Welcome to my Headache: Raising Awareness and Answering Some Questions About Selling Content Packs
by Scott Wilson · 03/12/2009 (3:37 am) · 13 comments
Welcome to my Headache: Raising Awareness and Answering Some Questions About Selling Content Packs -
Recently I've decided I'd like to sell a content pack if I ever get it finished and never realized how many questions would arise along the way. So hopefully through my headaches others can get more of an idea of the path it takes to create content packs.
First I thought about what the pack would be.
-a 3d model pack with textures and possibly a few sound files if I could find any decent royalty free sounds for gun fire, etc..
Basically it would be a character for your 3D game with some weapons/accessories rigged, animated, textured and pretty much ready to drop into TGEA
Issues to look out for while creating:
-keep textures free of logos that could lead to law suits
-any lettering done on the textures made with free fonts b/c even fonts have copyright laws
-all programs that I would use to make the pack would need to be legal copies
-make sure any textures I would use would be royalty free -same for sounds (cause of my low budget)
-any files that would need to be included to say add animations to the TGEA code would have to be done in away not to interfere with my TGEA license (more of a tutorial based way of including it, i.e. add this "" to line blah blah of your blah blah inside your blah kinda deal)--basically make sure I don't give away code to none Torque owners if for some reason they decided to buy my pack
Then I was like ok cool simple enough, but then thought about, "If I'm gonna sell it a. I have to have a place to sell it, and b. is there a license I need to sell it?".
Some options for where to sell it:
-Possibly right here on GG
-Places like Turbosquid, The3DStudio, exis-exchange
In order to have your model packs hosted/sold on these sites turns out the fee is about 50% of what you make off the pack.
The other question is, "Even if I have these places host my work for sale do I still need a license to sell my art?". I've yet to answer this but I have some phone numbers I'll be calling to figure it out.
I may need to create a business to sell my art which means buying a business license or at the very least I may need to get a sales tax license to sell my pack.
I'm currently living in MI, USA.
Here's some links that I'm using to try and figure out what I need to do.
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=B1E5872A-BC2A-4... --information for home business licenses if I need to go that route
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=4EB6C8E5-9B8A-4... --Internet Retailing License info since I'd be selling my work online --not sure how this applies to another company selling my work for me such as GG or say Turbosquid
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=2F4CDA76-C08F-4... --would I be considered self employed to some extent if I sell my pack? --yet to figure out the answer to that, common sense says yes if I make over x amount of dollars, but wanna confirm it
www.businessnameusa.com/Answers/lansing%20michigan%20licenses%20for%20online%20s... --again if I have to go the business route...
www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,1607,7-238-43529-154427--,00.html --how to obtain a sales tax license in MI, turns out there's no fee for it thankfully
So like I said these are questions I'm trying to figure out.
Maybe this headache of jumping through all these hoops is why there aren't more contents packs. I mean think about it if you have to buy a business license for say $40 to $100 bucks annually and then when you get your work hosted you lose half to the hosting site, not to mention having to screw with sales tax.
Anyways if anyone has any comments that can help figure any of this out perhaps maybe we can put it altogether and make a resource out of it so people know what they're getting into before they jump at the idea of trying to make content packs.
Thanks in advance and I hope I've raised some more awareness.
Recently I've decided I'd like to sell a content pack if I ever get it finished and never realized how many questions would arise along the way. So hopefully through my headaches others can get more of an idea of the path it takes to create content packs.
First I thought about what the pack would be.
-a 3d model pack with textures and possibly a few sound files if I could find any decent royalty free sounds for gun fire, etc..
Basically it would be a character for your 3D game with some weapons/accessories rigged, animated, textured and pretty much ready to drop into TGEA
Issues to look out for while creating:
-keep textures free of logos that could lead to law suits
-any lettering done on the textures made with free fonts b/c even fonts have copyright laws
-all programs that I would use to make the pack would need to be legal copies
-make sure any textures I would use would be royalty free -same for sounds (cause of my low budget)
-any files that would need to be included to say add animations to the TGEA code would have to be done in away not to interfere with my TGEA license (more of a tutorial based way of including it, i.e. add this "" to line blah blah of your blah blah inside your blah kinda deal)--basically make sure I don't give away code to none Torque owners if for some reason they decided to buy my pack
Then I was like ok cool simple enough, but then thought about, "If I'm gonna sell it a. I have to have a place to sell it, and b. is there a license I need to sell it?".
Some options for where to sell it:
-Possibly right here on GG
-Places like Turbosquid, The3DStudio, exis-exchange
In order to have your model packs hosted/sold on these sites turns out the fee is about 50% of what you make off the pack.
The other question is, "Even if I have these places host my work for sale do I still need a license to sell my art?". I've yet to answer this but I have some phone numbers I'll be calling to figure it out.
I may need to create a business to sell my art which means buying a business license or at the very least I may need to get a sales tax license to sell my pack.
I'm currently living in MI, USA.
Here's some links that I'm using to try and figure out what I need to do.
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=B1E5872A-BC2A-4... --information for home business licenses if I need to go that route
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=4EB6C8E5-9B8A-4... --Internet Retailing License info since I'd be selling my work online --not sure how this applies to another company selling my work for me such as GG or say Turbosquid
ref.michigan.org/medc/services/license/index/combo.asp?ContentId=2F4CDA76-C08F-4... --would I be considered self employed to some extent if I sell my pack? --yet to figure out the answer to that, common sense says yes if I make over x amount of dollars, but wanna confirm it
www.businessnameusa.com/Answers/lansing%20michigan%20licenses%20for%20online%20s... --again if I have to go the business route...
www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,1607,7-238-43529-154427--,00.html --how to obtain a sales tax license in MI, turns out there's no fee for it thankfully
So like I said these are questions I'm trying to figure out.
Maybe this headache of jumping through all these hoops is why there aren't more contents packs. I mean think about it if you have to buy a business license for say $40 to $100 bucks annually and then when you get your work hosted you lose half to the hosting site, not to mention having to screw with sales tax.
Anyways if anyone has any comments that can help figure any of this out perhaps maybe we can put it altogether and make a resource out of it so people know what they're getting into before they jump at the idea of trying to make content packs.
Thanks in advance and I hope I've raised some more awareness.
About the author
Recent Blogs
• Progress So Far on 9MM For Swat Wanna Be Model Pack• Finally Found My First Model's Identity, Swat Model For sale someday..hopefully
• Learning 3D Modeling, mostly polygon modeling, mostly with Blender 3D Part 3.
• A short trip through the progress of my first model, sorry no part 3 of tut. yet.
• Learning 3D Modeling, mostly polygon modeling, mostly with Blender 3D Part 2.
#2
Get your idea set up to market/create first, next get where your going to sell that idea at or to... such as a custom client base or the masses like here at GG. You can also do as I do, by working as a contract talent as well and thus, you claim your added income on your taxes at the end of the year as added income, then, if you made your $250k or better for the year off your content, you move into getting a TAX ID and moving up from there.
You need to start small and work your way up. Get known around the forums, get some work out here for the fans to see and give feedback on. If you can't handle a good or bad review you should not even bother getting into content making cause I've seen both sides of the coin here... some people can be bluntly hurtful on how bad your texture or whatnot is and others won't tell you the truth if their life depending on it :-) so coming into this as a new content maker should be with an open mind, not an open pocket book.
Meaning, don't expect instant sales or to live off your content work, cause unless your extremely gifted in the art of making content shine above and beyond the norm, your going to make some sales but not a living off those sales to where you can quit your day job, at least not in the early years of content pack making.
Start off small and work your way to your goal(s) and move forward from there. Don't worry about the tax guy right now and be patient and offer value and quality on your work and you will be fine... Hope this helps... good luck.
Will Zettler
Digital Lightstorm Studio
Ambient Sounds Collection
www.garagegames.com/products/ambientsounds
will_zettler@dlsstudio.com
www.dlsstudio.com
Waskom, Tx
St Louis, MO
03/12/2009 (5:07 am)
Nice writeup Scott... Well, for starters, you need to begin what your good at doing... textures, art in general, models, sound (I'm specializing in ambient sounds) or whatever your pack may be... next, you need to begin making a name for yourself and not worring so much as to how soon I need to pay my taxes or get that business permit going... you need to make SALES before you can buy into anything to pay taxes with.Get your idea set up to market/create first, next get where your going to sell that idea at or to... such as a custom client base or the masses like here at GG. You can also do as I do, by working as a contract talent as well and thus, you claim your added income on your taxes at the end of the year as added income, then, if you made your $250k or better for the year off your content, you move into getting a TAX ID and moving up from there.
You need to start small and work your way up. Get known around the forums, get some work out here for the fans to see and give feedback on. If you can't handle a good or bad review you should not even bother getting into content making cause I've seen both sides of the coin here... some people can be bluntly hurtful on how bad your texture or whatnot is and others won't tell you the truth if their life depending on it :-) so coming into this as a new content maker should be with an open mind, not an open pocket book.
Meaning, don't expect instant sales or to live off your content work, cause unless your extremely gifted in the art of making content shine above and beyond the norm, your going to make some sales but not a living off those sales to where you can quit your day job, at least not in the early years of content pack making.
Start off small and work your way to your goal(s) and move forward from there. Don't worry about the tax guy right now and be patient and offer value and quality on your work and you will be fine... Hope this helps... good luck.
Will Zettler
Digital Lightstorm Studio
Ambient Sounds Collection
www.garagegames.com/products/ambientsounds
will_zettler@dlsstudio.com
www.dlsstudio.com
Waskom, Tx
St Louis, MO
#3
That being said, I don;t know what GG's requirements are for selling packs. I don't think they require a Federal ID number.
I can't go into a whole lot of info here due to my NDA with GG but what I can tell you is that yes, I sell thru GG and they don't require a Tax ID number (providing your not a business) but you are to pay taxes on what you make at the end of the year against what you made for that time frame (ie 08, 09). Usually you need a special form for that, which my girlfriend does for us every year. Hope that helps...
Will
PS: Yes right now my content packs are a hobby, nothing more. Contracting work is that too, til I get out from under my day job, then it will remain a hobby and only that.
03/12/2009 (5:17 am)
@ Randy:That being said, I don;t know what GG's requirements are for selling packs. I don't think they require a Federal ID number.
I can't go into a whole lot of info here due to my NDA with GG but what I can tell you is that yes, I sell thru GG and they don't require a Tax ID number (providing your not a business) but you are to pay taxes on what you make at the end of the year against what you made for that time frame (ie 08, 09). Usually you need a special form for that, which my girlfriend does for us every year. Hope that helps...
Will
PS: Yes right now my content packs are a hobby, nothing more. Contracting work is that too, til I get out from under my day job, then it will remain a hobby and only that.
#4
Will
03/12/2009 (5:23 am)
PSS: An added place you could sell your packs is on your own site or through other sites like www.monsterpacks.com, here at Garage Games or a combo of sites. Remember, depending where you go, your sales may slump or go high, but overall, I have seen nothing good from Turbo Squid at all for what you have to deal with. Turbo don't allow you to advertise your site or your email if you haven't noticed. I don't like dealing with them, so I stay away from there to publish stuff. I buy stuff from them yes, but don't do any publishign through them what so ever. Nor will I until they change their marketing and allowing us to advertise ourselves in our products on their site. Will
#5
While I'm not qualified to offer official advise of any kind, I can "point you in the right direction". You should strongly consider setting yourself up as an "LLC". I'm going through same process right now myself.
(legal-zoom can help you get all the county/state/federal licenes and tax-ids straightened out too. I think it's part of the package or an extra-option.)
03/12/2009 (2:47 pm)
if your thinking about starting a business, and you probably should - just goto: legalzoom.com fill out some web-forms and your good-2-go.While I'm not qualified to offer official advise of any kind, I can "point you in the right direction". You should strongly consider setting yourself up as an "LLC". I'm going through same process right now myself.
(legal-zoom can help you get all the county/state/federal licenes and tax-ids straightened out too. I think it's part of the package or an extra-option.)
#6
03/12/2009 (5:51 pm)
I don't think you need to worry about sales tax. the vendor takes care of that. You don't need a business license, you have a ss#. all you need is a bank account and put your stuff out there. You get a form at the end of the year, you claim it on your taxes, you write off your expenses. That's it! 
#7
To answer some of your other questions:
Checking to make sure you have the correct license for everything you sell is important. I find this especially important on textures and sound files as they usually have EULA's very similar to ones on our packs, meaning that have different use requirements. Some let you use them to publish a model for sale, while others require that it be a game/movie project and then again others require royalties. This is also something to be checked with fonts as their use licenses vary.
The bit about the TGEA code is only half true. The basic rule is that you can't ship our code with your kit without our permission (which we usually give for products on our site). This doesn't stop you from writing your own player.cs file for instance and telling people were to put it and execute it in their projects. You can't ship people everything they need but you can get them pretty close.
My other bit of advice is to follow Will Zettler's advice :) Why did you start modeling? Was it to try to make money or because you wanted to learn how to model and hopefully make some money out of your efforts? If your looking at this entirely from a business standpoint I understand your questions. But if you started modeling because you really wanted to then let that be your focus. Spend your time improving your craft and making a name for yourself in the communities important to you. Then when you have a product that you think people would be willing to pay for, tackle the business stuff. When your ready there are a ton of resources and people willing to help out, and the tedious business stuff is easier to get through if you have a product in your hands that your doing it for.
03/12/2009 (6:34 pm)
Henry is correct. All we need at GarageGames is an tax identification number which can be either an SSN, EIN or ITIN. Sales tax I believe only applies to the state in which its sold and is handled by the vendor. For instance if you were to sell your products on your own site in Michigan you would most likely have to deal with sales tax. I don't know for sure as Oregon is a sales tax free state :)To answer some of your other questions:
Checking to make sure you have the correct license for everything you sell is important. I find this especially important on textures and sound files as they usually have EULA's very similar to ones on our packs, meaning that have different use requirements. Some let you use them to publish a model for sale, while others require that it be a game/movie project and then again others require royalties. This is also something to be checked with fonts as their use licenses vary.
The bit about the TGEA code is only half true. The basic rule is that you can't ship our code with your kit without our permission (which we usually give for products on our site). This doesn't stop you from writing your own player.cs file for instance and telling people were to put it and execute it in their projects. You can't ship people everything they need but you can get them pretty close.
My other bit of advice is to follow Will Zettler's advice :) Why did you start modeling? Was it to try to make money or because you wanted to learn how to model and hopefully make some money out of your efforts? If your looking at this entirely from a business standpoint I understand your questions. But if you started modeling because you really wanted to then let that be your focus. Spend your time improving your craft and making a name for yourself in the communities important to you. Then when you have a product that you think people would be willing to pay for, tackle the business stuff. When your ready there are a ton of resources and people willing to help out, and the tedious business stuff is easier to get through if you have a product in your hands that your doing it for.
#8
You are not violating any copyright if you use a font that you paid for in a bitmap/texture. Even if you use fonts that you paid for, you can use them in your textures or elsewhere in a game without fear of owing somebody more money. They can't come after you for royalties if you paid for the font. You only have to worry about additional licensing if you are shipping the font itself with your product.
03/12/2009 (6:43 pm)
Quote:
-any lettering done on the textures made with free fonts b/c even fonts have copyright laws
You are not violating any copyright if you use a font that you paid for in a bitmap/texture. Even if you use fonts that you paid for, you can use them in your textures or elsewhere in a game without fear of owing somebody more money. They can't come after you for royalties if you paid for the font. You only have to worry about additional licensing if you are shipping the font itself with your product.
#10
03/12/2009 (8:18 pm)
Thanks to everyone for their comments so far and I welcome more as this info can help many who look to one day maybe make a content pack. If it's ok with everyone after this blog gets pushed off the front page I may copy and paste it along with everyone's comments into a resource for others to find later when they need it. 
#11
I see that Derek has already chimed in or I would point you in his direction, but it looks like he covered the basics quite nicely. I also think that Will's advice is good for general practice.
03/12/2009 (9:41 pm)
I have a content pack in the GarageGames store, and it was a fairly painless process. I quite enjoy the checks I recieve. The thing is though is that I never approached it as an attempt to make money. It just sort of happened, and it certainly helped that the name of one of the community's kick-ass artists is attached to the product name. Because of my poor art skills I would have simply given the code away as a resource, but I worked with Apparatus on an unrelated project and he liked the simplicity of how easy it was to "blow things up", thus the Kaboom! pack was born.I see that Derek has already chimed in or I would point you in his direction, but it looks like he covered the basics quite nicely. I also think that Will's advice is good for general practice.
#12
Between GG and Smith Micro(Poser, etc) I have learned that it's ALWAYS worth asking.
Don't be intimidated. :)
03/13/2009 (2:50 am)
Quote:The basic rule is that you can't ship our code with your kit without our permission (which we usually give for products on our site).GG was very good to us about this.
Between GG and Smith Micro(Poser, etc) I have learned that it's ALWAYS worth asking.
Don't be intimidated. :)
#13
Fonts are actually considered software, so each font is an implementation of a typeface. If you find a cheaper/free font that looks like a cool one you want to use, and the cheaper alternative has a liberal licence, no problem. It's just the same as with game rules, for example.
Music licensing can be weird, too:
http://www.shockwave-sound.com/license.html
Note that UK sales require fees to some organisation if the musician has ever spoken to anyone about membership[1] :)
Best to contact an audio engineer-type directly and buy sounds for your specific use so you're in the clear. The people at Shockwave probably do just that, too.
I see US tax systems have improved, in that you can write off things you buy for the business. There is still a difference in how you qualify for the write-off. Here in Norway, any business earning less than $7000 or so a year is considered a hobby, so no tax. There are no running costs to have a one-man company, just a small $250 fee for the evaluation (which usually is passed). There is probably some organisation specialising in informing people about starting a business.
[1]May contain exaggeration.
03/13/2009 (9:03 am)
To add to what Joe Melton said: Read the licence included with the font. No info? Don't risk it.Fonts are actually considered software, so each font is an implementation of a typeface. If you find a cheaper/free font that looks like a cool one you want to use, and the cheaper alternative has a liberal licence, no problem. It's just the same as with game rules, for example.
Music licensing can be weird, too:
http://www.shockwave-sound.com/license.html
Note that UK sales require fees to some organisation if the musician has ever spoken to anyone about membership[1] :)
Best to contact an audio engineer-type directly and buy sounds for your specific use so you're in the clear. The people at Shockwave probably do just that, too.
I see US tax systems have improved, in that you can write off things you buy for the business. There is still a difference in how you qualify for the write-off. Here in Norway, any business earning less than $7000 or so a year is considered a hobby, so no tax. There are no running costs to have a one-man company, just a small $250 fee for the evaluation (which usually is passed). There is probably some organisation specialising in informing people about starting a business.
[1]May contain exaggeration.
Torque 3D Owner Randy Hearn (Magnum)
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=172833,00.html
"What is a hobby? Hobbies, also called not-for-profit activities, are those activities that are not pursued for profit."
If you are selling content packs for the sole purpose of making a few bucks, then it is a hobby. A business can deduct the cost of everything it uses, your computer, printer, software, everything. Can you repay all that on content packs, probably not right away.
That being said, I don;t know what GG's requirements are for selling packs. I don't think they require a Federal ID number.
Also, I have checked my local laws and I can have a home based business even in an area designated residential, as long as I do not have daily traffic and more specifically if the neighbors do not complain of traffic. I asked about UPS/FedEx and unless they are coming to your house twice a day, there is probably no issue either.
Sales taxes vary. Bottom line, if it's a hobby you don't charge taxes, you can't legally you won't have a tax number.
Self employment? Talk to a lawyer or accountant:) But if defined as a hobby, you can't be self employed.