Why Use TGEA 1.8?
by Britton LaRoche · 12/15/2008 (9:45 pm) · 10 comments
I spent the last week choosing what version of TGE / TGEA to use. I've spent considerable time with TGE 1.3 and TGE 1.5, and I hate to face yet another learning curve. I looked seriously at TGE 1.7.1 because it has the best performance and the most current support, its also the most stable. See this article for a performance comparison of all versions of Torque
TGEA 1.8 is currently is in beta, there are plenty of new bugs and it does not have the best performance. There are 3 reasons I chose beta 1.8.
1. Its the latest version (learning curve well spent.. going to catch up)
2. ShaderGen, Constant buffers and Stateblocks
3. It will port to other platforms with open GL in the near future.
Okay, so you probably understand points 1 and 3. But what the heck is constant buffers and stateblocks? Matt responded to my last post with mention of these features, and I had to do some reading to find out what they were. I read up and I was sold. That is where I found out about ShaderGen Wow, what a concept.
From Matts Blog:
If you are choosing what version of Torque to use like I was, then I highly suggest you read the following articles. They will be a great help to you. It may save you months of development time. It might keep you from working with the wrong version of torque. You may decide the features are not what you need. Then again, you might find there is something really special coming in TGEA 1.8.
Overview Articles
Matts TGEA 1.8 Blog
TGEA 1.8 Porting gotchas
TGEA Bug List
Performance comparison of all versions of Torque
Detailed Information (added from post below)
GFX Stateblocks
GFX Constant Buffer
TGEA 1.8 is currently is in beta, there are plenty of new bugs and it does not have the best performance. There are 3 reasons I chose beta 1.8.
1. Its the latest version (learning curve well spent.. going to catch up)
2. ShaderGen, Constant buffers and Stateblocks
3. It will port to other platforms with open GL in the near future.
Okay, so you probably understand points 1 and 3. But what the heck is constant buffers and stateblocks? Matt responded to my last post with mention of these features, and I had to do some reading to find out what they were. I read up and I was sold. That is where I found out about ShaderGen Wow, what a concept.
From Matts Blog:
Quote:
StateBlocks: One of the fundamental changes that GFX2 introduces is the concept of StateBlocks. .... The basic idea is that an active rendering state is contained in one object and you are able set that rendering state with a single call. The state that you set fully defines the render state. ... This should greatly reduce bugs that are introduced because state hasn't been cleaned up by a previous rendering object/pass (this is the cause of a lot of the graphical glitches you see in Torque and other engines).
Constant Buffers: Another big change that GFX2 brings with it is Constant Buffers. Instead of just "knowing" which register maps to which shader variable, in GFX2 you query the shader for a list of variables and then bind to them by name.
ShaderGen: One of the great things about GFX2 is that it has a proper GLSL ShaderGen implementation. This means that if you use Materials on your object (currently defined in script) then they will automatically work on both Windows and Mac. This can save your team and project a ton of time and make it so that your port to OSX is fairly trivial.
If you are choosing what version of Torque to use like I was, then I highly suggest you read the following articles. They will be a great help to you. It may save you months of development time. It might keep you from working with the wrong version of torque. You may decide the features are not what you need. Then again, you might find there is something really special coming in TGEA 1.8.
Overview Articles
Matts TGEA 1.8 Blog
TGEA 1.8 Porting gotchas
TGEA Bug List
Performance comparison of all versions of Torque
Detailed Information (added from post below)
GFX Stateblocks
GFX Constant Buffer
#2
12/15/2008 (10:59 pm)
If your moving from TGE, its a no brainer in my opinion to move to TGEA at this point. If your not planning on Mac support though, then it may not be a no brainer to choose 1.8 over 1.7 at this point. The performance differential between the two is pretty large right now. Unless that can get fixed up, I personally will stick with 1.7 for PC, and if I did a Mac port I'd use 1.8. 
#3
12/16/2008 (4:36 am)
1.8 BETA has a bug in it that prevents me from moving to it right now. Vehicles fall through the map! It's still in BETA, but that is one bug that has to be fixed before I can even consider moving.
#4
The other thing to consider is I'm looking at several months to finish a game in TGE 1.5 and probably a year or more if I go to TGEA. Part of me says, yeah shaders are cool and all, but you need to get a game finished. I'm betting money that the bugs in TGEA 1.8 will be fixed long before my game is finished.
@Randy are you using shaders?
12/16/2008 (8:40 am)
@J.C. Its also about keeping my options open. I don't even have mac to install stuff on. But, the lions share of the Market for the independent gamer is still on the Mac. The other thing to consider is I'm looking at several months to finish a game in TGE 1.5 and probably a year or more if I go to TGEA. Part of me says, yeah shaders are cool and all, but you need to get a game finished. I'm betting money that the bugs in TGEA 1.8 will be fixed long before my game is finished.
@Randy are you using shaders?
#5
12/16/2008 (9:43 am)
I called up the stronghold demo, went to the world editor and tried to place the buggy in the current mission. It fell straight through the terrain. I never went further than that, went back to 1.7.1. I did try to place the Stryker content as well, and same issue. 
#6
maybe it was better to focus on the latest version of TGEA 1.7.1 or not ???
Bye
12/16/2008 (10:30 am)
I think it is premature to pass tgea 1.8 and now I work hard with TGEA 1.7.0 and TGEA 1.7.1 for convert and study old resources.maybe it was better to focus on the latest version of TGEA 1.7.1 or not ???
Bye
#7
12/16/2008 (7:31 pm)
Now... what's the game idea, Britton?
#8
I decided to go back and try again to place a vehicle in 1.8. After having the first couple fall through the map, I turned off BB and CNTRL, the buggy dropped in and did not go through, except once or twice. I also went back and could duplicate the issue on 1.7...
So placing the car so all 4 wheels contact the terrain at the same time seams to solve the problem. So maybe I can move to 1.8:)
12/16/2008 (7:56 pm)
@BrittonI decided to go back and try again to place a vehicle in 1.8. After having the first couple fall through the map, I turned off BB and CNTRL, the buggy dropped in and did not go through, except once or twice. I also went back and could duplicate the issue on 1.7...
So placing the car so all 4 wheels contact the terrain at the same time seams to solve the problem. So maybe I can move to 1.8:)
#9
Great work on the earlier comparisons.
12/17/2008 (6:10 am)
Maybe now that 1.8 final is out we can see a final set of comparisons with the new GFX2 layer vs. the older 1.7.1 layer?Great work on the earlier comparisons.
#10
AtlasDemo:
1.7.1: 560-600
1.8: 180-200
T3D:
1.7.1: 45
1.8: 21
The mac support is great, nice to see mac support in TGEA now. But if your doing a PC version and are graphically intense, then you might seriously want to considering sticking with 1.7.1 for now as the frame rates are more than twice as fast at the moment.
12/17/2008 (10:37 am)
Just some quick tests from me playing with 1.8 final and comparing to my same frame rates from 1.7.1 without doing any tests, just giving the range.AtlasDemo:
1.7.1: 560-600
1.8: 180-200
T3D:
1.7.1: 45
1.8: 21
The mac support is great, nice to see mac support in TGEA now. But if your doing a PC version and are graphically intense, then you might seriously want to considering sticking with 1.7.1 for now as the frame rates are more than twice as fast at the moment.
Employee Michael Perry
GarageGames
GFX Stateblocks
GFX Constant Buffer