New Torque3D Price Point (Discussion, NOT announcement!)
by Syllus · 01/26/2009 (5:12 pm) · 66 comments
There has been a lot of whining and complaining about the news that the new Torque 3D will have a higher price point. People are proclaiming that GG has "forgotten the indie", and that "GG has let its corporate success go to it's head."
I am finally going to come out and say what I think about this. It makes me sick! I think the new engine, AND the prospect of the new price point is great! GG has gone out there and put together a huge team to diligently work full time to bring us an engine that from the looks of it, is going to be vastly superior to anything you can currently get on the "indie market" and the way I see it:
A. they deserve to profit from it
B. they NEED to profit from it... you simply cannot, cannot run a 30+ man dev team on a project when the products price point is a couple hundred dollars. This is the very reason that we have been using incomplete, outdated, and overall sub-par engines for the last several years, and why it has taken so long for GG to get where they are. They couldn't afford it because they were practically giving us there products! I am personally looking forward to the new rates of development / fixes and quality of products that will be possible with a higher price point.
C. If a price point of $1000 (guessing this based on speculative posts in the past, no idea what it will actually be) is a major issue and makes you not want to buy the engine, then I am sorry but you are not an "indie developer"... you are a hobbyist. Anyone who is developing something with a real intention of marketing it and selling it would jump on the chance to get such a powerful tool for only $1000. If you cannot justify $1000 for your main and primary tool then odds are you do not need it... you can buy TGEA for a few hundred dollars (the hobbyist engine) and produce the product you are planning (and probably still not max out the engines capabilities) just fine.
I am not saying this to be mean... I am just being realistic. I personally am extremely excited to see this kind of quality and dedication in the new GG engine and am equally excited to know that with a higher price point they will be able to continue this level of development and future support / improvements at a rate that is helpful and useful to us.
Granted if the price gets too high then it could be a major factor and alienate anyone without investors or a large pool of capital but in a realistic view of things, a $1000 license fee IS within the indie cost range... if you want a few hundred dollar price point then you need to be realistic and admit that you are working on a hobbyist level, not an indie, and buy the appropriate tools for the job.
Also granted that a higher price point demands higher quality and more capability... which we are seeing the beginnings of first hand with these blogs! :) (Looks great guys keep it up!)
What would be really nice would be to see something along the lines of:
1. TGB hobbyist 2d engine: $250 indie, $1,250 commercial (current prices)
2. TGEA hobbyist 3d engine: $300 indie $1,500 commercial (current prices)
3. Torque3D true indie 3d engine: $1,000 indie, $10,000 - $20,000 commercial (if you need the commercial license then you can defiantly afford it so don't complain!)
With the differentiating factor on indie vs. commercial being revenue as it is now... even if they lower the amount needed before requiring a commercial license. IMO a gimped engine is worthless regardless of how cheap it is... prime example is Unity 3D... sure you can get an indie license for like $200... but what good is a modern day game engine if it can't do real time shadows, can't render to texture, can't publish to windows etc? And a "with source code" vs. "without source code" is horrible as well... because there is no way the engine developers can possibly think of every feature / capability that the user will need, for instance the project I am working on now, requires the ability to run on walls and even ceilings... this flat out would not be possible in GG engines if we did not have access to the source. So I am really hoping that they stick to their current indie/commercial differentiating model. (**Shameless hint, hint!**) :)
Anyhow sorry for the long rant... I just wanted to say that because I have seen so much whining and "GG has forgotten the indie" type posts lately. They haven't forgotten the indie... IMO they are just now, truly starting to support the indie... by finally being able to devote the necessary time and resources to making us these fantastic tools with the capability that a game with true hopes of success would need! And fact is, development and support cost money, the proof of this is in the previous engines and their development tracks, from GG... when they didn't have many resources to throw at it, vs. the way Torque3D seems to be going. As long as they keep the indie license on Torque3D "within reason" (and don't gimp the indie version) and they continue to sell TGB and TGEA for the hobbyist devs... Then I personally will back them with 100% support (and my credit card).
Note: that I am not writing this to start a flame war... and hope it is not seen that way. I simply want people to stop and think about the realistic truths behind it before they complain and condemn.
I am finally going to come out and say what I think about this. It makes me sick! I think the new engine, AND the prospect of the new price point is great! GG has gone out there and put together a huge team to diligently work full time to bring us an engine that from the looks of it, is going to be vastly superior to anything you can currently get on the "indie market" and the way I see it:
A. they deserve to profit from it
B. they NEED to profit from it... you simply cannot, cannot run a 30+ man dev team on a project when the products price point is a couple hundred dollars. This is the very reason that we have been using incomplete, outdated, and overall sub-par engines for the last several years, and why it has taken so long for GG to get where they are. They couldn't afford it because they were practically giving us there products! I am personally looking forward to the new rates of development / fixes and quality of products that will be possible with a higher price point.
C. If a price point of $1000 (guessing this based on speculative posts in the past, no idea what it will actually be) is a major issue and makes you not want to buy the engine, then I am sorry but you are not an "indie developer"... you are a hobbyist. Anyone who is developing something with a real intention of marketing it and selling it would jump on the chance to get such a powerful tool for only $1000. If you cannot justify $1000 for your main and primary tool then odds are you do not need it... you can buy TGEA for a few hundred dollars (the hobbyist engine) and produce the product you are planning (and probably still not max out the engines capabilities) just fine.
I am not saying this to be mean... I am just being realistic. I personally am extremely excited to see this kind of quality and dedication in the new GG engine and am equally excited to know that with a higher price point they will be able to continue this level of development and future support / improvements at a rate that is helpful and useful to us.
Granted if the price gets too high then it could be a major factor and alienate anyone without investors or a large pool of capital but in a realistic view of things, a $1000 license fee IS within the indie cost range... if you want a few hundred dollar price point then you need to be realistic and admit that you are working on a hobbyist level, not an indie, and buy the appropriate tools for the job.
Also granted that a higher price point demands higher quality and more capability... which we are seeing the beginnings of first hand with these blogs! :) (Looks great guys keep it up!)
What would be really nice would be to see something along the lines of:
1. TGB hobbyist 2d engine: $250 indie, $1,250 commercial (current prices)
2. TGEA hobbyist 3d engine: $300 indie $1,500 commercial (current prices)
3. Torque3D true indie 3d engine: $1,000 indie, $10,000 - $20,000 commercial (if you need the commercial license then you can defiantly afford it so don't complain!)
With the differentiating factor on indie vs. commercial being revenue as it is now... even if they lower the amount needed before requiring a commercial license. IMO a gimped engine is worthless regardless of how cheap it is... prime example is Unity 3D... sure you can get an indie license for like $200... but what good is a modern day game engine if it can't do real time shadows, can't render to texture, can't publish to windows etc? And a "with source code" vs. "without source code" is horrible as well... because there is no way the engine developers can possibly think of every feature / capability that the user will need, for instance the project I am working on now, requires the ability to run on walls and even ceilings... this flat out would not be possible in GG engines if we did not have access to the source. So I am really hoping that they stick to their current indie/commercial differentiating model. (**Shameless hint, hint!**) :)
Anyhow sorry for the long rant... I just wanted to say that because I have seen so much whining and "GG has forgotten the indie" type posts lately. They haven't forgotten the indie... IMO they are just now, truly starting to support the indie... by finally being able to devote the necessary time and resources to making us these fantastic tools with the capability that a game with true hopes of success would need! And fact is, development and support cost money, the proof of this is in the previous engines and their development tracks, from GG... when they didn't have many resources to throw at it, vs. the way Torque3D seems to be going. As long as they keep the indie license on Torque3D "within reason" (and don't gimp the indie version) and they continue to sell TGB and TGEA for the hobbyist devs... Then I personally will back them with 100% support (and my credit card).
Note: that I am not writing this to start a flame war... and hope it is not seen that way. I simply want people to stop and think about the realistic truths behind it before they complain and condemn.
About the author
#2
01/26/2009 (5:44 pm)
This makes sense, GG has added a ton of value, and there is nothing else on the market like Torque right now. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
#3
01/26/2009 (5:44 pm)
Disclaimer notice: Please keep in mind that I have no idea what the actual price point will be. My use of a $1000 price point was merely an example based on the current speculative conversations about the T3D price.
#4
Those capabilities are more important to you, for your project, than they are for others. You place a higher value on those items you mentioned than others do. Others, for example, may place a higher value on things like: ease of use, time-to-money, ease of getting content into the engine, ease of developing non-fps games, licensing terms, choice of scripting languages, documentation, examples, stable API's, etc.
I could just as easily turn your question around on you and ask "...but what good is a modern day game engine without a true scenegraph, if you can't develop and deploy on Linux, if the physics implementation can infinite-loop the engine, if you can't load and use a .obj or a .x or a .3ds, if you can't script in Python?"
See?
01/26/2009 (5:51 pm)
Quote: ... but what good is a modern day game engine if it can't do real time shadows, can't render to texture, can't publish to windows etc?
Those capabilities are more important to you, for your project, than they are for others. You place a higher value on those items you mentioned than others do. Others, for example, may place a higher value on things like: ease of use, time-to-money, ease of getting content into the engine, ease of developing non-fps games, licensing terms, choice of scripting languages, documentation, examples, stable API's, etc.
I could just as easily turn your question around on you and ask "...but what good is a modern day game engine without a true scenegraph, if you can't develop and deploy on Linux, if the physics implementation can infinite-loop the engine, if you can't load and use a .obj or a .x or a .3ds, if you can't script in Python?"
See?
#5
these hobbyist's can complain all they want and they pay for a hobbyist engine not a pro indie engine as that's what i have seen so far is a pro engine being made. keep up the good work and just ignore the hobbyist's as they will complain for years to come as they always want everything for free. i might be new here but that's besides the point i might not even own tgea yet but i like how things are turning out. +++ points for everyone in gg team.
01/26/2009 (6:03 pm)
yes i understand its what i been saying all along to these people they are getting so much for there buck they just don't realize it. these hobbyist can stick with tgea but like you said t3d is for indie makers and that's where i am headed and that's why i will be buying t3d what ever it costs. i want true games not some little game that looks like some boring bad graphic game that was done 8 years ago. i want a game that looks all shiny and new with the highest tec possible like the big boys.these hobbyist's can complain all they want and they pay for a hobbyist engine not a pro indie engine as that's what i have seen so far is a pro engine being made. keep up the good work and just ignore the hobbyist's as they will complain for years to come as they always want everything for free. i might be new here but that's besides the point i might not even own tgea yet but i like how things are turning out. +++ points for everyone in gg team.
#6
Andy those things were just listed as an example... and I am not stating that they are the ultimate judge of quality and worth, as a programmer myself, I too am more interested in the ease of use and development capabilities side of it, then the graphical effects... (however I believe that they are valid examples as in todays entertainment market, very high priority is placed on those visuals by the consumers). However none of that matters in this case as you seem to have taken my comment out of context, my primary point of using that as an example... was to state that I did not feel that providing a "lower priced" indie license based on the fact that capabilitites have been gimped or flat out removed, was a desirable model. It had nothing to do with how you seemed to have taken it. It was an example of a licensing model... nothing more.
01/26/2009 (6:17 pm)
@ Andy: Andy those things were just listed as an example... and I am not stating that they are the ultimate judge of quality and worth, as a programmer myself, I too am more interested in the ease of use and development capabilities side of it, then the graphical effects... (however I believe that they are valid examples as in todays entertainment market, very high priority is placed on those visuals by the consumers). However none of that matters in this case as you seem to have taken my comment out of context, my primary point of using that as an example... was to state that I did not feel that providing a "lower priced" indie license based on the fact that capabilitites have been gimped or flat out removed, was a desirable model. It had nothing to do with how you seemed to have taken it. It was an example of a licensing model... nothing more.
#7
So now all the sudden Indie means you need a good bit of money? Correct me if I'm wrong but Indie means independent which a lot of independent entities don't usually have a ton of money to play with and that's not what matters to them. Yeah it's totally a bonus to get mad money if people love your dream and it takes off, but that's not the point of Indie development the point is for your idea, your dream, to get out there and be enjoyed by other people. So I feel to truly support Indies and the Indie ideal means to keep things at a cost which most anyone can afford.
Now that I've stated my mind, I'm sorry for posting in this blog and will try to further keep out of it.
01/26/2009 (6:24 pm)
I've tried to keep my mouth shut and not post on this blog but I can't keep myself contained any further and I apologize for that now.So now all the sudden Indie means you need a good bit of money? Correct me if I'm wrong but Indie means independent which a lot of independent entities don't usually have a ton of money to play with and that's not what matters to them. Yeah it's totally a bonus to get mad money if people love your dream and it takes off, but that's not the point of Indie development the point is for your idea, your dream, to get out there and be enjoyed by other people. So I feel to truly support Indies and the Indie ideal means to keep things at a cost which most anyone can afford.
Now that I've stated my mind, I'm sorry for posting in this blog and will try to further keep out of it.
#8
Again I say, Indie means independent. Independent of 3rd party management and funding. So most projects are self-funded, which could result with teams working on a smaller budget.
However, there are plenty of successful Indie teams and studios that worked on projects with a wide range of budgets. I do not think it is fair to equate Indie to cheap/free.
01/26/2009 (6:33 pm)
@Scott - I think cost is a result, not the definition. Again I say, Indie means independent. Independent of 3rd party management and funding. So most projects are self-funded, which could result with teams working on a smaller budget.
However, there are plenty of successful Indie teams and studios that worked on projects with a wide range of budgets. I do not think it is fair to equate Indie to cheap/free.
#9
There has been alot of debate on what you get for what you pay though. Just remember that T3D is still TGEA 1.8.1 improved. Yes there are going to be more features and some of the tools reworked. But at it's heart its still going to be the same game engine that is still based upon TGE from so long ago. T3D is not a complete ground up new game engine. If your expecting that or expecting to get Unreal Engine features at the price of what T3D is going to be offered at then you are sadly dreaming of something that wont happen.
There has been some debate of if the license will be on a per title or per project or free flowing like TGE and TGEAs license is.
There has also been debate on the new direction GG is moving in with the new management at the helm. Some people do not like the new direction and some of us think it goes ageanst what the original GG vision was back in 2001.
I have no problem paying $1k or more for a quality engine. Provided that I also get due fair support from the people that made that engine. TGE and TGEA has always been on the very low cost side. In return we the community have picked up the support side of things and also came up with alot of the core features that makeup TGE and TGEA today.
As far as the whole Unity engine goes. Well Cartoon Network has a massive MMORPG going on that uses Unity and its fastly becomeing the #2 US based MMO because of its easy of access and fun gameplay. The graphics are not all that bad and it packs alot of things a modern MMO would have in it.
01/26/2009 (6:33 pm)
I don't think that anyone is complaining about the price of what T3D will be. Atleast I haven't seen any of that.There has been alot of debate on what you get for what you pay though. Just remember that T3D is still TGEA 1.8.1 improved. Yes there are going to be more features and some of the tools reworked. But at it's heart its still going to be the same game engine that is still based upon TGE from so long ago. T3D is not a complete ground up new game engine. If your expecting that or expecting to get Unreal Engine features at the price of what T3D is going to be offered at then you are sadly dreaming of something that wont happen.
There has been some debate of if the license will be on a per title or per project or free flowing like TGE and TGEAs license is.
There has also been debate on the new direction GG is moving in with the new management at the helm. Some people do not like the new direction and some of us think it goes ageanst what the original GG vision was back in 2001.
I have no problem paying $1k or more for a quality engine. Provided that I also get due fair support from the people that made that engine. TGE and TGEA has always been on the very low cost side. In return we the community have picked up the support side of things and also came up with alot of the core features that makeup TGE and TGEA today.
As far as the whole Unity engine goes. Well Cartoon Network has a massive MMORPG going on that uses Unity and its fastly becomeing the #2 US based MMO because of its easy of access and fun gameplay. The graphics are not all that bad and it packs alot of things a modern MMO would have in it.
#10
01/26/2009 (6:35 pm)
@Thomas - That MMO project was canceled.
#11
Hopefully, someone at GarageGames will read this, because I think it is VITAL if you want to see higher quality games come out. With the recent change to the website, this has been made even worse, because now it is near impossible to go back and read all the awesome resources submitted and categorized. Learning by example is the way I'm betting mostly everyone in this community has learned Torque.
I will not buy any more versions simply because documentation has been sidestepped for so long. I've contributed to TDN in the past, but ultimately it was difficult to convince others to put useful information there. I will buy the next version of Torque (for whatever the price) if documentation is addressed. Nothing more.
01/26/2009 (6:35 pm)
I WOULD pay lots more if there were more work put into documentation. This doesn't mean that the doc team at GG right now isn't doing awesome work (because I absolutely KNOW they are), but dedicating more information to how the engine works, how it's put together, and how we can go about improving it will benefit customers and this community much more than extra shaders, graphics techniques, etc will.Hopefully, someone at GarageGames will read this, because I think it is VITAL if you want to see higher quality games come out. With the recent change to the website, this has been made even worse, because now it is near impossible to go back and read all the awesome resources submitted and categorized. Learning by example is the way I'm betting mostly everyone in this community has learned Torque.
I will not buy any more versions simply because documentation has been sidestepped for so long. I've contributed to TDN in the past, but ultimately it was difficult to convince others to put useful information there. I will buy the next version of Torque (for whatever the price) if documentation is addressed. Nothing more.
#12
01/26/2009 (6:38 pm)
@Frogger - Documentation is being written from from scratch, and will be extremely polished and contain highly useful information. It will also receive massive documentation updates throughout the year, and I'm not talking simple grammar cleanup.
#13
My point is that what counts as a "gimped engine" (great term, BTW) is going to be different between customers. Visuals and eye candy will help you sell a game, but they don't help much with making a game. If T3D helps you make games, then customers that value that capability will pay almost whatever GG decides to charge. If T3D helps you sell games, then customers that value that will pay for that as well.
01/26/2009 (6:46 pm)
@Syllus: I understand your point -- I'm generally in agreement with tiered licensing terms.My point is that what counts as a "gimped engine" (great term, BTW) is going to be different between customers. Visuals and eye candy will help you sell a game, but they don't help much with making a game. If T3D helps you make games, then customers that value that capability will pay almost whatever GG decides to charge. If T3D helps you sell games, then customers that value that will pay for that as well.
#14
No, this is not what I am saying at all, what I am saying is that there is a realistic differene between hobbyist and indie development. Indie developement means simply that the company is independantly funded, no fancy publishers throwing cash dollars at it etc. Where I feel the difference between hobbyist and indie lies is within the final scope of the project, as both are "independantly funded". What I mean by that is, are you developing a game that you have an idea for simply because you want to develop it and share some fun with others, or are you developing it with real plans of distribtuion and marketing success. This is where I see the difference. IMO an indie developer is still developing a game that they plan on obtaining full market distribution with and bringing in a revenue to support there company... not just placed on a shopping cart on a website and sold to a handful of gamers at $20 a pop. To me that is hobbyist development... not indie. And it is on these terms that I feel that the statement
is inadequate.
My versioin of that statement, as someone who is avidly trying to independantly develop a title that I expect to sell and make money off of, would be more along the lines of "So I feel to truly support Indies and the Indie ideal means to provide tools that will truly allow me to stay competitive with the bigger companies, while still keeping it affordable enough for a small operation that doesn't have outside funding."
In closing, no I am not saying that in order to be an "indie developer" you have to have a lot of money, but you do have to have some, because you are funding your own project... what I am saying is that if you are serious about developing an indie title, then you should already realize that there are going to be some development costs... regardless of how minor they may be, and that for a product that you fully see as being distributed and bringing in a steady stream of revenue, the moderate investments that have been speculatively discussed for T3D are not much to ask.
IMHO:
Hobbyist Developer: one who wants to develop an idea they are passionate about with little or no money involved (Sweat Equity), and is willing to sacrifice technology & quality to maintain a little or no cost dev cycle.
Independant Developer: one who develops a title to distribute and sell under their own management and their own funding, and strives to stay competitive with the bigger companies while doing so.
Dreamer: one who wants to develop a nextgen title that can compete in todays entertainment market, and wants to make lots of money doing it, while maintaining a no cost development cycle. :)
@ Andy: Ok I agree 100% on that. :)
01/26/2009 (6:48 pm)
@ Scott,Quote:So now all the sudden Indie means you need a good bit of money?
No, this is not what I am saying at all, what I am saying is that there is a realistic differene between hobbyist and indie development. Indie developement means simply that the company is independantly funded, no fancy publishers throwing cash dollars at it etc. Where I feel the difference between hobbyist and indie lies is within the final scope of the project, as both are "independantly funded". What I mean by that is, are you developing a game that you have an idea for simply because you want to develop it and share some fun with others, or are you developing it with real plans of distribtuion and marketing success. This is where I see the difference. IMO an indie developer is still developing a game that they plan on obtaining full market distribution with and bringing in a revenue to support there company... not just placed on a shopping cart on a website and sold to a handful of gamers at $20 a pop. To me that is hobbyist development... not indie. And it is on these terms that I feel that the statement
Quote:to truly support Indies and the Indie ideal means to keep things at a cost which most anyone can afford
is inadequate.
My versioin of that statement, as someone who is avidly trying to independantly develop a title that I expect to sell and make money off of, would be more along the lines of "So I feel to truly support Indies and the Indie ideal means to provide tools that will truly allow me to stay competitive with the bigger companies, while still keeping it affordable enough for a small operation that doesn't have outside funding."
In closing, no I am not saying that in order to be an "indie developer" you have to have a lot of money, but you do have to have some, because you are funding your own project... what I am saying is that if you are serious about developing an indie title, then you should already realize that there are going to be some development costs... regardless of how minor they may be, and that for a product that you fully see as being distributed and bringing in a steady stream of revenue, the moderate investments that have been speculatively discussed for T3D are not much to ask.
IMHO:
Hobbyist Developer: one who wants to develop an idea they are passionate about with little or no money involved (Sweat Equity), and is willing to sacrifice technology & quality to maintain a little or no cost dev cycle.
Independant Developer: one who develops a title to distribute and sell under their own management and their own funding, and strives to stay competitive with the bigger companies while doing so.
Dreamer: one who wants to develop a nextgen title that can compete in todays entertainment market, and wants to make lots of money doing it, while maintaining a no cost development cycle. :)
@ Andy: Ok I agree 100% on that. :)
#15
you see c4 where it say lifetime updates free well you think they will be able to keep up on a engine that has income i don't think they will. t3d will soon be far far ahead in tec then these other engines but it will cost you to have a engine far ahead of the other indie engines or i should say other hobbyist's engines. :P like Syllus said he even values "ease of use and development capabilities" more then anything just like everyone else and i think as we are paying more money that is one thing that will be done as that's what everyone here is saying they value most.
01/26/2009 (7:02 pm)
yes allot of stuff with be in the updates of t3d for years to come and documentation will be updated. that's why we will be paying a higher price and that's why updates will cost money now as they need money to pay the people to work on that stuff. no one works for free here at lest not anymore they got allot of new people in the gg team and they are all working hard to bring us the very best. this is the way all engines should be so they can update faster.you see c4 where it say lifetime updates free well you think they will be able to keep up on a engine that has income i don't think they will. t3d will soon be far far ahead in tec then these other engines but it will cost you to have a engine far ahead of the other indie engines or i should say other hobbyist's engines. :P like Syllus said he even values "ease of use and development capabilities" more then anything just like everyone else and i think as we are paying more money that is one thing that will be done as that's what everyone here is saying they value most.
#16
Money is not the issue.. at least it's not if it's kept reasonable (ie not 2000.00 and above).
I can only speak for me. And for me, what makes engines like Unity attractive has nothing to do with eye candy. Don't get me wrong, I love eye candy and T3D looks like it's going to have it in spades. To me, it's all about the pipeline and ease of use. I love TGEA, and most likely will be buying T3D. Having said that, TGEA's pipeline and ease of use.. whats the word.. oh yea.. suck. This was not a issue that GG created. It's not about fault for me. I have read/heard rumors that T3D is going to "fix" many of these issues, and if it does, combined with the new techy eye candy.. the argument of T3D verses other engines becomes moot. Unless.. they price themselves out of the market, which I don't think they will.
with all of those things done, asking in the 1000.00 range is NOT over the top.
Sure, I'm a single father of three.. and next Christmas there might not be presents under the tree.. and of course.. when they ask me why not, I'll show them pictures of Perry, Fairfax, and Brett and say they did this to you! But besides that, its all good! ;)
01/26/2009 (7:18 pm)
Quote:"ease of use and development capabilities"
Money is not the issue.. at least it's not if it's kept reasonable (ie not 2000.00 and above).
I can only speak for me. And for me, what makes engines like Unity attractive has nothing to do with eye candy. Don't get me wrong, I love eye candy and T3D looks like it's going to have it in spades. To me, it's all about the pipeline and ease of use. I love TGEA, and most likely will be buying T3D. Having said that, TGEA's pipeline and ease of use.. whats the word.. oh yea.. suck. This was not a issue that GG created. It's not about fault for me. I have read/heard rumors that T3D is going to "fix" many of these issues, and if it does, combined with the new techy eye candy.. the argument of T3D verses other engines becomes moot. Unless.. they price themselves out of the market, which I don't think they will.
with all of those things done, asking in the 1000.00 range is NOT over the top.
Sure, I'm a single father of three.. and next Christmas there might not be presents under the tree.. and of course.. when they ask me why not, I'll show them pictures of Perry, Fairfax, and Brett and say they did this to you! But besides that, its all good! ;)
#17
01/26/2009 (7:29 pm)
Great, another Christmas ruined by the Mich-Grinch...my Christmas popularity is plummeting...
#18
01/26/2009 (7:32 pm)
Quote:or instance the project I am working on now, requires the ability to run on walls and even ceilings... this flat out would not be possible in GG engines if we did not have access to the source...yet this is totally possible in Unity without having access to source code *ducks*
#19
http://www.massively.com/photos/first-impressions-fusionfall/
01/26/2009 (7:32 pm)
Michael - No it wasn't. It was released just afew weeks ago. It's known as FusionFall. You should check it out. It already has over a million players playing it.http://www.massively.com/photos/first-impressions-fusionfall/
#20
see now that's what i am talking about risking things to get something you really want not saying taking your kids presents is such a good thing. it points out that if you don't have allot of money but want something that could very well help you make more money that you should risk some things for that. i am risking allot more then allot of people to put my game out there. its well worth the risk to me i don't have allot of money but i risk things that can be risked just so i can produce a game that will make more money. i take the money off that to make a even better game so on so forth. i have allot of games i would like to produce but there's no way i giving anyone my game idea's so it can be produced i rather do it my self and go though all the troubles doing it then give it away.
i know t3d will be good from what i seen and i know what they will be working on so they can sell the engine for a higher price. even if documentation is not perfect or ease of use is not perfect it will still be allot better then the other engines they have made so far. it will also continue to be a good engine as long as they have money coming to them.
01/26/2009 (7:34 pm)
"Sure, I'm a single father of three.. and next Christmas there might not be presents under the tree.. and of course.. when they ask me why not, I'll show them pictures of Perry, Fairfax, and Brett and say they did this to you! But besides that, its all good! ;)"see now that's what i am talking about risking things to get something you really want not saying taking your kids presents is such a good thing. it points out that if you don't have allot of money but want something that could very well help you make more money that you should risk some things for that. i am risking allot more then allot of people to put my game out there. its well worth the risk to me i don't have allot of money but i risk things that can be risked just so i can produce a game that will make more money. i take the money off that to make a even better game so on so forth. i have allot of games i would like to produce but there's no way i giving anyone my game idea's so it can be produced i rather do it my self and go though all the troubles doing it then give it away.
i know t3d will be good from what i seen and i know what they will be working on so they can sell the engine for a higher price. even if documentation is not perfect or ease of use is not perfect it will still be allot better then the other engines they have made so far. it will also continue to be a good engine as long as they have money coming to them.
Torque Owner Taylor Wiebe