Actually, I think that the community is unified...
by James Brad Barnette · 01/15/2009 (9:13 am) · 20 comments
Actually, I think that the community is unified. I think that the disconnect here is the between GG and the community.
From what I have read the community doesn't seem fractured. I think they seem pretty unified, from what I have read. The thing is they are unified in thinking that GG has completely missed the mark on this one.
From what I have seen about properly rolled out sites:
Whether it is Bank of America or Vonage or amazon. If you are a website with a membership the size of GG's you don't just switch one day with one f***ing days notice. That last part is the most inexcusable
I have often noticed that website with large user bases will often run both sites in parallel to each other to give users a chance to try out the new site, and to get feed back. This will often go on for about 6 months but, I have seen it go on for over a year. Then once you feel that you have answered the userbase with the features requested and fixed all of the bugs to you close the old site and ALL traffic goto the new site.
Testing....
Hmm well guys I'm REALLY I mean REALLY having a hard time believing that any testing was done on this. Honestly no editing of post.??? really? wtf I'm sorry but even the most basic of testing should have caught something like that. I mean like 5 dozen people found it within a couple hours. And you tell me that you guys worked on this for that long about 2 years from what I have been told. but that is not officialand you missed that one? really?
From Wikipedia
Incompetence:the inability to perform; lack of Competence; ineptitude.
Seriously if this were the real world and not the GG website. MANY people would have gotten sacked over this.
The person that gave the go ahead to launch the new site without adequate testing should be sacked immediately.
I know several web developers that say that they cannot believe that the site was rolled out like this. They say they would have lost their jobs for sure if they had pulled a stunt like that. One went as far as to say not only would he have gotten sacked but, most likely his boss would have been sacked as well.
I bet if you guys had bungled the instant action site like this some heads would have rolled by now.
Over-unification hmm sound like a "Bush-ism"
Over-unification is what you did "among other things that I wont go into here as there are younger readers" to the forums. What in god's name possessed you to take every single art sub forums and throw them all in to one. Are you insane. Do you know how impossible you have made this to navigate?
when people bitched about the forums it was not about the structure it was about search ability and functionality and dependability and not eating you post that you just spent an hour or so writing.
You took a couple hundred people that all had separate conversation and then threw them all in to a 10x10 room.
look this is what needs to happen.
1: Bring back old forum structur it wasn't broken in the first place.
2: the initial post should only be on the first page haveing to scroll the first half of every page becaue the initial post is on ever page is very annoying.
3: tighten up the white-space there is to much wasted space. Especially the "whats New" page you used to fit the titles of like 2 does link now you can barely fit 2 topic is the space that you used to have the whole page
4: I know this is already on the bug list but seriously it should have been online already it has been over 24 hours. A bug like that should be fixed within 4 to 8 hours tops!
Anyway I'm gonna go try to sort through this and get some work done.
PS really guys one of you guys needs to get in front of this. you need to tell people when some of this stuff is gonna start getting fixed and if some things are not going to be fixed then why. ignoring it is not going to help. Deb, Derek, someone please.
From what I have read the community doesn't seem fractured. I think they seem pretty unified, from what I have read. The thing is they are unified in thinking that GG has completely missed the mark on this one.
From what I have seen about properly rolled out sites:
Whether it is Bank of America or Vonage or amazon. If you are a website with a membership the size of GG's you don't just switch one day with one f***ing days notice. That last part is the most inexcusable
I have often noticed that website with large user bases will often run both sites in parallel to each other to give users a chance to try out the new site, and to get feed back. This will often go on for about 6 months but, I have seen it go on for over a year. Then once you feel that you have answered the userbase with the features requested and fixed all of the bugs to you close the old site and ALL traffic goto the new site.
Testing....
Hmm well guys I'm REALLY I mean REALLY having a hard time believing that any testing was done on this. Honestly no editing of post.??? really? wtf I'm sorry but even the most basic of testing should have caught something like that. I mean like 5 dozen people found it within a couple hours. And you tell me that you guys worked on this for that long about 2 years from what I have been told. but that is not officialand you missed that one? really?
From Wikipedia
Incompetence:the inability to perform; lack of Competence; ineptitude.
Seriously if this were the real world and not the GG website. MANY people would have gotten sacked over this.
The person that gave the go ahead to launch the new site without adequate testing should be sacked immediately.
I know several web developers that say that they cannot believe that the site was rolled out like this. They say they would have lost their jobs for sure if they had pulled a stunt like that. One went as far as to say not only would he have gotten sacked but, most likely his boss would have been sacked as well.
I bet if you guys had bungled the instant action site like this some heads would have rolled by now.
Over-unification hmm sound like a "Bush-ism"
Over-unification is what you did "among other things that I wont go into here as there are younger readers" to the forums. What in god's name possessed you to take every single art sub forums and throw them all in to one. Are you insane. Do you know how impossible you have made this to navigate?
when people bitched about the forums it was not about the structure it was about search ability and functionality and dependability and not eating you post that you just spent an hour or so writing.
You took a couple hundred people that all had separate conversation and then threw them all in to a 10x10 room.
look this is what needs to happen.
1: Bring back old forum structur it wasn't broken in the first place.
2: the initial post should only be on the first page haveing to scroll the first half of every page becaue the initial post is on ever page is very annoying.
3: tighten up the white-space there is to much wasted space. Especially the "whats New" page you used to fit the titles of like 2 does link now you can barely fit 2 topic is the space that you used to have the whole page
4: I know this is already on the bug list but seriously it should have been online already it has been over 24 hours. A bug like that should be fixed within 4 to 8 hours tops!
Anyway I'm gonna go try to sort through this and get some work done.
PS really guys one of you guys needs to get in front of this. you need to tell people when some of this stuff is gonna start getting fixed and if some things are not going to be fixed then why. ignoring it is not going to help. Deb, Derek, someone please.
About the author
#2
While I think the tone is a little off, I agree on the criticism to the rollout process. Switching the website to a half-implemented one isn't a good thing even if you then go and incrementally pick up on all the broken stuff. That's got no place in a release setting.
01/15/2009 (9:23 am)
While I think the tone is a little off, I agree on the criticism to the rollout process. Switching the website to a half-implemented one isn't a good thing even if you then go and incrementally pick up on all the broken stuff. That's got no place in a release setting.
#3
And being primarily a web developer, I too have a hard time believing this was properly QA'd or usability tested. In my experience it is not a good idea to leave final testing or UAT to the people that developed the product. They are the proud parent and don't want to see the flaws in their child. I for one would have been happier if the associates had been used for UAT, they are the ones that are probably on the site more than anyone. That simple step would have helped the community accept the changes and would have insured a better less stressful upgrade.
01/15/2009 (9:33 am)
The best thing GG could do right now is post their hit list of things they are working on. I know they are busy but the same concerns are being posted over and over again. If they would just post a list that would help settle things down. And being primarily a web developer, I too have a hard time believing this was properly QA'd or usability tested. In my experience it is not a good idea to leave final testing or UAT to the people that developed the product. They are the proud parent and don't want to see the flaws in their child. I for one would have been happier if the associates had been used for UAT, they are the ones that are probably on the site more than anyone. That simple step would have helped the community accept the changes and would have insured a better less stressful upgrade.
#4
01/15/2009 (9:35 am)
yeah I mean for the last 6 month there should have been a link on the main page only available to registered user that said come check out the beta version of our site and leave feed back. If that had been done for the last 6 months then I can guarantee you that 90% of the issues that exist in this new site would not there. 
#5
I don't work on the web site, but I can tell you that for the past couple weeks they've been putting in weekends and late nights to make sure that what went live was as stable as it possibly could be and right now they are cranking away based on the feedback gotten. Keep in mind that only constructive feedback is helpful, anything else just creates noise and will ensure you make it much harder for the right people to find the right info you want them to have.
01/15/2009 (10:13 am)
There have been official responses, though in all the amazing amount of posts it's easy to not see them. I myself had last Friday off for moving (still sore, gotta love moving heh) and hopped on that night (when I got my computer hooked back up to the net) and skimmed through the piles of responses and found multiple ones from fellow GGers.I don't work on the web site, but I can tell you that for the past couple weeks they've been putting in weekends and late nights to make sure that what went live was as stable as it possibly could be and right now they are cranking away based on the feedback gotten. Keep in mind that only constructive feedback is helpful, anything else just creates noise and will ensure you make it much harder for the right people to find the right info you want them to have.
#6
I don't think that calling for people to be sacked or posting lots of seperate topics though is very helpful from our perspective, especially many have mentioned that the "What's New" page doesn't show many blogs now.. so the blog where Deborah has been posting feedback is being pushed off the page.
Yes it wasn't implemented well and could be improved but guys lets not make things worse by pouring fuel on the fire from every direction, what's done is done. We're far more likely to get results by being constructive and having one place to feedback on what we'd like to see top of the list of fixes.
01/15/2009 (10:36 am)
Yeah as Matt says there have been official responses back unfortunately with the volume of blogs and forums posts springing up on the issue it's hard for anyone to keep up with things!I don't think that calling for people to be sacked or posting lots of seperate topics though is very helpful from our perspective, especially many have mentioned that the "What's New" page doesn't show many blogs now.. so the blog where Deborah has been posting feedback is being pushed off the page.
Yes it wasn't implemented well and could be improved but guys lets not make things worse by pouring fuel on the fire from every direction, what's done is done. We're far more likely to get results by being constructive and having one place to feedback on what we'd like to see top of the list of fixes.
#7
I can understand some people are still worried about the pricing for T3D and there is certainly a lot of frustration about missing features or broken pieces like not being able to log into TDN.
Do I think that the public relations of the site could have been a little bit better? Yeah, it would have been nice to have some community feedback and testing of the new site before it went live. Even a list f features getting the axe with the new features and a short explanation why, like the change from user names to email addresses prior to the new site go-live. Time for it all to sink in might have prevented or at least toned some reactions.
However, I would say that despite what is going on, this has been no way license to see some of the antics I have seen. A lot seems to be a bad case of knee jerk reactions and it is a bit disappointing. I would imagine it is much more so for someone such as yourself who used to be just a regular Joe or Jill community member that with hard work for your passion turned into a job! :-)
It would be better served for everyone if people would express their concern or disappointment more constructively.
01/15/2009 (10:38 am)
@Matthew, I think one point of frustration for people might be identifying who is an official GG rep. Unless you have been around awhile, a person might not know.I can understand some people are still worried about the pricing for T3D and there is certainly a lot of frustration about missing features or broken pieces like not being able to log into TDN.
Do I think that the public relations of the site could have been a little bit better? Yeah, it would have been nice to have some community feedback and testing of the new site before it went live. Even a list f features getting the axe with the new features and a short explanation why, like the change from user names to email addresses prior to the new site go-live. Time for it all to sink in might have prevented or at least toned some reactions.
However, I would say that despite what is going on, this has been no way license to see some of the antics I have seen. A lot seems to be a bad case of knee jerk reactions and it is a bit disappointing. I would imagine it is much more so for someone such as yourself who used to be just a regular Joe or Jill community member that with hard work for your passion turned into a job! :-)
It would be better served for everyone if people would express their concern or disappointment more constructively.
#8
01/15/2009 (11:23 am)
Both very valid and constructive comments :)
#9
About the forums, I really dislike the new ones. They were over-merged, maybe to consolidate inactive sub-forums to give a greater impression of activity. That's not my problem though, they're just not pleasant to review. I liked having all of the forums clearly listed, it was easy to find which ones were updated.
Not that it's structural, but the information on the various engines is much more easy to understand now. Good job on that part.
01/15/2009 (12:28 pm)
The Ameritrade site ran their new one for months and months before making the change official. The new site isn't so bad, but having TDN be offline is unacceptable.About the forums, I really dislike the new ones. They were over-merged, maybe to consolidate inactive sub-forums to give a greater impression of activity. That's not my problem though, they're just not pleasant to review. I liked having all of the forums clearly listed, it was easy to find which ones were updated.
Not that it's structural, but the information on the various engines is much more easy to understand now. Good job on that part.
#10
look this is what needs to happen
simmer the f down.
01/15/2009 (12:55 pm)
Really? Is this serious? Ha ha ha, the half-assed wikipdia incompetence reference is too much!look this is what needs to happen
simmer the f down.
#11
Definitely an issue that needs to be resolved. We need to bring back the old "Employee", "Associate", etc. titles. And expand them... so for example, with Deborah we might see "Employee (Customer Relations)" or for just a community member, "Torque Owner (TGE, TGEA)". Then it would be clear (again) exactly who the go-to people are around here.
@Jameson Bennett: Yeah, you're really doing your part to help us "simmer the f down" aren't you.
01/15/2009 (2:19 pm)
Quote:@Matthew, I think one point of frustration for people might be identifying who is an official GG rep. Unless you have been around awhile, a person might not know.
Definitely an issue that needs to be resolved. We need to bring back the old "Employee", "Associate", etc. titles. And expand them... so for example, with Deborah we might see "Employee (Customer Relations)" or for just a community member, "Torque Owner (TGE, TGEA)". Then it would be clear (again) exactly who the go-to people are around here.
@Jameson Bennett: Yeah, you're really doing your part to help us "simmer the f down" aren't you.
#12
I'll just summarise, the mojority of us the 'silent majority' may grumble about the apparent lack of testing before implementation, yet we sit and wait, GG will fix all the bugs, and if we are lucky they will retest against ALL major browsers too (why do opera users alwasy get shafted by web designers) we usually sit watching the whiner vs fanboi wars that inevitably arise when any changes are ever made to anything (better comedy than paramount these days).
I havent retested all the broken features yet i figured i'd post here first, but my top fix list is as follows.
1) Resource downloads
2) TDN access
3) Opera compatability
01/15/2009 (2:58 pm)
I had a whole long post typed out... but then i decided that 'constructive criticism' is actually a myth, and the fanbois would flame regardless.I'll just summarise, the mojority of us the 'silent majority' may grumble about the apparent lack of testing before implementation, yet we sit and wait, GG will fix all the bugs, and if we are lucky they will retest against ALL major browsers too (why do opera users alwasy get shafted by web designers) we usually sit watching the whiner vs fanboi wars that inevitably arise when any changes are ever made to anything (better comedy than paramount these days).
I havent retested all the broken features yet i figured i'd post here first, but my top fix list is as follows.
1) Resource downloads
2) TDN access
3) Opera compatability
#13
for the record i like the new look of the site and i like the fcat that pages load faster than the old 20 second they used to take me to load, i didnt use the forums much and the ones i did read are untouched so i dont care about the others... but again they load in a few seconds rather than 20 or so so i'm happy with that too
01/15/2009 (3:00 pm)
4) edit button...for the record i like the new look of the site and i like the fcat that pages load faster than the old 20 second they used to take me to load, i didnt use the forums much and the ones i did read are untouched so i dont care about the others... but again they load in a few seconds rather than 20 or so so i'm happy with that too
#14
I think it's a great idea and I'd love to see it go one step further, I've been on some sites where you have the option of offering thanks to forum posts, blogs, resources, etc and then the number of thanks is shown on your profile or against your name.
Perhaps different tags to appear next to your name dependant on the number of thank you's recieved, it can help to get people more focused on offering support to each other, plus showing those community members going out of their way to support others.
01/15/2009 (5:20 pm)
Quote:Kevin Rogers wrote:
Definitely an issue that needs to be resolved. We need to bring back the old "Employee", "Associate", etc. titles. And expand them... so for example, with Deborah we might see "Employee (Customer Relations)" or for just a community member, "Torque Owner (TGE, TGEA)". Then it would be clear (again) exactly who the go-to people are around here.
I think it's a great idea and I'd love to see it go one step further, I've been on some sites where you have the option of offering thanks to forum posts, blogs, resources, etc and then the number of thanks is shown on your profile or against your name.
Perhaps different tags to appear next to your name dependant on the number of thank you's recieved, it can help to get people more focused on offering support to each other, plus showing those community members going out of their way to support others.
#15
That is what is truly great about the GG community, we get a truck full of lemons and people whip out the juicers, sombreros and tequila! or if it is a work night some good lemonade. :-)
And all this talk about lemons made me think of this Dilbert comic featuring the sourpuss.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/71843613_e824cf9419.jpg?v=0
01/15/2009 (6:26 pm)
@Andy and @ KevinThat is what is truly great about the GG community, we get a truck full of lemons and people whip out the juicers, sombreros and tequila! or if it is a work night some good lemonade. :-)
And all this talk about lemons made me think of this Dilbert comic featuring the sourpuss.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/15/71843613_e824cf9419.jpg?v=0
#16
A moose once bit my sister.
If you are a true indie programmer, you will know the origin of this term.
01/15/2009 (8:23 pm)
And now for something completely different. With all this talk of "sacking", I can't help but post this: A moose once bit my sister.
If you are a true indie programmer, you will know the origin of this term.
#17
01/15/2009 (10:46 pm)
@Jon Mitchell: Well, I really hate most of the changes to the new site! So I'm more than willing to make suggestions for improvement! =D
#18
01/15/2009 (10:49 pm)
@Andy: Quote:I've been on some sites where you have the option of offering thanks to forum posts, blogs, resources, etc and then the number of thanks is shown on your profile or against your name.Interesting... I haven't seen that before, but I'd be happy with something like that.
#19
01/15/2009 (11:43 pm)
I've never seen so many faces that have not been visible before come out of the shadows to comment. It just shows that the community voice is there. I'm sure GG are listening, and will do their best to get everything that needs to be implemented and working there. I agree they should have launched 100% working with all the bells and whistles but I'm sure they were given a deadline and it had to be met, albeit with functionality still missing. The old site was huge, and slow. this one enhanced further I'm sure will serve the community better. Worth just sitting back and see what happends.
#20
Yeah I think it's a mod for some of the forum software i.e. PhpBB and others vBulletin it's builtin option for a reputation system, been a while since I've looked at it but it works well, it's sometimes lambelled as Karma rather thank Thanks but it amounts to the same.
01/16/2009 (2:21 am)
Quote:Interesting... I haven't seen that before, but I'd be happy with something like that.
Yeah I think it's a mod for some of the forum software i.e. PhpBB and others vBulletin it's builtin option for a reputation system, been a while since I've looked at it but it works well, it's sometimes lambelled as Karma rather thank Thanks but it amounts to the same.
Torque Owner wiseman2
Kind of telling. Like flipping a switch and running out of the room.