Poser to Torque Workflow Resource
by BrokeAss Games · 11/07/2008 (7:52 am) · 13 comments
This is not the resource... YET!
It is an announcement and a confession.
My team has talked about this for a long time and it's time to start walking the walk.
This wasn't an easy thing to post about, but I'm an indie at heart so time for the dirty laundry!
If you don't know about Poser, go to here and have a look...
My team and I will be posting a resource soon that explains the work-flow of exporting Poser characters to DTS for use in your Torque TGE and TGEA projects. The work-flow has been a guarded secret here at BAG for a long time now. Recent developments and joint efforts from Smith Micro, PhilC and BrokeAss Games now allow this to be done fairly easy. This is part of how we created our MACK and FACK characters.
There are actually many ways this can be done, but not all of them preserve the weighting, rigging, animation and other properties of the character. Some of the methods are VERY costly and out of reach to the indie developer (for example 3DS Max, Motion Builder, TrueSpace and my favorite, ZBrush!) and can also be a real pain.
We will be focusing on using very inexpensive software that is commonly used for game mods and indie games (such as MilkShape, FragMotion, and others).
Going forward, we are looking at the Collada export from Poser Pro, as well as a custom Poser-to-MilkShape Exporter plugin we're working on with PhilC.
Originally we used 5 separate applications, exporting, importing, saving, converting, re-weighting, etc. It was a pain, but it worked, we were able to get our characters, animations, textures and rigging out of Poser and into DTS format. Best of all, it was a solution that cost less than $500!
Poser handles the BVH file format for animations which is an industry standard motion capture standard for animations.
Nearly all of the rotoscope apps, body-suits and camera -based systems we have researched support this format and natively support Poser as well. Two of the most important ones to me are:
OptiTrack and PhilC's Rotoscoper.
Thousands of BVH animations are available on the web for sale and for free.
www.truebones.com from Joe McPeak (aka Mr. Bones) has over 2000 BVH motion capture animations alone. There is a free tool called BVH Hacker that can edit the animations and also help fit them onto non-standard skeletons. For $25 you can have the same functionality as BVH Hacker via a plugin directly inside Poser with PhilC's BVH Helper. PhilC has developed many models, plugins, tools and tutorials to make Poser very powerful and easy to use and all of them are indie priced and indie EULA friendly. He also has made a very powerful python scripting tool for Poser (Ritter? Anyone? Anyone?).
These can be found on Content Paradise which is the main commercial site for Poser content.
Chris Calef (a new member of our team) has released a resource that allows BVH animations to be loaded into Torque in realtime via script commands. His resource can also fit these animations onto custom and non-standard skeletons. Mixing Chris' resource and some voodoo from the Torque DTS SDK you can export these animations into DSQ files from within Torque.
We're currently considering merging this resource into our MACK pack and adding new GUIs to our character editor to make it a nearly turnkey solution for adding new animations.
One of the most heated arguments about Poser has been EULA and legality of making games with it. Smith Micro has been very interested in our work with Poser and game development and has been VERY supportive to us. Poser is already great to make characters and animations for games with, and future versions of poser may actually be geared towards them.
The only real remaining EULA issue with Poser... is the content. In Poser Pro there is SOME artwork that is royalty free and indie friendly (medium and low poly versions of the male and female included in Poser Pro are open source). Personally, I didn't really like those characters, but that is just my opinion. But it shows and they have confirmed to us that they are starting to "think indie" and understand that royalty free artwork would bring Poser to new heights.
So before you load a default poser character or run to Content Paradise and buy the latest Vickie or Jessica characters to put in your game, be VERY careful to read the EULA of the specific art you are using. If the product doesn't clearly show the EULA, contact the vendor! Its better to be safe than sorry.
PhilC's characters and models are very indie friendly in terms of EULA. The M.A.C.K. character includes source art that is Poser-ready and is recommended to get started with if you own the pack.
When we post the resource we will describe how to import your own or royalty free character meshes into Poser and avoid ripping off your fellow artists without their permission. So basically the age old battles and myths about using Poser for games is over and has been debunked. We are hoping this resource and our character pack will fuel a new genre of modular/dynamic character design.
The point of our efforts wasn't to get rich (and trust me, we haven't), but to change and inspire the way characters and character packs are made. After the resource is up we will be hosting a portal dedicated to our art and how we do it. Maybe it will evolve into something bigger, and not just "a character here, a character there" that is seen in most game dev communities.
Honestly no one team has the time to make enough characters to keep everyone happy, heck maybe not even 5 teams, so we hope by empowering our community it will create a flood of cheap/free character packs/addons/methods.
I would love to talk to any GG staff about what we are doing so that I don't wind up with basket of oranges at the apple festival.
Two of our current goals are to purchase a lowcost 3D scanner (we almost have enough from pack sales, keep them coming!) and a low cost motion capture system. If we achieve both of the goals, we'll be able to bring "the big guns" as fast and as cheap as we can and maybe I can even finish a title as an indie. ;)
I hope this sheds some light on the subject for anybody interested and gets the juices flowing for what's to come in the near future. There is alot I can't cover in this post but I am hoping for input and ideas from the community before we start our final release of this project.
Shout outs:
Jondo
Moe
Rex
Chris Calef
PhilC
Mr. Bones
Smith Micro, Inc.
Konrad Kiss
Chris Robertson
David Mathews
Brad Bolthouse
Erik Madison
Dave Young
Ashtara
GarageGames
The dozens of devs that tested and reviewed our work.
Thanks for your time and support, we couldn't have done it without all of you.
It is an announcement and a confession.
My team has talked about this for a long time and it's time to start walking the walk.
This wasn't an easy thing to post about, but I'm an indie at heart so time for the dirty laundry!
If you don't know about Poser, go to here and have a look...
My team and I will be posting a resource soon that explains the work-flow of exporting Poser characters to DTS for use in your Torque TGE and TGEA projects. The work-flow has been a guarded secret here at BAG for a long time now. Recent developments and joint efforts from Smith Micro, PhilC and BrokeAss Games now allow this to be done fairly easy. This is part of how we created our MACK and FACK characters.
There are actually many ways this can be done, but not all of them preserve the weighting, rigging, animation and other properties of the character. Some of the methods are VERY costly and out of reach to the indie developer (for example 3DS Max, Motion Builder, TrueSpace and my favorite, ZBrush!) and can also be a real pain.
We will be focusing on using very inexpensive software that is commonly used for game mods and indie games (such as MilkShape, FragMotion, and others).
Going forward, we are looking at the Collada export from Poser Pro, as well as a custom Poser-to-MilkShape Exporter plugin we're working on with PhilC.
Originally we used 5 separate applications, exporting, importing, saving, converting, re-weighting, etc. It was a pain, but it worked, we were able to get our characters, animations, textures and rigging out of Poser and into DTS format. Best of all, it was a solution that cost less than $500!
Poser handles the BVH file format for animations which is an industry standard motion capture standard for animations.
Nearly all of the rotoscope apps, body-suits and camera -based systems we have researched support this format and natively support Poser as well. Two of the most important ones to me are:
OptiTrack and PhilC's Rotoscoper.
Thousands of BVH animations are available on the web for sale and for free.
www.truebones.com from Joe McPeak (aka Mr. Bones) has over 2000 BVH motion capture animations alone. There is a free tool called BVH Hacker that can edit the animations and also help fit them onto non-standard skeletons. For $25 you can have the same functionality as BVH Hacker via a plugin directly inside Poser with PhilC's BVH Helper. PhilC has developed many models, plugins, tools and tutorials to make Poser very powerful and easy to use and all of them are indie priced and indie EULA friendly. He also has made a very powerful python scripting tool for Poser (Ritter? Anyone? Anyone?).
These can be found on Content Paradise which is the main commercial site for Poser content.
Chris Calef (a new member of our team) has released a resource that allows BVH animations to be loaded into Torque in realtime via script commands. His resource can also fit these animations onto custom and non-standard skeletons. Mixing Chris' resource and some voodoo from the Torque DTS SDK you can export these animations into DSQ files from within Torque.
We're currently considering merging this resource into our MACK pack and adding new GUIs to our character editor to make it a nearly turnkey solution for adding new animations.
One of the most heated arguments about Poser has been EULA and legality of making games with it. Smith Micro has been very interested in our work with Poser and game development and has been VERY supportive to us. Poser is already great to make characters and animations for games with, and future versions of poser may actually be geared towards them.
The only real remaining EULA issue with Poser... is the content. In Poser Pro there is SOME artwork that is royalty free and indie friendly (medium and low poly versions of the male and female included in Poser Pro are open source). Personally, I didn't really like those characters, but that is just my opinion. But it shows and they have confirmed to us that they are starting to "think indie" and understand that royalty free artwork would bring Poser to new heights.
So before you load a default poser character or run to Content Paradise and buy the latest Vickie or Jessica characters to put in your game, be VERY careful to read the EULA of the specific art you are using. If the product doesn't clearly show the EULA, contact the vendor! Its better to be safe than sorry.
PhilC's characters and models are very indie friendly in terms of EULA. The M.A.C.K. character includes source art that is Poser-ready and is recommended to get started with if you own the pack.
When we post the resource we will describe how to import your own or royalty free character meshes into Poser and avoid ripping off your fellow artists without their permission. So basically the age old battles and myths about using Poser for games is over and has been debunked. We are hoping this resource and our character pack will fuel a new genre of modular/dynamic character design.
The point of our efforts wasn't to get rich (and trust me, we haven't), but to change and inspire the way characters and character packs are made. After the resource is up we will be hosting a portal dedicated to our art and how we do it. Maybe it will evolve into something bigger, and not just "a character here, a character there" that is seen in most game dev communities.
Honestly no one team has the time to make enough characters to keep everyone happy, heck maybe not even 5 teams, so we hope by empowering our community it will create a flood of cheap/free character packs/addons/methods.
I would love to talk to any GG staff about what we are doing so that I don't wind up with basket of oranges at the apple festival.
Two of our current goals are to purchase a lowcost 3D scanner (we almost have enough from pack sales, keep them coming!) and a low cost motion capture system. If we achieve both of the goals, we'll be able to bring "the big guns" as fast and as cheap as we can and maybe I can even finish a title as an indie. ;)
I hope this sheds some light on the subject for anybody interested and gets the juices flowing for what's to come in the near future. There is alot I can't cover in this post but I am hoping for input and ideas from the community before we start our final release of this project.
Shout outs:
Jondo
Moe
Rex
Chris Calef
PhilC
Mr. Bones
Smith Micro, Inc.
Konrad Kiss
Chris Robertson
David Mathews
Brad Bolthouse
Erik Madison
Dave Young
Ashtara
GarageGames
The dozens of devs that tested and reviewed our work.
Thanks for your time and support, we couldn't have done it without all of you.
About the author
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrokeAssGames
#2
11/07/2008 (8:05 am)
Woot! This will really make a lot of things possible and I am tremendously excited. For awhile I was addicted to content over at CP but because I couldn't use it for games (besides cutscenes and backdrops) it was an excercise in frustration really... the tools *are* a lot of fun to work with, especially DAZ Studio.
#3
I really like Poser and think it is a very overlooked tool. We used it for some of Minions of Mirth's 2D content... and its Python interface is nice to work with...
The ability to use Poser for 3D would be really, really, really great for indies. It would be excellent for Smith Micro and content providers such as Daz3D to get on board. Keep up the great work!
11/07/2008 (8:05 am)
Awesome stuff :)I really like Poser and think it is a very overlooked tool. We used it for some of Minions of Mirth's 2D content... and its Python interface is nice to work with...
The ability to use Poser for 3D would be really, really, really great for indies. It would be excellent for Smith Micro and content providers such as Daz3D to get on board. Keep up the great work!
#4
11/07/2008 (8:12 am)
Go BAG! This is something that will rock TGE(+A) really hard! Thanks for soon bringing a huge number of amazing possibilities and jaw-dropping resources into view for Torque. Once it's going to be a resource, I know we'll wonder how we could live without it before.
#5
PS if you want to learn about poser you might have better luck going here:
http://my.smithmicro.com/mac/poser/index.html
11/07/2008 (8:51 am)
"basket of oranges at the apple festival" ... ROFL. Great work y'all!PS if you want to learn about poser you might have better luck going here:
http://my.smithmicro.com/mac/poser/index.html
#6
The skeleton in the MACK is a BVH skeleton with nodes (hat, mount11, back, etc.) added on top, not inline, and the edition of hands with fingers. This way the BVH animations are not interpolated in any way and stay true to the way they were recorded.
3DS Max supports BVH. Export a single frame T-pose BVH animation from Poser, FragMotion or MilkShape and import it into Max. I have imported BVH animations into Max before and it works. I also had the privilege of hacking at it with Motion Builder a little. That was a long time ago and I'm not a Max user, but it is possible to do.
Using Chris Calef's resource you can also load BVH animations onto a Biped skeleton like Kork.
But I am very religious about the BVH skeleton and keeping to the standard, so using Chris' resource in that way is a blasphemy IMO. Using it for BVH is my holy grail. It's a matter of pref I guess.
Hope that helps. :)
11/07/2008 (9:17 am)
@SurgeThe skeleton in the MACK is a BVH skeleton with nodes (hat, mount11, back, etc.) added on top, not inline, and the edition of hands with fingers. This way the BVH animations are not interpolated in any way and stay true to the way they were recorded.
3DS Max supports BVH. Export a single frame T-pose BVH animation from Poser, FragMotion or MilkShape and import it into Max. I have imported BVH animations into Max before and it works. I also had the privilege of hacking at it with Motion Builder a little. That was a long time ago and I'm not a Max user, but it is possible to do.
Using Chris Calef's resource you can also load BVH animations onto a Biped skeleton like Kork.
But I am very religious about the BVH skeleton and keeping to the standard, so using Chris' resource in that way is a blasphemy IMO. Using it for BVH is my holy grail. It's a matter of pref I guess.
Hope that helps. :)
#7
11/07/2008 (9:20 am)
*Reserved for future use
#8
I have embraced the 'lowEnd' art solutions for some time now....I've tinkered with quite a few programs getting content pushed into the engine, working/humming along. It's encouraging to see GG 'getting their hands' dirty with looking for new programs that will work with Torque in a meaningful way.
Along these new 'discoveries' I'm seeing pop up everywhere, I'm working with a yet 'undiscovered' coder/author on a DSQ exporter for the outstanding animation solution, "fragMOTION". Dale Harper[Pelgar], has been working some LUA/assembly language magic on the fragMOTION schemas....can't wait to test another build.
Cheers!
11/07/2008 (10:35 am)
These are indeed, great times for the 3D artist/programmer working with Torque. It is really encouraging to see a lot of 'new' character solutions for the engine. Houdini, with Digital Tutors, seems to be working on some video presentations as well ahead; have to see how that develops.I have embraced the 'lowEnd' art solutions for some time now....I've tinkered with quite a few programs getting content pushed into the engine, working/humming along. It's encouraging to see GG 'getting their hands' dirty with looking for new programs that will work with Torque in a meaningful way.
Along these new 'discoveries' I'm seeing pop up everywhere, I'm working with a yet 'undiscovered' coder/author on a DSQ exporter for the outstanding animation solution, "fragMOTION". Dale Harper[Pelgar], has been working some LUA/assembly language magic on the fragMOTION schemas....can't wait to test another build.
Cheers!
#9
I have always thought Poser should have a DTS export which reduced the polygons rigged and all... is that too much to ask? :)
Just a question, does this mean mack able to support new BHV animations directly in Torque? If so, the I can buy the TrueBones animation pack, implement the said resource and Ill have everything I need.
Luck!
Guimo
11/07/2008 (1:01 pm)
Awesome... this is something I have always needed. Please make it happen. I have always thought Poser should have a DTS export which reduced the polygons rigged and all... is that too much to ask? :)
Just a question, does this mean mack able to support new BHV animations directly in Torque? If so, the I can buy the TrueBones animation pack, implement the said resource and Ill have everything I need.
Luck!
Guimo
#10
I lean more to Quidam Studio for this approach, but Quidam is a $600 (?) Dollar price tag. And I think they charge a fee for each character thats used for profit.. found somewhere in their license terms. I have gone to seek that license term again but the information eludes me.
Though Quidam Studio does look like a great product, and it might also work into your pipe line, I recommend seeking out that "per character" fee information before you buy it.
They do run specials every now and then, free exporter of your choice when you buy.
This sort of fits the same pipeline your using so I thought I'd mention it.
And I still can't say enough about Houdini. Man I love this software.
11/07/2008 (1:55 pm)
I have been looking at this avenue also, Daz Studio with Victoria or Mike, and I have also looked at Quidam Studio.I lean more to Quidam Studio for this approach, but Quidam is a $600 (?) Dollar price tag. And I think they charge a fee for each character thats used for profit.. found somewhere in their license terms. I have gone to seek that license term again but the information eludes me.
Though Quidam Studio does look like a great product, and it might also work into your pipe line, I recommend seeking out that "per character" fee information before you buy it.
They do run specials every now and then, free exporter of your choice when you buy.
This sort of fits the same pipeline your using so I thought I'd mention it.
And I still can't say enough about Houdini. Man I love this software.
#11
11/08/2008 (6:05 am)
Makehuman seems to making some strides toward improving the be-all make-all kinds of characters software, plus you can import any char you make into Poser. Obj and the Collada export options. But the like someone mention earlier the brutal 3+mill polygons and slowly reducing all that down to manageable poly count is a exercise in patience. I keep a older version of MH around because of the numerous char model options that havent made it into the new one yet MH>Poser>"Torque" sounds like a nice path for me. Looking forward to this future product or resource.
#12
God bless you all,
-Sparkling
11/10/2008 (2:28 pm)
Johnny, I was thinking the same thing! MH > Poser > Torque sounds like a good pipeline for our project also! MH doesn't do clothing or hair, Poser can accomodate that for us. Looking forward to it!God bless you all,
-Sparkling
#13
Normal Quidam Studio is about $600 as noted above, plus $49 per model used on an indie license (more for non-indie companies). Quidam Prime's preliminary costs appear to be around $1350 for an indie license, $6500 for non-indie. So if someone planned to use more than 16 Quidam generated models in a game, the Prime version on an indie project would be the way to go if you wished to use Quidam.
02/28/2009 (3:42 pm)
In response to Scott Warren's comment on Quidam Studio and the additional per character licensing fees, N-sided just announced that their next version of Quidam 3 will include an offering called Quidam Prime that will include a license to use as many generated 3D models as you want in a game. It's not going to be cheap, but it looks like they will have indie pricing as well.Normal Quidam Studio is about $600 as noted above, plus $49 per model used on an indie license (more for non-indie companies). Quidam Prime's preliminary costs appear to be around $1350 for an indie license, $6500 for non-indie. So if someone planned to use more than 16 Quidam generated models in a game, the Prime version on an indie project would be the way to go if you wished to use Quidam.

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