Welcome to the new GarageGames.com!
by Jacob Fike · 01/13/2009 (6:28 pm) · 200 comments
Notice anything different around here? The GarageGames web team presents to you the first new look of GarageGames.com. Of course, there are a lot more changes around here than just getting a face-lift.
The web team was allowed out of jail to take this picture. Smiling bright and sunny are Derek and Jason on the left, in the shadows with hands in pockets are me and Ken on the right.
It's pretty established over here in Eugene that the GG.com website team is a quiet and reserved bunch, as opposed to the more extroverted Torque devs who are always eager to talk about new tech. However, it's probably good for you to get a quick overview of who made the site possible. I'm Jacob Fike (probably obvious given the blog header), and I've been working with GarageGames for two years now. I got my start by creating Overlord Management System system. I then went on to help create the Great Games Experiment and worked on the backend of InstantAction for a while before devoting myself full time to this site. Working beside me is an even more quiet guy, Jason Hetu, who did most of the design work for the site and likes bran muffins (ask him about that later). Also heavily involved in the content and design of the new site were Derek Bronson (for better marketing of our 3rd party products), Eric Fritz (for marketing and usability), Davey Jackson and Michael Blenden (for the needs of educators who visit the site), and Ken Holst and Jeff Hojnacke (for testing).
And HUGE THANKS to the Operations team. First lead by Jay Arrera, and then Jeff Cassar, we wouldn't have been able to post the site up so quickly. Eli Janssen (who doesn't have a profile page since he's too busy making this all work) in particular put in a ridiculous amount of overtime to get this live. We salute you and your beard, Eli.
For anyone who has been here any length of time, you know the old site was beginning to show its age. Although it was still functional, it looked and acted like a site that had been built in the early 1990s. A myriad of web devs had added some cool things to the site over time like community web blogging, snapshots, etc., but maintaining the site was becoming something of a task from a backend perspective since it had ballooned so much. It was due for a much needed overhaul to take advantage of new technologies that made coding and maintenance much easier over the course of the last few years. And, of course, from a usability perspective, there were just too many pages (many of them hard to find if you didn't know the site well), so it was also time to make it easier for new users to navigate through our site.
(And just between you and me, we were kind of sick of the yellow. While it gave the site some personality bonus points, it also made it really hard to design nice art assets for the site. So we chose an easier-on-the-eyes color that would make your blog screenshots pop out of the page.)
Here are 11 links in one drop down and according to Google Analytics, they were rarely clicked on. Sad Panda.
Most of it is pretty self-explanatory. For example, we've simplified the navigation bar so that the entire site is linked through the pages on the top bar. The product pages have been condensed so everything you need to know is contained on one page. And a lot of functionality is staying the same for now, such as Markup Lite for blogs and forum posts. But there are few things that you should know as you familiarize yourself with the site:
Search has been revamped for the entire site. We knew a lot of you would be pleased with this one. The main search box will do a search on all sections of the site. However, each section has its own search box that will search only that type of content (blogs, for instance). The simple search box is smart enough to recognize most standard search queries like phrase matching (put multiple words in quotes to find that exact phase), specific field matches (i.e. author:Bob), and negative term matches (i.e. -dave would show results that do not contain the term dave). Pretty much anything you use on Google, you can use here. The Advanced Search even has the ability to search based on dates, and allows you to limit your searches all the way down to specific forums.
We have a support tab that contains links to all documentation, a form to submit bugs, and how to get paid support. For now, documentation links to the work Michael Perry started with the old site, but will slowly get revamped as he improves the doc system this year. The submit bugs form is similar to our old one, but much easier to find, so we get quicker feedback on our products. And finally, we will be processing requests for paid support, although that is likely geared toward the professional end of our users.
The What's New Page has been simplified to the most clicked on links. The old What's New Page had way too much content, and after some Google Analytic research, we decided to boil it down to the basics. We put GG blogs and other blogs we flag as "featured" right at the top. (Our old "Snapshots" feature has been replaced with these "Featured" blogs.) All other recent blogs also have screen real estate on the bottom of the page. We also have separate tabs for blogs, resources, and forums so you can keep track of those. We'll keep a close eye on how this new navigation is used and make improvements throughout the year.
All information on a single product is now contained within...the product's page. Remember the old days where you had to click on several pages to find information about a product? Even feature lists were on separate pages? Yeah, that sucked. And yeah, we fixed that, by having all information about a product put in tabs on one easily-found page. And now all products are under the "Products" drop-down. Hooray, consistency!
Logins are based on e-mail addresses, not handles. We decided to use e-mail addresses for our unique login because, well, they're unique by design, and people tend to remember them better than handles, which can change over time. Your e-mail address on the new site was the private e-mail you listed when you first registered on GG.com. However, for those of you that can't remember what that was, you'll notice on the login page that we have a place where you can still login under your old handle. Just know that we will eventually rely solely on e-mail addresses for all logins in a future build.
You no longer have pictures and other files uploaded to your profile. Due to the way we set up our initial backend, we decided not to support user uploaded files. Since profile pictures were the only real functionality must people took advantage off, we thought this was okay for initial launch.
Please do not use origin-www or the direct IP address to get to the new site. For the past year, we've been dealing with a rare, but frustrating issue through our CDN (Akamai) where users would get a screen that said "Service Unavailable" when trying to connect. To bypass Akamai and go around this error, some users have been entering the IP address for GG directly, or using origin-www.garage..... as an alternative. We're confident that the "Service Unavailable" issue will be disappearing entirely when the new site is up. It's being hosted in a different location, so connection issues to Akamai should be resolved. However, for each user that bypasses Akamai and connects to our hosted hardware directly, it plugs an available socket. If too many of these are plugged, Akamai can't process requests and neither can the hosted site. Please use www.garagegames.com exclusively from the time the new site is up and discontinue using origin-www or the direct IP. This should save us a lot of hassle and make the site operate faster for everyone who uses it.
Yeah, this is a massive post. I'm sure I've missed a couple things...my mind's kind of mush right now after all the work it's taken to get this far. Do know that we are nowhere near feature completeness of what we want the site to be able to do. More features will be rolled on a steady basis as we collect feedback and monitor site usage.
Welcome again to the new site, and post away with any issues you encounter or things you'd like to see. I'll address them as best as I can in follow-up site releases over the following weeks.
Who are you again?
The web team was allowed out of jail to take this picture. Smiling bright and sunny are Derek and Jason on the left, in the shadows with hands in pockets are me and Ken on the right.It's pretty established over here in Eugene that the GG.com website team is a quiet and reserved bunch, as opposed to the more extroverted Torque devs who are always eager to talk about new tech. However, it's probably good for you to get a quick overview of who made the site possible. I'm Jacob Fike (probably obvious given the blog header), and I've been working with GarageGames for two years now. I got my start by creating Overlord Management System system. I then went on to help create the Great Games Experiment and worked on the backend of InstantAction for a while before devoting myself full time to this site. Working beside me is an even more quiet guy, Jason Hetu, who did most of the design work for the site and likes bran muffins (ask him about that later). Also heavily involved in the content and design of the new site were Derek Bronson (for better marketing of our 3rd party products), Eric Fritz (for marketing and usability), Davey Jackson and Michael Blenden (for the needs of educators who visit the site), and Ken Holst and Jeff Hojnacke (for testing).
And HUGE THANKS to the Operations team. First lead by Jay Arrera, and then Jeff Cassar, we wouldn't have been able to post the site up so quickly. Eli Janssen (who doesn't have a profile page since he's too busy making this all work) in particular put in a ridiculous amount of overtime to get this live. We salute you and your beard, Eli.
Hey, I liked the yellow banners. Why bother with the change?
For anyone who has been here any length of time, you know the old site was beginning to show its age. Although it was still functional, it looked and acted like a site that had been built in the early 1990s. A myriad of web devs had added some cool things to the site over time like community web blogging, snapshots, etc., but maintaining the site was becoming something of a task from a backend perspective since it had ballooned so much. It was due for a much needed overhaul to take advantage of new technologies that made coding and maintenance much easier over the course of the last few years. And, of course, from a usability perspective, there were just too many pages (many of them hard to find if you didn't know the site well), so it was also time to make it easier for new users to navigate through our site.
(And just between you and me, we were kind of sick of the yellow. While it gave the site some personality bonus points, it also made it really hard to design nice art assets for the site. So we chose an easier-on-the-eyes color that would make your blog screenshots pop out of the page.)
Here are 11 links in one drop down and according to Google Analytics, they were rarely clicked on. Sad Panda.What should I know about the new site?
Most of it is pretty self-explanatory. For example, we've simplified the navigation bar so that the entire site is linked through the pages on the top bar. The product pages have been condensed so everything you need to know is contained on one page. And a lot of functionality is staying the same for now, such as Markup Lite for blogs and forum posts. But there are few things that you should know as you familiarize yourself with the site:
Search has been revamped for the entire site. We knew a lot of you would be pleased with this one. The main search box will do a search on all sections of the site. However, each section has its own search box that will search only that type of content (blogs, for instance). The simple search box is smart enough to recognize most standard search queries like phrase matching (put multiple words in quotes to find that exact phase), specific field matches (i.e. author:Bob), and negative term matches (i.e. -dave would show results that do not contain the term dave). Pretty much anything you use on Google, you can use here. The Advanced Search even has the ability to search based on dates, and allows you to limit your searches all the way down to specific forums.
We have a support tab that contains links to all documentation, a form to submit bugs, and how to get paid support. For now, documentation links to the work Michael Perry started with the old site, but will slowly get revamped as he improves the doc system this year. The submit bugs form is similar to our old one, but much easier to find, so we get quicker feedback on our products. And finally, we will be processing requests for paid support, although that is likely geared toward the professional end of our users.
The What's New Page has been simplified to the most clicked on links. The old What's New Page had way too much content, and after some Google Analytic research, we decided to boil it down to the basics. We put GG blogs and other blogs we flag as "featured" right at the top. (Our old "Snapshots" feature has been replaced with these "Featured" blogs.) All other recent blogs also have screen real estate on the bottom of the page. We also have separate tabs for blogs, resources, and forums so you can keep track of those. We'll keep a close eye on how this new navigation is used and make improvements throughout the year.
All information on a single product is now contained within...the product's page. Remember the old days where you had to click on several pages to find information about a product? Even feature lists were on separate pages? Yeah, that sucked. And yeah, we fixed that, by having all information about a product put in tabs on one easily-found page. And now all products are under the "Products" drop-down. Hooray, consistency!
Logins are based on e-mail addresses, not handles. We decided to use e-mail addresses for our unique login because, well, they're unique by design, and people tend to remember them better than handles, which can change over time. Your e-mail address on the new site was the private e-mail you listed when you first registered on GG.com. However, for those of you that can't remember what that was, you'll notice on the login page that we have a place where you can still login under your old handle. Just know that we will eventually rely solely on e-mail addresses for all logins in a future build.
You no longer have pictures and other files uploaded to your profile. Due to the way we set up our initial backend, we decided not to support user uploaded files. Since profile pictures were the only real functionality must people took advantage off, we thought this was okay for initial launch.
Please do not use origin-www or the direct IP address to get to the new site. For the past year, we've been dealing with a rare, but frustrating issue through our CDN (Akamai) where users would get a screen that said "Service Unavailable" when trying to connect. To bypass Akamai and go around this error, some users have been entering the IP address for GG directly, or using origin-www.garage..... as an alternative. We're confident that the "Service Unavailable" issue will be disappearing entirely when the new site is up. It's being hosted in a different location, so connection issues to Akamai should be resolved. However, for each user that bypasses Akamai and connects to our hosted hardware directly, it plugs an available socket. If too many of these are plugged, Akamai can't process requests and neither can the hosted site. Please use www.garagegames.com exclusively from the time the new site is up and discontinue using origin-www or the direct IP. This should save us a lot of hassle and make the site operate faster for everyone who uses it.
For someone who hasn't blogged since 2006, you sure talk a lot.
Yeah, this is a massive post. I'm sure I've missed a couple things...my mind's kind of mush right now after all the work it's taken to get this far. Do know that we are nowhere near feature completeness of what we want the site to be able to do. More features will be rolled on a steady basis as we collect feedback and monitor site usage.
Welcome again to the new site, and post away with any issues you encounter or things you'd like to see. I'll address them as best as I can in follow-up site releases over the following weeks.
About the author
As the CTO of Avalon Labs LLC, I am responsible for the technology behind Fellowstream, our team-based to-do list.
#102
I know some of that is just due to needing to adjust to layout changes, and I have a thing for dark colors so I'm not going to gripe about colors except to say that there's a marketing choice that should have been made here, but a lot of it is because the old features that are no longer here were a huge part of my "workflow" with this site. I'd come here, look at the blogs for everyone, look at the resources posted if it had the "new" thing on the tab, and then click on the "unread" forums. And it seems most other people did the same. That's all gone.
Don't get me wrong, I think the new search is great and the old site really did need some cleanup and redesign, but I think that if you were having known trouble with Google's search and indexing before, then why would you rely on it's analysis of site usage to build the new version of the site? It seems like the analytics were off as well.
And please bring back the super-long thread pages. Flipping through pages seems cool, but when you realize that you have to scroll down and then page anyway, it's just an added layer of complexity that's not needed.
01/14/2009 (9:31 am)
After a day of using this site, I honestly have to agree with everyone else. It sort of feels crippled...I know some of that is just due to needing to adjust to layout changes, and I have a thing for dark colors so I'm not going to gripe about colors except to say that there's a marketing choice that should have been made here, but a lot of it is because the old features that are no longer here were a huge part of my "workflow" with this site. I'd come here, look at the blogs for everyone, look at the resources posted if it had the "new" thing on the tab, and then click on the "unread" forums. And it seems most other people did the same. That's all gone.
Don't get me wrong, I think the new search is great and the old site really did need some cleanup and redesign, but I think that if you were having known trouble with Google's search and indexing before, then why would you rely on it's analysis of site usage to build the new version of the site? It seems like the analytics were off as well.
And please bring back the super-long thread pages. Flipping through pages seems cool, but when you realize that you have to scroll down and then page anyway, it's just an added layer of complexity that's not needed.
#103
On this new "modern" and "up to date" GarageGames website I like how I can look at someones blog and click through pages and pages of comments without having to reload and scroll through a long winded blog every 10 comments.
Oh wait, I can't.
I also like how the new website also gave us a new linux build of TGB, TGE and TGEA.
There surely wouldn't be a recent blog from a community member wanting to sell a depth of field shader if TGEA already had it built in?
Not to mention
# Post processing:
* Depth of Field (???)
* Refraction
* Glow
* Blurring
* Color Correction
Real-time Screen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO / FSAO) (???)
Physics
Torque includes efficiently networked physics functionality, and is built with an abstracted C++ Physics API for use with other major 3rd party physics libraries as well. Sample implementations include:
* PhysX
* Bullet
* ODE
"Hundreds of Casual Games on every major portal"
Really???
Luckly some of this GG love didn't make it's way into Overlord
cause it might actually work on a web server I try and install it on sometime.
And I thought being in the Army was stressful.
01/14/2009 (9:43 am)
sigh...Quote:
"For anyone who has been here any length of time, you know the old site was beginning to show its age. Although it was still functional, it looked and acted like a site that had been built in the early 1990s."
On this new "modern" and "up to date" GarageGames website I like how I can look at someones blog and click through pages and pages of comments without having to reload and scroll through a long winded blog every 10 comments.
Oh wait, I can't.
I also like how the new website also gave us a new linux build of TGB, TGE and TGEA.
There surely wouldn't be a recent blog from a community member wanting to sell a depth of field shader if TGEA already had it built in?
Not to mention
# Post processing:
* Depth of Field (???)
* Refraction
* Glow
* Blurring
* Color Correction
Real-time Screen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO / FSAO) (???)
Physics
Torque includes efficiently networked physics functionality, and is built with an abstracted C++ Physics API for use with other major 3rd party physics libraries as well. Sample implementations include:
* PhysX
* Bullet
* ODE
"Hundreds of Casual Games on every major portal"
Really???
Luckly some of this GG love didn't make it's way into Overlord
cause it might actually work on a web server I try and install it on sometime.
And I thought being in the Army was stressful.
#104
I echo this by the way.
Can I license the Push Button Engine please?
01/14/2009 (9:45 am)
Quote:
I'm supposed to be supportive, but I have to say I am saddened, and I have to speak up. The community functions of GarageGames have been decimated. I am sure it is harder for me, one of the founders with the original vision for community and Indie support, but I think this will be a loss for Indie game developers.
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder GarageGames
I echo this by the way.
Can I license the Push Button Engine please?
#105
I know you will hear a lot of complaining about the new site because of the community issues, it is simply that we, as users, consider that to be the most important part of the entire website and will be very dissapointed if it moves to a "sales oriented with a little community functionality on the side" type of site.
I do want to point out that I see and recognize all the hard work and effort that has been poured into the new site. If you can take the new sales/advertising portion of the site... and bring back the usability and functionality of the old community portion of the site, I think that you will have a definate winner. Just wanted to point that out because there are so many negative posts (my own included) about the new site that the deserved appreciation for the hard work and imo successful deployment of the new "sales site", could easily get overlooked. So... great job!!! On the sales site... now please bring back the "community site" lol
01/14/2009 (9:45 am)
On a side note, I would like to point out that the sales side of the site looks absolutely beautiful. It does a wonderful job of displaying the product, media for the product, and info about the product. I know you will hear a lot of complaining about the new site because of the community issues, it is simply that we, as users, consider that to be the most important part of the entire website and will be very dissapointed if it moves to a "sales oriented with a little community functionality on the side" type of site.
I do want to point out that I see and recognize all the hard work and effort that has been poured into the new site. If you can take the new sales/advertising portion of the site... and bring back the usability and functionality of the old community portion of the site, I think that you will have a definate winner. Just wanted to point that out because there are so many negative posts (my own included) about the new site that the deserved appreciation for the hard work and imo successful deployment of the new "sales site", could easily get overlooked. So... great job!!! On the sales site... now please bring back the "community site" lol
#106
01/14/2009 (9:50 am)
Syllus your last post is spot on to how I think as well. Congrats to the web team for the product pages design but the community needs attention now. :) 
#107
01/14/2009 (9:51 am)
I think that "Google analytics" tool must have been lying to you guys. Talk about a huge increase in lack of usefulness. I keep seeing the same complaints over and over. You're killing the community spirit here - but then I guess that's inline with GG want & need to market to "professional" now.
#108
I saw mention in an early post (in this or some other thread) about a meeting this morning regarding the Web site changes. Is any GG employee available to comment on the outcome yet? Also, if there an update on or estimated time frame regarding TDN accessibility would be great, too.
01/14/2009 (10:03 am)
The sight looks great and I personally appreciate the hard work and time that went into the redesign, but I have to agree with everyone else regarding usability and and community. Some things obviously need to be corrected sooner rather than later.I saw mention in an early post (in this or some other thread) about a meeting this morning regarding the Web site changes. Is any GG employee available to comment on the outcome yet? Also, if there an update on or estimated time frame regarding TDN accessibility would be great, too.
#109
Again, I don't mind the colors. But I hate paging through a post, it is taking way too much time to do what I use to do quickly.
01/14/2009 (10:14 am)
It would be nice to hear from GG about these issues. Usually they are all over the forums but they seem to be missing today. I don't mind the look of the site, but I do mind the removal of functionality that was what made this site so usefull. Granted there will always be growing pains when a site is revamped, but this seems like a very bad deployment. The old links need to be mapped to the new one. Resource download links need to work. And I recentlty discovered that if you select the check box to be notified in a forum post and then go back, it will not be saved. To me the site seriously needed more QA time and a usability study. They could have beta tested the site with the associates at the minimum for usability. Again, I don't mind the colors. But I hate paging through a post, it is taking way too much time to do what I use to do quickly.
#110
(for now anyway)
QFT:
01/14/2009 (10:27 am)
Roll. It. Back.(for now anyway)
QFT:
Quote:I'm supposed to be supportive, but I have to say I am saddened, and I have to speak up. The community functions of GarageGames have been decimated. I am sure it is harder for me, one of the founders with the original vision for community and Indie support, but I think this will be a loss for Indie game developers.
-Jeff Tunnell, Co-Founder GarageGames
#111
The site really lost visual hierarchy. I am finding it difficult to find buttons for common tasks... dont know if they were removed or not.
LOTS of scrolling to get to what i want. Esp for the search! I have a HUGE monitor and still have to scroll down a couple folds just to get to results. Possibly collapse the 'advanced search' and fold out when needed.
What happened to all the resource downloads? Is this something removed because uploads by users are no longer available? If so, that would DRASTICALLY affect the resources. If they are still available, I cannot find them.
The personal images really gave the site and posters some personality. It is really too bad you got rid of them. Gravatars maybe?
I do web dev all day every day and understand your plight... not an easy task. Please keep at it and do some serious usability testing (most requested features poll might be helpful). Many of these issues are obvious, hopefully it is due to the 'beta' status.
Good luck!
01/14/2009 (10:41 am)
I echo what most are saying about usability, esp the unread forums, employee and associate blogs. Featured blogs are fine, but I really came back alot for news from GG employees.The site really lost visual hierarchy. I am finding it difficult to find buttons for common tasks... dont know if they were removed or not.
LOTS of scrolling to get to what i want. Esp for the search! I have a HUGE monitor and still have to scroll down a couple folds just to get to results. Possibly collapse the 'advanced search' and fold out when needed.
What happened to all the resource downloads? Is this something removed because uploads by users are no longer available? If so, that would DRASTICALLY affect the resources. If they are still available, I cannot find them.
The personal images really gave the site and posters some personality. It is really too bad you got rid of them. Gravatars maybe?
I do web dev all day every day and understand your plight... not an easy task. Please keep at it and do some serious usability testing (most requested features poll might be helpful). Many of these issues are obvious, hopefully it is due to the 'beta' status.
Good luck!
#112
01/14/2009 (11:01 am)
Any ETA on TDN being back up and running? 
#113
So I open my project files, and set to work, been working on AI scripts following 100's of forum threads i had already set aside as relevant information. Its taking 3x longer now to reconvert the web address, and that is for the threads i can still find.
Thank you so much for turning the GG web page into nothing more then an advertisement for GG products, and stripping all the useful developer information away, making it even more painful to find the already answered questions to my notebooks full of project little problems. As far as i see it there IS no more GG developers community. But you have made a perfect fine SALES page, complete with misleading product pages- As a team member of ONE who has learned every facet of Torque im insulted by the 'new' product descriptions what are obviously aimed for "pie in the sky" dreamers who think its easy to make a game. Where is the technical descriptions? Reads like a real bad infomercial now.
My last and as far as i see it SHOW STOPing complain is i can no longer click my user name/or others and find links to everything i/they had every posted, forums resource and blogs! I used that function to keep track of all my hand written notes on a wide variety of subjects.
One simple unannounced web sight change (a change of a system that was working well for over 5 years now) and now my project is at a stand still until i can re research every scrape of info i had already pre saved links for. Forget finding NEW information, I just dont have time in my day to read your new forum system. Thanks for making me hate you!
01/14/2009 (11:01 am)
I sit down with my morning coffee hit a link shortcut on my desktop what open all the web sights i read a few times every day. I finish with WORLD NEWS and move into the Garage Games category, only to stumble back and forth on the whats new page trying to see if I had read everything NEW... I have know idea...So I open my project files, and set to work, been working on AI scripts following 100's of forum threads i had already set aside as relevant information. Its taking 3x longer now to reconvert the web address, and that is for the threads i can still find.
Thank you so much for turning the GG web page into nothing more then an advertisement for GG products, and stripping all the useful developer information away, making it even more painful to find the already answered questions to my notebooks full of project little problems. As far as i see it there IS no more GG developers community. But you have made a perfect fine SALES page, complete with misleading product pages- As a team member of ONE who has learned every facet of Torque im insulted by the 'new' product descriptions what are obviously aimed for "pie in the sky" dreamers who think its easy to make a game. Where is the technical descriptions? Reads like a real bad infomercial now.
My last and as far as i see it SHOW STOPing complain is i can no longer click my user name/or others and find links to everything i/they had every posted, forums resource and blogs! I used that function to keep track of all my hand written notes on a wide variety of subjects.
One simple unannounced web sight change (a change of a system that was working well for over 5 years now) and now my project is at a stand still until i can re research every scrape of info i had already pre saved links for. Forget finding NEW information, I just dont have time in my day to read your new forum system. Thanks for making me hate you!
#114
01/14/2009 (11:08 am)
I don't mean to be a downer, but I kinda liked the old site better. There wouldn't be a chance you can switch to the old view can you?
#115
01/14/2009 (11:33 am)
I also put my hand up to vote for a roll back to the old site.
#116
Some people were commenting on the lack of response by GG, so I just wanted to make a quick post to say we are listening AND we hear you.
The reason you haven't seen a longer point by point response here, yet, is that we've been working all morning on prioritizing which features, bugs and functions to work on first. Like many of my co workers I was here late last night monitoring the launch and making sure we didn't have any "show stopper" errors. Even at 2pm last night we only had about 12 comments on Jabcob's blog regarding the new site. This morning, whole different story. As you've seen this thread has ballooned and it's giving us a lot of great feedback to follow up on.
I want to take a moment to thank Tom Spillman for reviving the initial feedback posts from our last site re skin. Anytime you change the look and work flow of a big site like GG, you're going to get a lot of criticism. This is **really good**, its a healthy part of the process and it lets us know our users are engaged. For the most part we fulfilled our design goal in terms of making the site cleaner and easier to navigate. Now we need to refine the changes and rebuild the vital community features.
I know many of you are missing the functionality of the old site and had a lot of time invested in streamlining your access to particular resources. Trust me this is a big deal for for us and in the coming weeks we will work hard to re-enable most of usability you've come to depend on us for.
This is NOT the Hindenburg. It's not Titanic. It's not even Windows Vista.
Underneath the new "slick" surface of site are some long overdue back end/ administrative features which we have been sorely missing. Although the standard resource navigation features need to be improved, the site as a whole is easier and more intuitive to navigate. We know we have a lot more work to do, but the foundation Jacob and the web team built here have moved the site a big step forward.
It hasn't even been 24hrs! So please stick with us and your constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
01/14/2009 (12:07 pm)
Hi Guys (and ladies for those of you reading : )Some people were commenting on the lack of response by GG, so I just wanted to make a quick post to say we are listening AND we hear you.
The reason you haven't seen a longer point by point response here, yet, is that we've been working all morning on prioritizing which features, bugs and functions to work on first. Like many of my co workers I was here late last night monitoring the launch and making sure we didn't have any "show stopper" errors. Even at 2pm last night we only had about 12 comments on Jabcob's blog regarding the new site. This morning, whole different story. As you've seen this thread has ballooned and it's giving us a lot of great feedback to follow up on.
I want to take a moment to thank Tom Spillman for reviving the initial feedback posts from our last site re skin. Anytime you change the look and work flow of a big site like GG, you're going to get a lot of criticism. This is **really good**, its a healthy part of the process and it lets us know our users are engaged. For the most part we fulfilled our design goal in terms of making the site cleaner and easier to navigate. Now we need to refine the changes and rebuild the vital community features.
I know many of you are missing the functionality of the old site and had a lot of time invested in streamlining your access to particular resources. Trust me this is a big deal for for us and in the coming weeks we will work hard to re-enable most of usability you've come to depend on us for.
This is NOT the Hindenburg. It's not Titanic. It's not even Windows Vista.
Underneath the new "slick" surface of site are some long overdue back end/ administrative features which we have been sorely missing. Although the standard resource navigation features need to be improved, the site as a whole is easier and more intuitive to navigate. We know we have a lot more work to do, but the foundation Jacob and the web team built here have moved the site a big step forward.
It hasn't even been 24hrs! So please stick with us and your constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
#117
What also disappoints me is the over all design. Its not that its not shiny and pretty. Its that it is too sanitized to achieve a corporate image. Alot of the appeal to Garage Games has always been the community and the interactions with the staff in a very personal approach.
The old version had more of that "sure I am a company, but I am a company that cares about you" look.
I am sure a ton of work went into research and setting up the site, but I have to be honest, its kind of bland, generic, and impersonal.
01/14/2009 (12:12 pm)
Well I guess its my turn. I will say I am a bit disappointed in the lack of options and much like others I really don't like the over-simplification of the forum. What also disappoints me is the over all design. Its not that its not shiny and pretty. Its that it is too sanitized to achieve a corporate image. Alot of the appeal to Garage Games has always been the community and the interactions with the staff in a very personal approach.
The old version had more of that "sure I am a company, but I am a company that cares about you" look.
I am sure a ton of work went into research and setting up the site, but I have to be honest, its kind of bland, generic, and impersonal.
#118
Full Screen FSAO/SSAO
Depth of Field
Physics
Torque includes efficiently networked physics functionality, and is built with an abstracted C++ Physics API for use with other major 3rd party physics libraries as well. Sample implementations include:
* PhysX
* Bullet
* ODE
Using these libraries, Torque supports:
* Rigid body
* Vehicles
* Ragdoll
* Destructible objects
* Dynamic fluid
* Particle system physics
* Destroyable joints
* Various vehicles
* Fluid buoyancy
This is extremely misleading. Ragdoll in TGEA? Come on. The physics implementations are far from complete, and guess what, they were implemented by the COMMUNITY, the very people it seems are being alienated, in light of a new, more elite audience.
Not to mention Depth of field and SSAO were just recently released by Ubiq Visuals (awesome work btw guys), so how can you mention them on your product page, when they are not included in stock TGEA? You should, at the very very least, link to the Ubiq site since TGEA did not create these products.
In regards to the new website design, I can only reiterate what everyone else has said here. The design is clean and professional, but the community has just taken a huge slap to the face. And if GG isn't listening it's repeat customers, perhaps they can at least take a warning from one of their co-founders.
I fear the worst for GG's new direction. I can only hope that indie developers will be able to find a home as warming and inviting as the old GG we all knew and loved.
01/14/2009 (12:13 pm)
I would also like to know how GG can get away with advertising TGEA 1.8 with: Full Screen FSAO/SSAO
Depth of Field
Physics
Torque includes efficiently networked physics functionality, and is built with an abstracted C++ Physics API for use with other major 3rd party physics libraries as well. Sample implementations include:
* PhysX
* Bullet
* ODE
Using these libraries, Torque supports:
* Rigid body
* Vehicles
* Ragdoll
* Destructible objects
* Dynamic fluid
* Particle system physics
* Destroyable joints
* Various vehicles
* Fluid buoyancy
This is extremely misleading. Ragdoll in TGEA? Come on. The physics implementations are far from complete, and guess what, they were implemented by the COMMUNITY, the very people it seems are being alienated, in light of a new, more elite audience.
Not to mention Depth of field and SSAO were just recently released by Ubiq Visuals (awesome work btw guys), so how can you mention them on your product page, when they are not included in stock TGEA? You should, at the very very least, link to the Ubiq site since TGEA did not create these products.
In regards to the new website design, I can only reiterate what everyone else has said here. The design is clean and professional, but the community has just taken a huge slap to the face. And if GG isn't listening it's repeat customers, perhaps they can at least take a warning from one of their co-founders.
I fear the worst for GG's new direction. I can only hope that indie developers will be able to find a home as warming and inviting as the old GG we all knew and loved.
#119
Thank you for your post, well written and for what it is worth, you got my vote of confidents back. Alot of work yet to do and I am looking forward to hearing as well more importantly, watching the improvements roll in.
01/14/2009 (12:14 pm)
Davey,Thank you for your post, well written and for what it is worth, you got my vote of confidents back. Alot of work yet to do and I am looking forward to hearing as well more importantly, watching the improvements roll in.
#120
BUT -
1. I spent six months writing Creating Game Art for 3D Engines which I was glad to see on the Education page until this new web design team saw fit to delete it and both of the All In One books from the list. What's up with that? I'd think you'd want every possible resource visible so prospects see what a wide range of solutions there are. The books currently advertised do not fill the gap my book filled - namely, using Max to develop, export, and script game art into Torque.
2. One of the most useful sections on the GG site used to be RESOURCES -they were divided up into categories, and you could find almost anything there if you were patient. Now you have to go through a seemingly random list, page after page, or plug in search terms, hit and miss. Not to mention that both of the resources I submitted are no longer listed. What other resources are missing?
3. What's up with hiding Torque-made Games under the Developer Store link? Who would think to go to the Developer Store when you want to try or buy a game? Let's not take this simplicity thing too far, guys. And I agree with earlier posters that GG should be helping the community market and sell games - this is one of the big selling points to (what used to be) the whole GG philosophy! Help the independents get a foothold! The Torque-made games that were deleted from the Games section should be replaced, and a new category should be created under the Products pull-down menu, called Games, so people can find it logically.
Bottom line, I was just getting all psyched to start working on a new game with the TGEA engine, popped in today to read a bit more in the resources pages, and Boom! - this new web design feels crippling.
I hope all of these comments are being carefully read and considered by someone who has decision-making power at GG. This is a very serious issue and I'd love to see a plan to improve the site.
Many of us have invested a lot of blood, sweat and tears into Torque and GG, and we really care about the future of the site and the company. Rather than taking the feedback you are getting for the new site in a negative way, please try and appreciate what an amazing, caring community GG has built, and quickly find a way to give us back (most, if not all of) the functionality we need without losing the new, clean look - even if it means hiring a new body or two.
Thanks for listening.
01/14/2009 (12:17 pm)
Yes the site has a cleaner look, on the positive side. BUT -
1. I spent six months writing Creating Game Art for 3D Engines which I was glad to see on the Education page until this new web design team saw fit to delete it and both of the All In One books from the list. What's up with that? I'd think you'd want every possible resource visible so prospects see what a wide range of solutions there are. The books currently advertised do not fill the gap my book filled - namely, using Max to develop, export, and script game art into Torque.
2. One of the most useful sections on the GG site used to be RESOURCES -they were divided up into categories, and you could find almost anything there if you were patient. Now you have to go through a seemingly random list, page after page, or plug in search terms, hit and miss. Not to mention that both of the resources I submitted are no longer listed. What other resources are missing?
3. What's up with hiding Torque-made Games under the Developer Store link? Who would think to go to the Developer Store when you want to try or buy a game? Let's not take this simplicity thing too far, guys. And I agree with earlier posters that GG should be helping the community market and sell games - this is one of the big selling points to (what used to be) the whole GG philosophy! Help the independents get a foothold! The Torque-made games that were deleted from the Games section should be replaced, and a new category should be created under the Products pull-down menu, called Games, so people can find it logically.
Bottom line, I was just getting all psyched to start working on a new game with the TGEA engine, popped in today to read a bit more in the resources pages, and Boom! - this new web design feels crippling.
I hope all of these comments are being carefully read and considered by someone who has decision-making power at GG. This is a very serious issue and I'd love to see a plan to improve the site.
Many of us have invested a lot of blood, sweat and tears into Torque and GG, and we really care about the future of the site and the company. Rather than taking the feedback you are getting for the new site in a negative way, please try and appreciate what an amazing, caring community GG has built, and quickly find a way to give us back (most, if not all of) the functionality we need without losing the new, clean look - even if it means hiring a new body or two.
Thanks for listening.
Torque 3D Owner Hesham Amiri
I think this comment was overlooekd.