willing to put in the money for T3D then making your own engine is a good deal but remember, building a better mouse trap is a major undertaking. Will you be using Torque Tech for your engine? If so, you might want to talk to GG about leasing their source for your project to sell it legally. If your still happy in making your own engine, I wish you the best on the project. I hope it works out for you and look forward to checking out some vids or screens of the progress in the coming weeks, months and years.

As far as Garage Games, I continue to use their products, and enjoy doing so. I doubt anything or engine can sway me from moving from their line of good products. I've been happy with them for years now and own a major chunk of their content packs, Engines and other do dads that they release cause they have a good, stable marketpplace for it all. To me, T3D is by far more advanced then the Unreal Engine, and is easier to use and make games from. But that's only my 2 cents worth.

Again, good luck with your project/engine and hope it goes well. Will be watching the updates.

Will Zettler
will_zettler@dlsstudio.com
http://www.dlsstudio.com
Waskom, Tx
St Louis, MO

#2 I think its great the amount of game engines that are available to indie game developers I have been using Torque for a little while now and have looked at many other game engines but none seem to be quite as good as it but if you can come close to T3D with a more Indie friendly price I would defenitely Invest some money into it!

I wish you and your team The best of luck as you venture into this journey! Hope to hear more about it soon!

P.S Whats it going to be called?

#3 What mesh format will you use for static models/Collision or will
you wright your own.

#4 I'm with Will on this one. This is going to cost you more time and money that what you'd have to cash out for T3D, but you probably know that.

Anyway, here are a few questions:

Have you thought about what scripting language you'll prepare?
Details on the scenegraph?
Lighting, shadows?
How do you plan to beat the networking side of Torque?
What objects will you be able to load into the engine?
Who are you going to stay compatible with to gain users from other engines to actually make money to make it all worth your time?
Are you going to concentrate on one genre, are you creating a frame, or an all-in-one solution like I suspect you would?
What will your solution be for terrains?
What are your plans on the art pipeline and the tools needed?
How deep will your physics layer be?
What platforms will you provide a solution for?
Do you have all these platforms at your disposal right now?
What do you think about modularity?
What does "no set player limit" mean as a multiplayer feature? :)
What tech are you planning to use to stay platform-independent for your browser plugin?

Why don't you expand your own version of TGEA instead? You'd have a much better chance of succeeding. I have a feeling that this thing you are taking on will last for several years if you ever finish, but I really don't think you are serious.

So.. seeing is believing. :) Until then, I think you're just a bit frustrated, and want to get attention to your frustration - which is perfectly understandable imho. But, I beg you to prove me wrong!

I wrote my master server within a few hours. A master server is not a feature in a game engine. It's just some really simple script that says "hello", "this is my stamp collection", and "gotcha". Nor are all the eye candies, really, but that's only my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, but I never saw your AI pack come to life - the one that you promised 4 years ago. If an AI pack takes that much time, how are you going to solve the aging issue?

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, (I'm also a bit tired,) but at the same time I'm trying to be objective, really.

I wish you good luck!

#5 Quick question: Do you have a site and its own blog section for your project yet? While not every blog is geared toward Torque, this space is reserved for GarageGames community members, most of which are using Torque for their projects.

Side projects not Torque related are interesting and welcome, especially if they are hobbyist or Indie based. Pimping a competitive engine is stretching the boundaries, though.

#6 Thanks for the comments, and I can quickly clear up a couple things which should help you guys get a better understanding.

Since this is a GarageGames blog, I am NOT going to post links, only a screenshot here and there while we get closer to that milestone. When I first joined GG it was less about Torque itself and more about the independent community. Obviously I own many licenses to GG products and have been a member of this community for quite some time (I rarely need to post, since my days at Gensis3D I have mastered the forum search :-p). I'm not trying to justify pimping a competitive engine, but justify that I am in fact a community member and have been for a while. Like I said, I will at minimum keep all links to our project off my profile here and wont link in any blog post either. Also, I am purposely omitting the name of the Game Engine and am referring to it only as Game Engine, just so you guys (the community) know.

As far as myself owning T3D. I may end up doing that, our project isn't a way for us to get off not paying for the proper tools, it is actually aimed to be just what it is, a game engine with more specific features. Ultimately we would like to release a small title as well, but that is besides the point in this regard.

As far as trying to be a one size fits all engine, it is geared toward allowing a scriptable (python style) system so that you can do many things with it. But looking at what is out there, we are doing our best to include things like AI, Matchmaking, Browser Plugin etc. And will try to build onto it as time goes by.

My original goal was to release the AI side of our project as a resource for Torque, but every time I get the time to do it, there is some new project in the GG pipeline that I need to wait for. I once T3D is out I may switch it over.

Also, to answer the question about using Torque technology. The answer is no, there is no Torque source or technology used. The game engine does have exporters for 3ds max, maya, collada, etc, so porting over shouldn't be too hard of a problem, but our main goal is not to compete directly with the functionality of other engines, but to plainly develop our own engine to how we believe one should be.

P.S.

If I am going over the line, GG, Please feel free to let me know via email or private message.

#7 Sounds ambitious. Good luck :)

#8 Both Torque Engine's that I have bought (TGE and TGEA) are far worth the bang for the buck, and I'm thank full to GG for their generosity thus far.

I agree making a new engine will be a huge undertaking. I do wish you luck though as most of us here know, making even a portion of a game is mind boggling work at times (let alone a game engine).

#9 Thank you Brett. It was definitely very ambitious when we started, thankfully we are over the "can we even do this?" hump and are faced with a whole new multitude of hurdles that I am sure you are very familiar with.

#10 There seems to be a theme with the comments, I should clear one more thing up.

In no way is this project a way of saying "Torque isn't worth it." If I thought that I wouldn't continue to buy their stuff. It is more of a "We wanted an equally good product that does things a little different" type of thing.

#11 Why not just expand TGEA1.8.1 into what it truly should/could be? If you feel you have the talent and gumption to stick with building a game engine from ground up, you could use that tremendous know how and energy to truly improve on something that is already very decent but could truly use a tad bit extra flash and polish. I know the 'derivative works clause', but you list enough new meat in your first post to easily call it some type of expansion pack. I know alot of people are hesitant to invest much time and effort into TGEA1.8.1 because it falls so short compared to the hype of T3D. It bother me a bit to know that by the time i have TGEA1.8.1 where i like it, T3D will be out and I get to start the full process over once again. Knowing TGEA1.8.1 had at least one more generation in it would give me alot of confidence to keep working with it. Right now its nothing more then a real cool toy who had alot of promise but only a sadist would look forward to yet another code "PORT". Just my E=mc^2 opinion.

#12 You need to ask yourself: Do you want to make games, or do you want to make game engines? I used to make a competing engine a long time ago, but I realized that I was spending all the time working on the engine itself, and never on the dream game I was wanting to finish. I probably could have worked on both, were I not also working a full time job, but it's just a matter of priorities. What do you want to do?

#13 "...my days at Gensis3D I have mastered the forum search..."

Anthony:

Sounds like you hinted as to what engine your using... Well, just as a side note, if your using Genesis or even RF, they are good beginner engines but you can't compare the engines to TGEA/TGE as the TGEA and TGE alone are far more modern then G3D/D3D but I have to agree with Michael Perry and Konrad on this... why reinvent the wheel? the Tech is here, and it has been proven www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=519871 that TGEA is a leading engine to make games with. do you just have a bias toward the GG family or the engines in general? Hey I admit, when I first got into gaming, I honestly thought I would build a better mousetrap... it never worked and thus I decided it would be better spent on time and money put towards a already done engine...

Thus I bought into TGE at version 1.2 I believe it was many moons ago. I even bought into the other Genesis 3d project that was going to revolutionize the industry... Destiny3D which bombed out of existence. Not saying you can't make a good game with G3d or D3d but what I am saying is that why are you trying to reinvent a wheel that you don't need to? You do come across sounding bias against the Garage Games team and their engines, but your thoughts are your thoughts and no one can take your voice away from you.

Again, good luck on your ambitious venture into a huge abyss of code, time and money. I hope you have deep, very deep pockets. I can't wait to see how your going to pull this off. Oh and btw, why do you not want to share a web site with us and only screen shots you post as you see fit? If you REALLY wanted to show progress, you would have a link to your site, and accept all feedback, both good and bad about your project. Sounds to me like you just have a bias against GG... sorry it sounds harsh but that's how its sounding on this end...

If you truly wanted to show off talents, you would post a web site, not just screen shots. ANYONE, and I have a lot of people to back me on this one... that anyone can create screens of anything and post it saying they have a new game engine or whatnot. It can be faked, and not having a site to post about your work don't help either to prove yourself. If you are going to make an engine and take this kinda job on, you should at least have a web site for those who want to follow your work, progress and build up a fan base. right?

Sounds a lot like smoke and mirrors... sorry to be harsh, but until we see actual shots of your engine, and a web site it will be just that... smoke and mirrors. Good luck on your venture, your going to need it.

Will

#14 I think we all just need to give him a break. If he has been diligently building an engine from the ground up all this time, more power to him. If not.. what's it to any of us. I will say posting your engine on another engine's sight is questionable, but.. meh, if GG has an issue with it at some point I'm sure they will let you know.

#15 Sounds cool, and good luck. Building your own game engine, if nothing else, is a great learning tool in understanding how things all come together.

Maybe you'll surprise us all and come out with a genuinely competitive product, but more likely once you get into the task of bringing everything together, you'll realize that putting together a modern game engine with all elements integrated in a reusably useful way is a beck of a lot harder than the sum of the individual parts. And it will probably help you appreciate Torque a heck of a lot more ;)

Cheers

#16 hmm thats allot of work theres a reason why torque is the way it is its so you can add the stuff you want in it. with your engine we have to ether like what you put in it or have to code it are self's and thats not easy.

torque's code is easy and i just started with torque's code but as it looks so much like html its easy as i know html very very well. i not saying i am pro with here code yet but i know what i am doing already people say its a steep learning carve don't look that way to me though. :P

good luck on your engine i know i will not be waiting for its release or even think of buying it T3D seems perfect and will be far ahead of what your going. the first release of T3D will just be the first release with allot of new things to it. you have to realize if they can add all this new stuff in what ever amount of time the there update will have just that much more stuff added on top of all the stuff in the first release.

all other engines have been worked on slowly as they been going free upgrades now that T3D updates will cost money theres going to be lots of stuff in the new updates from now on. T3D will be the engine everyone will want to work with as it will finally have stuff in it 90-95% of the games can all have. i really don't want Torque to have a AI system but they can if they want but i will more then likely scrap it. i want to do a totally different AI system then what you see in may games maybe it will be the first of its kind. i have played many games and never seen one that i want to add to my first game.

#17 Interesting.

I would like to know what the pricing is. But when its done I will be sure to check it out.

#18 Leave it to Brett to leave a friendly comment instead of putting the ban back in just-another-wishful-want-to-create-an-all-new-game-engine-banter.

#19 @Patrick: Just to be clear, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything. Like Gerald, I think trying to put something as complex as a game engine together is a really good exercise and anyone who gives that a shot will probably appreciate Torque more. It's not that I think success in this effort is impossible. It's not. It's just difficult. Who knows? I'm sure we could learn a thing or two from all of you about how to make Torque better. We're certainly trying :)

#20 Thank you again for the comments.

Had to address the one point: NO, we are NOT using Gensis3D, nor RF. They were fine back in the day, but obviously out-dated in today's world. Not to mention they are engines themselves, what we are doing is not basing it off an already built GAME engine, but utilizing heavily developed and tested tools, and adding to them to create a game engine.

I like the idea of going off of TGEA, the reason we decided not to, is to allow us more freedom both in terms of development and overall direction when we are done.

I completely understand the advice and the warnings, and it's all appreciated. This thread is a good hint to GG, there is a need within the product line, and it seems like they are addressing that with T3D.