Creating the Temple of Tears
by David Mac · 03/14/2009 (12:07 am) · 16 comments
I'm getting a bit bored with the same-ole-same-ole so I decided to switch genre and do something a little fantastic...
The Temple of Tears.
The idea is to create a 3d interior structure that creeps people out. And that's not as easy as it might seem. I spent a whole day online just taking a look at pictures and art that people have posted as "terror" or "horror" "[insert scary terminology here]". I was looking for imagery that struck a chord emotionally with me, something I might find disturbing beyond scantily clad emo or goth models with wrists bound sporting a razor blade... Well... That's scary in it's own right, but not what I was looking for. Slice-n-dice, while it might turn the stomach - doesn't quite hit the nail on the head either.
At any rate, after a long day, I began to piece together some concept art that I hope will inspire some "creep" and or "chill". The concept is a dark temple of sorts with multiple levels, and lots of corridors and rooms for players to explore. The facade will be that of a demonic skull. I'm going to TRY and get a bit artsy and make the 4 towers surrounding it blend with the center structure until you approach them at a certain angle, at which point they will appear to fall away. The structure is being created in MAP/DIF format, so I am limited in my use of angles without kicking the poly count way up. We'll see what happens.
Anyways, below is a screenshot of the concept art and 3d in progress. The textures are works in progress. I've been struggling a bit to transform my vision into the model. The main hurtles being that I can't have the shapes I want, and the UV mapping for MAP/DIFF is a bit primative. So I had to scrap my first run textures to create more traditional textures that are easier to UV map with the MAP/DIF tools I have to work with. There is a very good reason games look like they do!
The other issue I had was with the temple ribs. the 3d rib brushes became distorted on export (one of those "angle" issues I mentioned), even though I used no concave surfaces. I don't dislike the end effect, but it's not what I originally created.
Anyhow, once it is finished up, I'll put it up in our store at www.golemgraphics.net
The Temple of Tears.
The idea is to create a 3d interior structure that creeps people out. And that's not as easy as it might seem. I spent a whole day online just taking a look at pictures and art that people have posted as "terror" or "horror" "[insert scary terminology here]". I was looking for imagery that struck a chord emotionally with me, something I might find disturbing beyond scantily clad emo or goth models with wrists bound sporting a razor blade... Well... That's scary in it's own right, but not what I was looking for. Slice-n-dice, while it might turn the stomach - doesn't quite hit the nail on the head either.
At any rate, after a long day, I began to piece together some concept art that I hope will inspire some "creep" and or "chill". The concept is a dark temple of sorts with multiple levels, and lots of corridors and rooms for players to explore. The facade will be that of a demonic skull. I'm going to TRY and get a bit artsy and make the 4 towers surrounding it blend with the center structure until you approach them at a certain angle, at which point they will appear to fall away. The structure is being created in MAP/DIF format, so I am limited in my use of angles without kicking the poly count way up. We'll see what happens.
Anyways, below is a screenshot of the concept art and 3d in progress. The textures are works in progress. I've been struggling a bit to transform my vision into the model. The main hurtles being that I can't have the shapes I want, and the UV mapping for MAP/DIFF is a bit primative. So I had to scrap my first run textures to create more traditional textures that are easier to UV map with the MAP/DIF tools I have to work with. There is a very good reason games look like they do!
The other issue I had was with the temple ribs. the 3d rib brushes became distorted on export (one of those "angle" issues I mentioned), even though I used no concave surfaces. I don't dislike the end effect, but it's not what I originally created.
Anyhow, once it is finished up, I'll put it up in our store at www.golemgraphics.net
About the author
#2
@David I'm interested to see your finished product, seems like you do pretty good work.
03/14/2009 (2:47 pm)
I felt the emo comments were unnecessary (I mean that's down right unprofessional), with that being said:@David I'm interested to see your finished product, seems like you do pretty good work.
#3
@Caylo, glad you like the work so far. You have nightmares about emo-goth babies??? O_o That's.... Odd?
There are a lot of things I would like to do with the model that my current tools just do not permit. It's a constant fight with them to get even close to what I want, I suppose that "challenge" is part of the lure for me.
While I like the idea, I probably will not add rubble due to polygon economy, and it also restricts the end use to a ruin of sorts and not a current functional structure.
I'm going to TRY lighting this model. The problem there is that my exporter does not scale lights with the rest of the model, and my app, does not scale the whole model well. It uses a snap grid system and if I have any geometry that's really thin, it snaps together and causes a brush error on export. So I either have to have the whole model to scale from the start or not use lights. (And numerous other little technical issues that I won't bore folks with right now).
I have had limited success in the past with porting the model to Constructor and re-positioning the lights there, but if the model is complex, it has some very undesirable effects in Constructor. The last time I tried, the collision mesh disappeared. Lights looked nice though >_>
UV mapping MAP/DIFF objects is a pet peave for me. Many of the low end tools have very poor UV mapping abilities, couple that with textures that are not seamless, and/or poorly tiled, and you have just made even the nicest geometry look like hell. But again, often the artist is limited by the UV tool set of his/her 3d app.
One has the option of exporting the model to .obj or [insert 3d format here], and doing the UV's in UU3d or something good, but I'm not sure hand sorting 3000+ surfaces, figuring what's visible, and what rectangle goes where is worth the time!
The concept art was hand drawn with number 2 pencil on computer paper (yes, my art teachers will shoot me!) then scanned in. The water color effect is a duplicate layer color balanced to red, and then I erased potions of it with a huge brush that caused a nice blur. Made it a little transparent and... Well, there you have it.
Thanks for the comments!
03/14/2009 (4:36 pm)
Lol Scott! I wasn't attacking emo, or goth, or even goth-emo. Seriously, go search a photo or art site for terror and horror and see what pops up. How is some half-naked girl in heavy makeup terror or horror? The irony is self implied. xD I suppose I'll have to take that politically incorrect hit to voice my point there. But I was experiencing a bit of frustration not finding what I was looking for. I think one has to have a sense of humor about it. If your comment was directed at Caylo's remark, then you can just ignore my response here. ;] @Caylo, glad you like the work so far. You have nightmares about emo-goth babies??? O_o That's.... Odd?
There are a lot of things I would like to do with the model that my current tools just do not permit. It's a constant fight with them to get even close to what I want, I suppose that "challenge" is part of the lure for me.
While I like the idea, I probably will not add rubble due to polygon economy, and it also restricts the end use to a ruin of sorts and not a current functional structure.
I'm going to TRY lighting this model. The problem there is that my exporter does not scale lights with the rest of the model, and my app, does not scale the whole model well. It uses a snap grid system and if I have any geometry that's really thin, it snaps together and causes a brush error on export. So I either have to have the whole model to scale from the start or not use lights. (And numerous other little technical issues that I won't bore folks with right now).
I have had limited success in the past with porting the model to Constructor and re-positioning the lights there, but if the model is complex, it has some very undesirable effects in Constructor. The last time I tried, the collision mesh disappeared. Lights looked nice though >_>
UV mapping MAP/DIFF objects is a pet peave for me. Many of the low end tools have very poor UV mapping abilities, couple that with textures that are not seamless, and/or poorly tiled, and you have just made even the nicest geometry look like hell. But again, often the artist is limited by the UV tool set of his/her 3d app.
One has the option of exporting the model to .obj or [insert 3d format here], and doing the UV's in UU3d or something good, but I'm not sure hand sorting 3000+ surfaces, figuring what's visible, and what rectangle goes where is worth the time!
The concept art was hand drawn with number 2 pencil on computer paper (yes, my art teachers will shoot me!) then scanned in. The water color effect is a duplicate layer color balanced to red, and then I erased potions of it with a huge brush that caused a nice blur. Made it a little transparent and... Well, there you have it.
Thanks for the comments!
#4
...yikes. Sounds pretty scary to me, but I guess all our fashion when kids later seems pretty horrific.
On topic, I really like you hand drawn work. Concerning the texture placement, what program are you using. I really like your overall theme as well. Can't wait to see more.
- What form of "horror" are you striving for. I'll help you find some concept images if you can describe.
03/14/2009 (5:19 pm)
"..popular media have associated emo with a stereotype that includes being emotional, sensitive, shy, introverted, or angst-ridden. It is also associated with depression, self-injury, and suicide."...yikes. Sounds pretty scary to me, but I guess all our fashion when kids later seems pretty horrific.
On topic, I really like you hand drawn work. Concerning the texture placement, what program are you using. I really like your overall theme as well. Can't wait to see more.
- What form of "horror" are you striving for. I'll help you find some concept images if you can describe.
#5
Right now I'm doing the modeling and UV mapping in Deled Pro. I'm using Photoshop 6.0 for textures (got the whole "starving artist" thing going on, and that's the best I can afford).
I just spent a couple hours trying to sculpt the face entrance, and it's a bit like trying to build it out of Lego blocks because of the angle restrictions. If I slant too many flat surfaces of the same brush shape, either the exporter or TGE chokes, even though they are not concave.
I'm considering scrapping it as a MAP/DIF and taking the idea over to Zbrush where I might re-model it as a DTS for TGEA, or Collada model. It should be WAY easier to create what I want that way. Right now, it's working, but it's looking like a typical blah MAP/DIF building, and I'm trying to create something with a better look to it.
As for the "horror" form. What I'm striving for is something that evokes an emotional response of unease and intimidation as one navigates through the temple. I want the player to think "I shouldn't be here, this is a bad place". I'm thinking dark narrow spaces with high ceilings and openings that you can see as you approach, without being able to see inside them until you are at them. Organic textures and geometry I feel are a must. Maybe going a little Geiger-esk with it? What I want to avoid is gore everywhere, and corpses on poles or hanging from chains... Been a bit over-done.
03/14/2009 (7:28 pm)
Thanks Andrew!Right now I'm doing the modeling and UV mapping in Deled Pro. I'm using Photoshop 6.0 for textures (got the whole "starving artist" thing going on, and that's the best I can afford).
I just spent a couple hours trying to sculpt the face entrance, and it's a bit like trying to build it out of Lego blocks because of the angle restrictions. If I slant too many flat surfaces of the same brush shape, either the exporter or TGE chokes, even though they are not concave.
I'm considering scrapping it as a MAP/DIF and taking the idea over to Zbrush where I might re-model it as a DTS for TGEA, or Collada model. It should be WAY easier to create what I want that way. Right now, it's working, but it's looking like a typical blah MAP/DIF building, and I'm trying to create something with a better look to it.
As for the "horror" form. What I'm striving for is something that evokes an emotional response of unease and intimidation as one navigates through the temple. I want the player to think "I shouldn't be here, this is a bad place". I'm thinking dark narrow spaces with high ceilings and openings that you can see as you approach, without being able to see inside them until you are at them. Organic textures and geometry I feel are a must. Maybe going a little Geiger-esk with it? What I want to avoid is gore everywhere, and corpses on poles or hanging from chains... Been a bit over-done.
#6
Now imagine them gnawing at your shinbones!
David, you do know about Constructor dont you? Its a very decent tool for building DIF, and i truly love its texture alignment and light placement editing functions. I was at one time in love with BSP, sometimes miss them days, won many awards and landed some sweet jobs.
As far as goth-emo whatnot fashion/clicks/styles/stereotypes. I spent most of my teens and 20's with a Mohawk, bright clashing lipstick, combat boots and a tuxedo coat with long tails. Thinking i was cool shit in a champagne glass at the time, but actually probably more like cold diarrhea in a dixy cup(Venture Brothers Reference). Some people need to feel completely different just to be able to relate to themselves. And if when i have children of my own, if they wish to spend there teens dressed in clown outfits or with underwear around there necks, ill let them. But act like its bothering me just to make them feel good.
03/14/2009 (7:51 pm)
Tell me this dont give you shivers: Now imagine them gnawing at your shinbones!
David, you do know about Constructor dont you? Its a very decent tool for building DIF, and i truly love its texture alignment and light placement editing functions. I was at one time in love with BSP, sometimes miss them days, won many awards and landed some sweet jobs.
As far as goth-emo whatnot fashion/clicks/styles/stereotypes. I spent most of my teens and 20's with a Mohawk, bright clashing lipstick, combat boots and a tuxedo coat with long tails. Thinking i was cool shit in a champagne glass at the time, but actually probably more like cold diarrhea in a dixy cup(Venture Brothers Reference). Some people need to feel completely different just to be able to relate to themselves. And if when i have children of my own, if they wish to spend there teens dressed in clown outfits or with underwear around there necks, ill let them. But act like its bothering me just to make them feel good.
#7
I DO know of constructor, I referenced it earlier in this thread. The words "By programmers for programmers" come to mind. (SORRY GG GUYS!) There are very good tools such as Blender, that you either love or hate, Constructor falls into the Blender/Truespace category for me. I think it's a matter of sequential vs creative thought processes, coders tend to lean towards the sequential brain side, I'm more of a chaotic thinker ;D
I would much rather be creating than figuring out HOW to create. I prefer more intuitive tools that let me get right to it like ZBrush, or in the case of MAPs - Deled. I don't think Constructor would solve all my design issues either, as some are inherent in the MAP format itself.
Deled has far more intuitive UV management than Constructor, I would say better overall UV management, but I'm not a Constructor Guru, there may be things it can do I am not aware of.
03/15/2009 (2:58 am)
The pic strikes a chord on a number of different levels, it's creative, well done (except for the heavy handed Photoshop parts ;) No shivers though.. .sorry!I DO know of constructor, I referenced it earlier in this thread. The words "By programmers for programmers" come to mind. (SORRY GG GUYS!) There are very good tools such as Blender, that you either love or hate, Constructor falls into the Blender/Truespace category for me. I think it's a matter of sequential vs creative thought processes, coders tend to lean towards the sequential brain side, I'm more of a chaotic thinker ;D
I would much rather be creating than figuring out HOW to create. I prefer more intuitive tools that let me get right to it like ZBrush, or in the case of MAPs - Deled. I don't think Constructor would solve all my design issues either, as some are inherent in the MAP format itself.
Deled has far more intuitive UV management than Constructor, I would say better overall UV management, but I'm not a Constructor Guru, there may be things it can do I am not aware of.
#8
@Caylo: Not scary at all. =P
03/15/2009 (5:47 am)
Hmmm... Fascinating! The interior is not as "scary" looking as the exterior (neither I find personally scary). If you wanted to add to the creepy factor, perhaps some skulls shoved on a pike that glow and cry blood. Perhaps that's a bit much but I think it's a step in the right direction. You could also try for more organic looking scenery, instead of mechanical. Then you can make the walls pulse with heart beats.@Caylo: Not scary at all. =P
#9
If you read back in this thread, you will see that I already commented on
the "gore" factor. Turn your stomach... maybe. Scary.. not really.
I also commented that the format restrictions were forcing the model to look typical and that it wasn't what I wanted. It's very hard to get "organic" with MAP/DIFF format.
I've already started re-creating the model in a non-MAP format. I hope to have some screen shots of it next week. Ideally, it will have that "creep-u-out" feel I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the comments!
03/15/2009 (4:12 pm)
The "K.I.S.S." principle comes to mind ;D While having cool special effects is... well... COOL! They are complicated to work. It would no longer be just a model, now you would have to have scripts and lights, animation sequences that would have to be in DTS format and have script calls. All of which can be affected by custom game code. It would be no longer drag and drop. Meh, I'm just an artist, don't want to go there.If you read back in this thread, you will see that I already commented on
the "gore" factor. Turn your stomach... maybe. Scary.. not really.
I also commented that the format restrictions were forcing the model to look typical and that it wasn't what I wanted. It's very hard to get "organic" with MAP/DIFF format.
I've already started re-creating the model in a non-MAP format. I hope to have some screen shots of it next week. Ideally, it will have that "creep-u-out" feel I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the comments!
#10
Sorry but there's no horror there for me. I personally find the skull imagery to be silly and overdone. I suppose the dark textures could possibly conjure up an air of foreboding or grimness but there's nothing "gothic" about it. Gothic as in the real 13th century Germanic tribes and not the kids of today.
03/15/2009 (6:17 pm)
Yes... needs blood, filth, bones, and impaled bodies... screaming bodies... half-eaten bodies... Sorry but there's no horror there for me. I personally find the skull imagery to be silly and overdone. I suppose the dark textures could possibly conjure up an air of foreboding or grimness but there's nothing "gothic" about it. Gothic as in the real 13th century Germanic tribes and not the kids of today.
#13
Go with it!
Here's a little inspiration.
03/15/2009 (11:05 pm)
The more I thought about it, the more I loved the idea.Go with it!
Here's a little inspiration.
Quote:
Due to the popularity of the temple in 2000, the Burning Man organization approached Best and asked him to build a temple in 2001 to fit in with their theme based on Shakespeare's "All the World is a Stage." In 2001, all of the art installations related to the seven stages rites of passage from birth to death. In seven themed areas, from Center Camp to the Man and beyond, one could walk a symbolic journey from life to death, finally arriving at the Mausoleum or Temple of Tears, symbolic of death, designed by David Best and Jack Haye.
The Temple of Tears fused several architectural features from around the world from Pura Besakih, Bali's largest and most important temple to Angkor Wat, yet maintains a uniquely original [page 147] shape and form. When I asked Best why he built his temples, he replied:
If I am building a temple, what is this about? Is it a Buddhist temple? Is it a Baptist Church? Is it a synagogue? I thought about all of those religions and there is a stigma about not being able to be buried with the rest of the dead if you have taken your own life. You put all your life into a religion and then all of a sudden because for some reason if one of your wires isn't right they won't bury you? This temple is dedicated to suicide.[10]
This is significant because in some religions, suicide is thought to be a sin; those who commit suicide are not given equal burial rights as others.
In 2001, Best estimated that he talked with at least a hundred people who had all experienced suicides either by their mothers, fathers, brothers, sons, daughters, spouses, or friends. The temple became Black Rock City's sacred center, or emphalos,[11] a powerful destination for the processing of grief within the community.
#14
I'm reconstructing the model in a non-MAP format. I'll be detailing it in ZBrush, so I should be able to create some fairly powerful textures.
I had thought of polysoup, but I never used it personally. I might give the Collada beta a try if it is still being offered. For now it will probably be in DTS.
Some great new things to consider though, thanks!
03/16/2009 (12:14 am)
Great insights BrokeAss! I'm reconstructing the model in a non-MAP format. I'll be detailing it in ZBrush, so I should be able to create some fairly powerful textures.
I had thought of polysoup, but I never used it personally. I might give the Collada beta a try if it is still being offered. For now it will probably be in DTS.
Some great new things to consider though, thanks!
#15
Glad you liked it, was worried about being a bit too ranty but I think "feel" is a HUGE factor in games.
The fact that you were also looking for that inspired me.
03/16/2009 (12:17 am)
Sorry, I moved the posts to a "Creepy Factor" thread.Glad you liked it, was worried about being a bit too ranty but I think "feel" is a HUGE factor in games.
The fact that you were also looking for that inspired me.
#16
The tools you have at your disposal beyond code are art, light, shadow, color, and music/sound. If your team is lacking talent in these areas, or is on a limited budget, it will probably adversely affect the ultimate immersion factor of ones game.
But now I'm ranting ;D I'll head over to Creepy Factor and see what's there.
03/16/2009 (7:03 pm)
Yup! Like good lighting, "game feel" is something often overlooked. I am a strong believer that each scene of your game should tell a part of the story, just like in film. It should strike an emotional chord of some kind, impact the soul on some level. Only, it's not as easy to do in games as it is in film because most games are non-linear and have a wide range of places that a player can visit within a game zone. That doesn't mean it should be overlooked. The tools you have at your disposal beyond code are art, light, shadow, color, and music/sound. If your team is lacking talent in these areas, or is on a limited budget, it will probably adversely affect the ultimate immersion factor of ones game.
But now I'm ranting ;D I'll head over to Creepy Factor and see what's there.
Torque 3D Owner Caylo Gypsyblood
I love that watercolor effect you achieved in the concept art pic! Very cool. Nice eye for texturing, a real sore spot that is often overlooked with DIF. Decay and rubble, with some mood lights will really make it pop!