Torque 3D Development - Chris Robertson and Collada
by Brett Seyler · 02/17/2009 (2:19 am) · 85 comments
Last week we introduced the first look at at new tools for Torque 3D with the Torque Launcher. Today, we've got a very big announcement to follow that up. Though we've already talked about this some publicly in IRC and the forums, it's going to radically change Torque's content pipeline.
Chris' Bio
"I'm a software developer from New Zealand. Been using Torque in my spare time for about 5 years. Best known for developing the Milkshape and Houdini DTS exporters.""I'm working on adding Collada support to Torque, so the engine can now load a Collada model in the same way it loads a DTS (ie. as part of a script object or directly from the World Editor). I've also extended TSShapeConstructor to allow nodes, sequences and even meshes to be added, removed and renamed when a DTS or Collada shape is loaded. This is a great complement to the Collada loader, since you can take just about any model at all (such as from Google's 3D Warehouse) and "Torquify" it without having to muck around with importing and re-exporting."
Apparently New Zealand is too small for Google to acknowdege, but it's the land of Mordor and Flight of the Concords, so it's already more famous that Australia (though I am a Russell Crowe fan). Kiwis have better accents too.
Now, we've had this working with Torque for some time now, but this is the kind of feature that's going to take many, many use cases before we're satisfied that it's 100%. To that end, we're inviting everyone to test this functionality with any and all content you can find and give us your feedback. Let us know where we still need to work out some kinks, and by the time we release Torque 3D, it will have the smoothest, easiest, most polished art pipeline out there for the widest number of tools.
How can you get started?
We've created a custom build of TGEA 1.8.1 with the Collada loading functionality wrapped in. This is a binary build, but it should provide everything you need to test out the new content pipeline. You'll find thorough documentation in the root install directory, and we're encouraging you to post your feedback in this forum. You can also read more technical details in this forum post. The Torque Collada Test is set to expire in less than a month (March 13th at 5:00 PM PST) so jump in as soon as possible and start testing!
Download Torque Collada Test
I had a quick run at what we could do with this new build, so I'll share it with you all as a quick walk-though.
Collada loading in Torque is a big deal, but it's one of many pieces that will change the way artists work with Torque 3D. There's a lot more to show. Please take some time and take the Torque 3D Collada Test build for a spin. Help us make Torque 3D even better with your feedback!
More development blogs to come. This is post #10.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3! [li]Post #26 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#2
- Is there another form of collision planned for this besides PolySoup ?
02/17/2009 (2:42 am)
I think this is great for static game objects. I am with Tomas on any other use.- Is there another form of collision planned for this besides PolySoup ?
#3
Will it support Collada FX?
And will there be a converter to convert to DTS, or whatever binary format T3D will be using? I wouldn't want to ship games with it, though having native loading support will make it easier to test content while saving a conversion step.
02/17/2009 (3:08 am)
Nice. I've been adding support for Collada and FBX import in the editor tool that I've been working on, but good to see Collada getting some official support. It does have it's issues as of now, but I suspect that as it matures the situation will improve as the DCC vendors fine tune their exporters.Will it support Collada FX?
And will there be a converter to convert to DTS, or whatever binary format T3D will be using? I wouldn't want to ship games with it, though having native loading support will make it easier to test content while saving a conversion step.
#4
Sorry... but this is a joke.
It is always better when a engine has a special format for models. The best place to import meshes from Collada, FBX, whatever would be ShowToolPro. After the import we can check and tweak the model (animations, LOD, Materials, Shading, Weights, bones, Portals and so on). This process is very important.
Now the model is ready for the export to the (new?) DTS-Format.
This is also much more artist-friendly.
Currently i am very disappointed.
02/17/2009 (4:26 am)
I cant believe it. Please... Garagegames... dont do such a big mistake. Quote:
Let us know where we still need to work out some kinks, and by the time we release Torque 3D, it will have the smoothest, easiest, most polished art pipeline out there for the widest number of tools.
Sorry... but this is a joke.
It is always better when a engine has a special format for models. The best place to import meshes from Collada, FBX, whatever would be ShowToolPro. After the import we can check and tweak the model (animations, LOD, Materials, Shading, Weights, bones, Portals and so on). This process is very important.
Now the model is ready for the export to the (new?) DTS-Format.
This is also much more artist-friendly.
Currently i am very disappointed.
#5
That way you can import your collada files directly from your 3d app, tweak and repeat. Once it all works as expected, remove the collada file and the engine-generated DTS file will be there for distribution.
If I've misunderstood your post and have just repeated what you already know then I apologise!
02/17/2009 (5:41 am)
@Thomas - Unless I'm mistaken that's exactly what it does. I don't think GG are saying distribute your collada files with the game. When the game runs, the collada files are converted to DTS for future use (the same way .cs files are compiled to .dso).That way you can import your collada files directly from your 3d app, tweak and repeat. Once it all works as expected, remove the collada file and the engine-generated DTS file will be there for distribution.
If I've misunderstood your post and have just repeated what you already know then I apologise!
#6
02/17/2009 (6:21 am)
Way to go, Chris! Your work on this tech has been fantastic so far. I've been on the Collada testing team from the beginning, and I'm a big fan of the decision to support Collada.
#7
What I miss right now, is one complete model format, with all important stuff (lightmaps, selfshadowing, skeleton animation, etc.) and comfortable content creation (not like DIF models) - comfortable export from max format without any advanced magic to perform (Constructor).
If this is another supported model format with missing functionality, or different way of exporting model do DTS format, than... Well, that's not what I am waiting for...
So, please, feed us with some more information!
02/17/2009 (6:38 am)
I am also very courious, if Collada FX will be supported.What I miss right now, is one complete model format, with all important stuff (lightmaps, selfshadowing, skeleton animation, etc.) and comfortable content creation (not like DIF models) - comfortable export from max format without any advanced magic to perform (Constructor).
If this is another supported model format with missing functionality, or different way of exporting model do DTS format, than... Well, that's not what I am waiting for...
So, please, feed us with some more information!
#8
thanks
02/17/2009 (6:39 am)
Good blog, This maybe to early of a question but I was wondering would I have to us collada to have a Dynamically destructible objects to work or is it going to work with DTS/DIF's?thanks
#10
02/17/2009 (7:39 am)
This makes me happy, finally some work is done on content pipeline. Dont listen to ney-sayers, just plug in this puppy in Torque, if I want to be able to import my mesh like this I should be able to, just make sure it's optimized and fast as possible. 
#11
@All - Check out the test and docs. If you are curious, just download the test and run it for yourself.
02/17/2009 (7:49 am)
@Thomas and Tomas - Download the Collada Test and read through the included docs (currently only two files). They go into how the Collada model is converted into an optimized, cached DTS version (automatically).@All - Check out the test and docs. If you are curious, just download the test and run it for yourself.
#12
02/17/2009 (7:58 am)
@Michael: And why is this conversion not implemented in a newer version of ShowToolPro? Where is the problem? 
#13
http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/85289
02/17/2009 (8:02 am)
I'd recommend that everyone goes to the linked forum in the post, as it explains this in a lot more detail. Basically, as Eikon stated above, the collada files are compiled into dts files, and dts has been improved in numerous ways. Detailed here: http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/85289
#14
Heh, this is cool! Especially for the tinkering or hobbyist "artist". So GOOD JOB! to Chris and GarageGames. Time to test, test, test.
02/17/2009 (8:32 am)
Artists' sure are picky creatures, aren't they? Always wanting this or that, complaining because a certain export process mangled their excessive creativeness, lack of understanding, always suffering from conflicting viewpoints of how a particular format should be setup or the features that it supports, etc, etc. They're so unwilling to learn a new tool that can do what the job needs because they're more comfortable with "something else". Ever noticed that they suffer tool envy for something that's usually proven not too work all to well? Yet a jack-of-all-trades "artist" can come along with a $20 (or even free!) application, and their stuff works. Ok, enough of a rant about silly artists'.Heh, this is cool! Especially for the tinkering or hobbyist "artist". So GOOD JOB! to Chris and GarageGames. Time to test, test, test.
#15
02/17/2009 (8:39 am)
Quote:Artists' sure are picky creatures, aren't they? Always wanting this or that, complaining because a certain export process mangled their excessive creativeness, lack of understanding, always suffering from conflicting viewpoints of how a particular format should be setup or the features that it supports, etc, etc. They're so unwilling to learn a new tool that can do what the job needs because they're more comfortable with "something else".I'm an artist, and one reason I'm loving the Collada implementation is because I now have access to features in Torque like multiple UV sets and vertex coloring. I think artists will really like Collada support. So far, Collada export has been a breeze compared to dts export.
#16
02/17/2009 (8:48 am)
I remember Clark talking about this very very long ago and it does look useful. Good job! 
#17
Chris, I still have Milkshape around somewhere as it has always had good converters, and the Houdini DTS exporter is what sold me on Houdini.
Oh, and seems like a good opportunity to check out Micheals new documentation process:)
Edited to remove carpal tunnel typos:)
02/17/2009 (9:07 am)
Being involved in STEP conversions this is definately something I will checkout tonight when I get home! Chris, I still have Milkshape around somewhere as it has always had good converters, and the Houdini DTS exporter is what sold me on Houdini.
Oh, and seems like a good opportunity to check out Micheals new documentation process:)
Edited to remove carpal tunnel typos:)
#18
I don't understand the complaints about Collada being a buggy format. I will say there are definitely some crappy exporters out there, but the format itself is fine and getting better. I've found the free exporters from http://www.feelingsoftware.com/content/view/65/79/lang,en/ to be the best so far.
Even still, supporting more formats is only a positive thing as it potentially removes a step for existing artists and makes the process more universal/familiar for artists not familiar with the DTS exporters.
02/17/2009 (9:35 am)
I approve of this demo art and song!I don't understand the complaints about Collada being a buggy format. I will say there are definitely some crappy exporters out there, but the format itself is fine and getting better. I've found the free exporters from http://www.feelingsoftware.com/content/view/65/79/lang,en/ to be the best so far.
Even still, supporting more formats is only a positive thing as it potentially removes a step for existing artists and makes the process more universal/familiar for artists not familiar with the DTS exporters.
#19
When you can free up an artist to work in a manner that is most familiar to them, you maximize their creative output.
Collada is far from perfect at the moment. But given due attention, it will simply make development more accessible on the whole.
Art tools are just that, "tools". What's relevant are the design skills being brought to bare. Not the color of the hammer or where the switch is at on you power drill.
It's a pain in the @$$ and a big waste of time to have to learn a new set of tools, or juggle assets between multiple programs just to get is in a usable format.
Glad to see this coming along.
Best of luck guys.
02/17/2009 (9:57 am)
Tim is dead right.When you can free up an artist to work in a manner that is most familiar to them, you maximize their creative output.
Collada is far from perfect at the moment. But given due attention, it will simply make development more accessible on the whole.
Art tools are just that, "tools". What's relevant are the design skills being brought to bare. Not the color of the hammer or where the switch is at on you power drill.
It's a pain in the @$$ and a big waste of time to have to learn a new set of tools, or juggle assets between multiple programs just to get is in a usable format.
Glad to see this coming along.
Best of luck guys.
#20
@Thomas - We contracted Chris to work on the Collada loader and TSShapeConstructor, not improve STP. We are showing off the fruits of his labor and I think it is pretty damn cool.
STP was never meant to be a refinement tool. ShowToolPro. There are some other features going into Torque 3D that will cover your concerns. Try not to jump to conclusions until you read the rest of Brett's blogs.
02/17/2009 (10:15 am)
Quote:And why is this conversion not implemented in a newer version of ShowToolPro? Where is the problem?
@Thomas - We contracted Chris to work on the Collada loader and TSShapeConstructor, not improve STP. We are showing off the fruits of his labor and I think it is pretty damn cool.
STP was never meant to be a refinement tool. ShowToolPro. There are some other features going into Torque 3D that will cover your concerns. Try not to jump to conclusions until you read the rest of Brett's blogs.
Torque Owner Tomas Hron