Constructor Love (WIP)

#1 Almost done on the levels. Thought I'd add in a few more for good measure.

#2 Looks awesome!

#3 That is nice work, Julian. But before you get too complex with your model you should test the structure for proper portal setup. If you plan to use portals, that is, they require very specific geometry that may dictate you carving your models up into smaller sections just to get the portals to work right.

#4 @Tuomas - thanks. Always good to know that I'm doing some nice work. That's what I like about the GG community, you get good feedback and improvement tips. When I've worked for a company, you do good work but go invisible, without any acknowledgement for your efforts, so you can't improve yourself. I'm freelance now :)

@N R - thanks, and for the tip on portals. I've not used them before so I will investigate further. I might split the levels up instead of having one big model, so that they can always be increased or decreased in size to make multiple buildings. A bit of flexibility never goes amiss.

#5 Basically Julian I think N R's main point is the placement of the windows. If you use portals and have all the windows across from each other there will be no point in portals at all.

Think of a portal as gate in a huge stone wall, unless you are standing at an angle wear you can see through the gate you don't know that the world beyond the wall even exists. This is kinda the same thing the engine does when it notices portals.

When your character is inside the building and if it's portaled correctly, nothing outside the current room or building is rendered (except if you are at an angle to see through the portal in which case only things in your line of sight are rendered) thus saving you processor for things happening where you can see them instead of where you can't. But with all the windows and with them all being straight across from each other no matter where you were in the room your line of sight would contain many of the portals thus alot of the outside world would be needlessly rendered wasting engergy that the inside of the room could be using. Portaling is a way to help cut down on lag.

Hope I've helped you understand some. As always if I was off at all on anything or if anyone has a better way of explaining it and has the experience then pls feel free to do so.

#6 Thanks Scott, so basically if I do an enclosed area, such as a lift enclosure from the top of the building down, each floor showing a door entrance which would be basically a level opening, inside would be the portal which would not be visible from the windows, with maybe an animated door. I should be ok? What about if I provide transparency? Can portals be textured with alpha transparency?

#7 You won't see portals at all. They will be completely invisable. You won't need them in doorways with working doors.

#8 In my opinion, I'd have to say the floor plan of each individual floor would really be a deciding factor of how the interior of the building played. Perhaps use your lift idea and then seperate all the areas of each floor with hallways seperate office rooms ect.. Which would split up chances of seeing though several portals at once. Best way I think I can explain this is appartment shopping. Think more enclosed and less studio apart like. Hope that helps. I may draw a simple picture to help explain this if you wish.

#9 Mike, what I plan on doing is on each level have a lift that you go into, with doors that open and then close. You dont actually physically see yourself move, apart from maybe an animation inside the lift to show that you are moving floors, then you get teleported to the next level of the building based on your lift selection through maybe a trigger. The only problem is when you get teleported is that the player goes invisible and then visible again, perhaps a camera change of the next floor, point at the doors as if looking at yourself inside the lift, then pan back to the players camera. Is there an alternative to portals?

#10 Scott, by all means draw a picture so I get what you mean better. It will also be a good resource for others looking to do the same thing.

#11 Well it's simple as can be, but hope it helps alittle.


Note: Assuming you go the route of making all the windows portals, though you could have some windows that have too much dirt to see beyond or maybe blinds etc. which then you wouldn't need them to be portals there are options depending on your game's needed areas.

#12 With a little bit of searching I've found something that helps explain portals more:


http://www.devmaster.net/articles/graphics_alg/

Read section 3.4 it should help you understand better.

Sid.

#13 Thanks for that Scott. In TGEA, on my server rack blog I used a transparent texture to simulate the glass effect, and placing whatever markings I wanted on top, however when I placed another texture with a sticker on top using a plate effect within the art package I was using it went straight through the other textures as if I blown a hole through it. Couldn't figure it out, so I move it above the rack where no other texture block was present and it was fine. What would the overhead be on this compared to using portals if I just use a DTS model for the glass?


I'm also looking at breakable glass for the buildings once shot at. So I'm guessing that I'd need a dts for this anyway, along with a debris version.

#14 I quickly went ahead and created an alpha-transparent texture, added a bit of dirt on it for good measure, created a window in DTS, added the texture, and these were the results in TGEA; Sorry - no lighting has been added. Inside the building looking out and outside looking in.

#15 Well if I'm not mistaken if you used .dts for all the outside windows skipping on using portals, everything both inside the building and outside the building would be rendered at all times as long as was within LOD distance. You can imagine the difference in processor used.

I see no problem with having some inside windows/walls made out of .dts shapes so they break when you shoot them basically making 2 smaller rooms connected via the wall breaking.

Also I think you have the wrong idea of a portal in some aspects. Basically to the naked eye you don't have to see a portal when in game, actually you won't see them and that's the point. They are invisible dividers of zones.

As mentioned on that site article it referenced a portal could even be in a turn in a hallway. When you walk down the hallway in game and come around the corner you never see the invisible portal, yet if you are further up the hallway everything beyond the portal won't be rendered because it's not needed till you actually go to turn the corner. Without a portal in the hallway everything beyond the turn will be rendered far before you get there. Make more sense? You can walk right through portals and heck even shoot through them if it's referenced in code that way.

So I guess you could use both .dts and portals in the same window hole if you really wanted to have someone shoot across buildings, perhaps break the window and shoot someone. But just a window in .dts format without zoning off the building using portals would be a massive drain if every level of the building was connected with out zoning any of it off.

Again anyone that has the expertize pls feel free to correct me if I'm off on anything.

And sorry for the book =/. I tend to ramble sorry.

#16 http://web.mac.com/manged/iWeb/Constructor/Portals.html

Promise I won't keep going, but that url has a tut by Josiah Reeves (from our very own GG community) that can help you understand very basically how to add a portal.

It's nothing more really than making say a square in your doorway or window or hallway that is alittle larger than the opening, thus making sure it covers the whole opening yet doesn't bleed outside your doorway or window frame and then clicking the button in constructor that will label it as a portal. And portals don't have to be squares, just convex shapes as far as I know.

#17 Another reason for using portals is that the best interior lighting is only possible via portals. When you have portals your interior lighting is not affected by exterior lighting, which is primarily the sun. With portals you can have a bright-lit exterior and also have dark interior lighting with deep shadows. But without portals your interior spaces are exposed to the light value of the sun and its washout effect, which means you would never be able to achieve true darkness or rich colored lighting inside. If your planning to sell this as a model pack you really should look into using portals. This way your customers won't have a nasty surprise when they try to setup their lighting only to discover they can't get the level of control they want.

Also, in my comment earlier I should have clarified that the more complex your geometry is the greater the chance of errors creeping into the portal configuration. One thing I learned developing the monastery for Vespers is you can't build a structure with the level of complexity of say the church and then expect to install working portals. What I think Julian is going to find, if he uses portals, is that he'll have to start over with a basic shell of his building, with a handfull of doors and windows, gets those working, and then add in one section of geometry at a time. If you build from the ground up, starting first with the portals, you stand a greater chance of success rather than having to backtrack and debugg to find an error that's collasped all your portals.

#18 @Scott / NR - Great stuff you've both written here, the more the better I say! I'm going to give portals a go next week, and go through all of this useful information to see what I can come up with. It will only help me with my next building which is going to be a skyscraper / hotel or casino, but for the majority of this I'll probably use a texture for the windows except in a few select parts. It's good to know that portals can be round, as the next building will be a rounded shape. Buildings, interiors and exteriors will definately be my strong point then. Cheers. Julian