Kork 2.0, halted work
by Apparatus · 11/04/2008 (1:14 am) · 27 comments
I was playing around with the idea of a next gen looking orc and decided to get the old one and give it a try adding a million polys on top of it. Everything worked fine after I cleaned up the initial design and kept only the shoulder skull plates and the fur around the waist, removed the iron boots for something made of fur as well, you know, rough looking orc guy. However.. it has to wait until the world financial crisis is over and I can afford an upgrade so I can actually handle this pipeline. It takes forever to switch from one level to another in zbrush and 9 out of 10 times it hangs the modeling package when importing a bit under 1 million polys to create the texture maps from the high res version. So much for the gigapolygon technology for me, fully detailed characters can go up to 3-4 million (or more) polys, you know, that kind of level of detail... I am stuck and also lost some time on this one. I so much hate technology slowdowns.
If anybody wants to give it a try, I'll be glad to give them the file, in obj or ztool format, whatever. I am too pissed to pick it up again and hang the machine.
If anybody wants to give it a try, I'll be glad to give them the file, in obj or ztool format, whatever. I am too pissed to pick it up again and hang the machine.
About the author
Tarakibu Studio
#2
Garagegames should finish this model and make a 5 second animated intro for the garagegames logo using Kork to put before the game demos. Somebody should write a storyboard.
11/04/2008 (4:04 am)
Nice work, but honestly I would feel more than satisfied with a detailed model with at most 100k polys... Garagegames should finish this model and make a 5 second animated intro for the garagegames logo using Kork to put before the game demos. Somebody should write a storyboard.
#3
11/04/2008 (4:17 am)
The model is rather big (character) and if you lurk around zbrush central you would see that these models usually go over 10 million polys. That is, if you really want detail there. Once you're done, a maximum 7-8000 polys version (w is really the rough estimate for most biped character models nowadays) is totally doable and it will look perfect with normals applied. 
#4
I would like to help get him finished up...
I can rig him, finish detailing him and maybe get him in engine!
shoot me an email..
Sean
11/04/2008 (6:31 am)
Apparatus,I would like to help get him finished up...
I can rig him, finish detailing him and maybe get him in engine!
shoot me an email..
Sean
#5
11/04/2008 (7:05 am)
I second the vote for an animated GG logo sequence using the Kork Ork. Good times. 
#6
I think that would make a killer GG logo sequence, more so than one of those cheesy cartoon character looking things they're using nowadays. Korc's been around for so long I think a lot of people associate him as a sort of Torque mascot.
11/04/2008 (7:29 am)
Now that looks like an orc made for ripping puny elves and humans in half! I'd love to have something like that reduced in complexity and able to use in game. Or at least a Korc re-skin with normals and such - none of that space orc goofiness.I think that would make a killer GG logo sequence, more so than one of those cheesy cartoon character looking things they're using nowadays. Korc's been around for so long I think a lot of people associate him as a sort of Torque mascot.
#7
11/04/2008 (8:16 am)
I agree - I can assist with the animation/render - if this is something that GG wants to add as an intro. 
#8
Also, not sure how useful this is since I haven't used Zbrush very extensively, but I remember being able to mask off portions of the mesh and hide them. This may be more practical than breaking it down into several pieces. So when you are a few subdivision levels in, you can hide all but the current spot you are working on, allowing you to increase performance dramatically.
I'm not sure if that will help with the switching between subdivision level speed or file load crashes, but it might make life a bit more manageable when actually sculpting.
11/04/2008 (9:40 am)
Apparatus, if the polycount is killing the system, have you thought about breaking it down into pieces and doing those one at a time? IE, breaking out the chest and upper arm into a single model, breaking out the forearm into a single model, doing the shoulder pad, helmet, etc etc. Also, not sure how useful this is since I haven't used Zbrush very extensively, but I remember being able to mask off portions of the mesh and hide them. This may be more practical than breaking it down into several pieces. So when you are a few subdivision levels in, you can hide all but the current spot you are working on, allowing you to increase performance dramatically.
I'm not sure if that will help with the switching between subdivision level speed or file load crashes, but it might make life a bit more manageable when actually sculpting.
#9
even if it turned out to be prohibitive, it's great to see what that kind of polycount really means.
that's an awesome shader, too.
11/04/2008 (9:51 am)
this is a pretty cool project,even if it turned out to be prohibitive, it's great to see what that kind of polycount really means.
that's an awesome shader, too.
#10
@Tima ~ aye, there's the 'subtools' option but I don't want to split this guy; however, even if subtools are used, generating a normal map in either zbrush or xsi it's impossible, I tried with the current polycount on a 256x256 resolution and it couldn't finish the render. So, hm, I kinda wish I had one of those bad arse nvidia machines (or a mac pro hehe);
An animated next-gen looking Kork might look quite cool. Maybe it's time to complete crossbow 2.0 as well :)
Again, people go for high polycounts because 1) it's possible, 2) great level of detail 3) why not? either for renders or for in game use (normal maps) this pipeline is the best thing since the sliced bread. After Torque technologies, of course :)
11/04/2008 (10:30 am)
@Sean ~ I can always use an animator; I think I will manage to finish this ~ this morning I was really upset after several machine hangs and half a pack of smokes : )@Tima ~ aye, there's the 'subtools' option but I don't want to split this guy; however, even if subtools are used, generating a normal map in either zbrush or xsi it's impossible, I tried with the current polycount on a 256x256 resolution and it couldn't finish the render. So, hm, I kinda wish I had one of those bad arse nvidia machines (or a mac pro hehe);
An animated next-gen looking Kork might look quite cool. Maybe it's time to complete crossbow 2.0 as well :)
Again, people go for high polycounts because 1) it's possible, 2) great level of detail 3) why not? either for renders or for in game use (normal maps) this pipeline is the best thing since the sliced bread. After Torque technologies, of course :)
#12
Kory, i'll send you the files in a bit.
11/04/2008 (11:01 am)
edit: i figured the initial post is confusing a little bit; working on the model in zbrush ain't so much of a trouble, since I hide parts of the model anyways, rendering the normal maps is the problem.Kory, i'll send you the files in a bit.
#13
Definitely want to break him up, basically do it per material type (i.e. per shader) and you should be good to go.
11/04/2008 (12:21 pm)
FYI: Epic split thier model into parts, there is a limit of 100k polyies in an Obj file, so they split the model into less than that. Basically, they do the "hard" parts and the "Flesh" parts seperately.Definitely want to break him up, basically do it per material type (i.e. per shader) and you should be good to go.
#14
11/04/2008 (12:40 pm)
As of lately, the 100k limit on obj is no longer there. I loaded a 900K one in Softimage.
#15
There is a Zbrush to xNormal pipeline tutorial here: http://www.antonkozlov.com/Tutorials/xNormal.html
11/04/2008 (1:44 pm)
Hmm, one other thing I thought of with rendering out normal maps from Zbrush (if it is choking) is splitting down the model into pieces, than using 3rd party software (free) like [url="http://www.xnormal.net/"]xNormal[/url] to render out the normal maps for each object, than use photoshop to put them back together and touch up the seams.There is a Zbrush to xNormal pipeline tutorial here: http://www.antonkozlov.com/Tutorials/xNormal.html
#16
It's a slap on the hand on its way with the brush towards the canvas.
11/04/2008 (2:03 pm)
There are tons of ways in w to beat up a lousy rig but honestly I don't see why should anyone use a high end application only to break up the work into tiny bits and load it in 3rd party software like xNormal then again, piece them together. The whole point of modern hardware and fast pipelines is lost. Creativity dies really quick when you have to work like an engineer. That's the reason I am an indie, to avoid lousy pipelines and cog work on a schedule using cluttered pipelines.It's a slap on the hand on its way with the brush towards the canvas.
#17
I personally would like to see YOU finish this, since it was your concept and nobody would do it quite like you do.
Thats not to say others cannot finish what you started, it's more of an artist thing.
Would really like to see you take a break from it, and return to complete it at some point.
Nice Job. very nice job.
I vote you stay with it.
11/04/2008 (4:50 pm)
Apparatus, I can understand your frustration. I have been there in another field of work.I personally would like to see YOU finish this, since it was your concept and nobody would do it quite like you do.
Thats not to say others cannot finish what you started, it's more of an artist thing.
Would really like to see you take a break from it, and return to complete it at some point.
Nice Job. very nice job.
I vote you stay with it.
#18
TA is correct as a matter of fact all that is the way all of the character for gears of war were done. But they were actually broken up before even going into Zbrush. If done properly this way you do not have to paint out seams as long as the model was broken properly. I suggest you read d'artiste: Character Modeling 2 there the whole pipeline for gears of war is explained in depth.
the main factor in Zbrush though is ram. Fortunately ram is cheap. The key is having a 64bit OS. Zbrush is a totally different application once you go 64bit and have more than 4GB. if you don't mind can you send me the Kork OBJ file? or post it some where and send me the link you will find my email in my profile.
11/04/2008 (5:53 pm)
@Apparatus: TA is correct as a matter of fact all that is the way all of the character for gears of war were done. But they were actually broken up before even going into Zbrush. If done properly this way you do not have to paint out seams as long as the model was broken properly. I suggest you read d'artiste: Character Modeling 2 there the whole pipeline for gears of war is explained in depth.
the main factor in Zbrush though is ram. Fortunately ram is cheap. The key is having a 64bit OS. Zbrush is a totally different application once you go 64bit and have more than 4GB. if you don't mind can you send me the Kork OBJ file? or post it some where and send me the link you will find my email in my profile.
#19
James, I'd love to read that book but cannot order it from here; even if I could the shipping is half it's price, it has to wait a bit; I have 2 other books (online contest) from Ballistic Publishing but this particular one was not published back then. I am doing a lot of junk work on a day to day basis for a living and I lack the time (and the hardware) to experiment more and actually gain experience. Thus the frustration and lack of patience at some point. I'll send you the obj though is merely based on the original orc, cleaned up of the plate and feet spikes.
edit: the obj is huge (700mb) so I'll have to send you the ztool instead;
11/04/2008 (11:26 pm)
Scott - I will pick it up again anyway and at least get some more insight in ZBrush; Haven't used much the current version.James, I'd love to read that book but cannot order it from here; even if I could the shipping is half it's price, it has to wait a bit; I have 2 other books (online contest) from Ballistic Publishing but this particular one was not published back then. I am doing a lot of junk work on a day to day basis for a living and I lack the time (and the hardware) to experiment more and actually gain experience. Thus the frustration and lack of patience at some point. I'll send you the obj though is merely based on the original orc, cleaned up of the plate and feet spikes.
edit: the obj is huge (700mb) so I'll have to send you the ztool instead;
#20
Also another option is for the folks over at GG to donate a system to Apparatus as his drive, quality of work, and artist eye has inspired more than a few of us to keep with the current GG products rather than moving on to other engines.
I really hate to see an artist not be able to work because he can't afford paints...
11/04/2008 (11:44 pm)
How about we rally a bit as a community and let this great artist and asset to the Torque engines continue his work by supporting and buying some of his content packs?Also another option is for the folks over at GG to donate a system to Apparatus as his drive, quality of work, and artist eye has inspired more than a few of us to keep with the current GG products rather than moving on to other engines.
I really hate to see an artist not be able to work because he can't afford paints...
Torque Owner Mikael Pettersson
Snowpeak Studios
I hope someone will pick it up where you left off.