UNITY

#1 I would like links to threads where community members were attacked by admins and associates. By the way, Matt Fairfax is an employee, not an associate.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to create an anonymous account. No one will ban you for your comments, and I happen to think anonymity can equate to cowardice. Besides, your message is clear and brings up some interesting news that should be looked into and discussed. If you do not stand behind your words, why say them at all?

Still, I would like to read those threads you mentioned because that is not something I want to ignore.

#2 I would like to also mention that I've posted comments without thinking them through, and choose not to edit my remarks. If I screw up, offend someone, or make a stand, I want others to go back and view it if they wish.

Edit- Forgot to mention that I usually self-edit for grammar and spelling, and that's pretty much it.

#3 Please Tek0.... name me if you like.

Edit: My bad... my memory of the thread that the anon poster didn't want to link was fuzzy... sorry Tek0. But still... name me.

#4 I'd like that link, too since AFAIK I'm the only one with an Admin tag running around and have not gone on such attack spree that you've mentioned to my knowledge.

#5 @David: He must be talking about this thread where you comment about Kory's post, then me, then others.

If 'Anonymous1ne' chose to take my comment as an attack, well... [*shrug*] there's nothing I can do about it.

Edit: Oh, and the attack on the GG engine developers... I spent many months working at GG wading through the core of the engine as part of the engine team [note no quotes]. I thought Gerhard's response was fine - no need to get all pissed off and bent out of shape at someone who doesn't understand software.

#6 I want to chime in, not about the rudeness but about tgeaenhanced.blogspot.com

When I went to that blog, it blew my head off. All of a sudden I saw techniques I had been dreaming of.
I had to go back and look more than once, and it still leaves a very large impact on me.

I had to weigh it out in my mind though, this man and his friends sole purpose is to put the TGEA to a punishment test
and see if he could produce a GOW2 with it.

Compare that to the GG team, who has to try and make the most user friendly and now Mac compatible version of TGEA. I am equally astonished by this turn of events. And have even higher hopes for the future of TGEA.

So my hat goes off to both the GG team and to tgeaenhanced.blogspot.com for handling two attacks on
TGEA.

#7 That's the thread where the quote came from, but the only thing that I noted in it was that hijacking isn't the best way to bring the desires to the table. I just posted to it again noting that Kory's stuff would be a good discussion if they were housed in their own thread with links to topics like that to illustrate the quality of what people are bringing to the table.

I have no idea how my comments could have been construed as an attack. Must have been another topic.

#8 First of all; I'm not the OP, but there's something in it that I feel is right on and in the long term will derail this community. The harsh comments on issues seen many times before by the long time members/associates/employees or the asking for tech assistance, improvements to the engine or bugs/errors in general, should not have been made that day, or at all. Type happy fingers, I know it all too well, should sit on hands that can wait a day or two, reviewing the issues in thought and sleep.

-that way a lot of the heat would never occur, and customer base for this 'make a game engine' would not be stunned in round 1-10. I do realize that some stuff posted in blogs and threads tends to stupidity, either from making it in the wrong place, asking what could have been found by searching, or from long timers having a shot at irony/satire/sarcasm. It's obvious why the OP wants to be anonymous; making threads/posts like this tends to get one a notch on the club or a sign in the book. But, being unknown it just adds to the very derailment that the bad attitudes does.

This is tedious work and stupid of me, but I'm convinced that no one else will answer your question, 'links please', Michael:

My best guess would be that the heat is turned towards Tom Spilmans comment Post 7. Bens Post 10. David's reply to post 20 Post 21

As I've once been under the evil eye of both Paul Dana and Tom Spilman for asking questions that I could have handled myself, if I had the code level of those guys, Gerhard Botha, etc., I do understand how harsh they can seem. But just as hard as one might see them, just as foolish they might review what they read from 'guys like us'. Strangely enough, Toms words; 'In many ways having a community of hobbyist mixed in with professionals is one of Torque's greatest strengths'. Made me think why he really cares to type some of the things he does, or why others either slap noobs or whine at developers.

-it's because GG is exactly that place; hobbyists having bought their 'red button tool', and awesome coders having a 'full SDK'. Hobbyists cannot do themselves what they often ask, and pro's are doing stuff that flies directly into the head of the engine. Anyways, where is this going?

-Nowhere, but let's all chill down; the engines are great and the people awesome.

Edited because this forum clips posts due to letter errors : (

#9 This should really be taken seriously? I mean, this guy opened a new account for the sole purpose of ranting with no consequences.

I really think that this type of nosense should deleted from the blog listing.

The obvious consequences of each member of the community opening a second account just for writing crap would be an inmediately destroyed community.

#10 you have read way too much in to the "so called attack" on the engine team, it was a joke that very few got and took the wrong way, but the person who it was addressed at got it!

In light of the 1.8 Announcement that matt has worked very hard on there has been little interest or excitement, but the stuff Gerhard's posting was getting way more attention, I though that was kinda ironic, hence the joke.

At the end of the day they are words on a page and each person will interpret how those words are meant to be taken based on their own bias, thats how most flame wars start... and one main reason i hardly ever get involved in the forums, its one thing having such a great community, but there are way to many lying in wait to pounce on anything they think they can have a go at...serously if you had even bothered to read the post replying to the reply you might have picked what that post was about...

as michael has said, i dont understand why you had to cower behind an anonymous account, we are all free to express ourselves and help each other out or bang a few heads about whats more important.

The engines are great as is the community, but it wont last if people try and pick each other apart.

@ David - maybe you were sleep posting?

#11

Quote:
and i dont mean to sound negative towards gg but this stuff is done by one guy, in his spare time, what the hell does the gg engine "team" do all day? ... me thinks Josh needs a bigger whip... ;)

No one at GG was offended by this =P We get comments like that so often they just roll off our backs these days.

Very shortly after I first started my professional game development career I became extremely frustrated because I wasn't getting more *done*. I mean, here I was doing it full-time and it felt like I was getting even less done than I did when I would spend every night, all night coding away!

Joe Maruschak took me aside when he saw this frustration and gave me some of the best advice I've ever gotten, "Game development is slow."

Doing something properly and making it robust, stable, and reusable just plain takes time and resources. When you are a hobbyist it is fun and exciting to quickly hack something cool into the engine or your game and to show it off to others. It is another thing altogether to take that "cool" thing and turn it into something generally useful to the community (why do you think my old Quake3 BSP work never got released =P).

There is an old adage in software development that the last 10% of the work will take you 90% of the development time and I am here to tell you that it is absolutely true =)

So we don't stress about comments like this. We just keep coming in and plugging away at making the best possible products for you guys as fast as we can =)

#12 Wow "Anonymous1ne" creating a account just for posting this..
Why did you not use your usual account and stand for your opnions.

#13 Well to chime in, I don't find the forums full of overly aggressive or mean comments. I do see some hair brained comments every now and then, but I think that's the nature of forums and their interpretation. A long time ago I was in a location where one person asked another politely what a tar file was (relating to a speaker's comments) and the other guy, without thinking turned to him and said it's a tarball. It's the same way with forums, some people think something is obvious and it just comes out wrong :-) Most forums seem to be pretty unfriendly at times. If you don't believe me, check out any major Linux forum or newsgroup and watch what happens when people ask questions, especially if one of the kernel developers are involved.

Overall the GG community here is pretty good I think.

Making an anonymous account may be against the forum rules so I'd say no-no to that. If it isn't then that's their policy and I have no problem with it. There's not really a slashdot-esque format of posting stuff anonymously, and I suppose since it's GG's business then maybe there shouldn't be either - their choice really. If there was a mechanism it should probably be a forum mechanism and not a blog, but that's just my opinion.

Other than that, as far as people calling him a coward... well I'm a Marine Corps veteran and I have an opinion of civilians. So, to me, going that far just because he may have thought he needed to protect his account and referring to him as a coward (assuming its civilian doing so) is like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black . That's just my opinion on that matter and there's no personal animosity meant in it. I have no problems using my account to post that because like people said, I have no reason to expect any official backlash on it.

To the OP, though, take a breather and give the GG forums another try. Even forums that aren't related to hobbies have that problem with people just being asses at times, but mostly just being misunderstood (sarcasm rarely comes across) lol.

GG has been doing a good job, and most people seem to be posting constructive posts (or sometimes constructive criticism). It could be a lot worse, you could be trying to say something on a Blizzrd or Spore forum and end up not only losing your forum privileges but your entire account (game and all).

Also, something else to remember is that GG forums are really international. You may see people posting comments that did not learn English as their first language. Believe me, having traveled many places, the things inn the language we take for granted that other speakers may not know can change the whole meaning of a conversation - many times that in a written medium.

P.S. I just got the new TorqueX book in the mail and have the Multiplayer TGE on the way and am really excited about them :-)

#14 Yeah these days being "Anonymous" is not really needed. The people at GG are much more rational than they used to be. "Not that they all were irrational but, there were a couple that tended to get completly bent" There were time a few years back that this was not the case. there were a few employees that were way too touchy. Not going to name names but some of them used to come completly unglued on people that complained. I have not seen that in a long time though thank God. A few years back though I know of at least one person that has his account account temporarly revoked but eventually it was resolved.

#15 This is just what the community needs a spring clean and streamlining of people who just are not helping.

Nice one Anonymous1ne!!!!

#16 @Anonymous1ne: I see you were wanting to foster cooperation and sharing. In an online forum such as this it is easy to not be able to follow subtle and unknown threads that many do not have the background to understand. As such, if it does not involve me or the offended one states a hurt, it is best to let it ride. There is probably hidden data we do not have access to.

I have found it best to put in a smiley face (or other appropriate face) when one wants to jest {or rant : ( } even if to just to for warn the uninvolved.

@David. I don,t really see you going off on someone, but others unnamed I can imaging getting caught up in the moment (cough cough michael perry cough cough). ; )
Randy

edit: man I wished this thing would allow apostrophes : (

#17 LOL!

I came into this thread with all of my "Unity is not a better game engine!" arguments all loaded up.

#18 Hmmm... maybe you're right Mark. Unity + game engine development discussion == clever 'viral SEO' [you heard it here first, folks] by one of them marketing peeps at GG! Dyl-AN!

#19 Not every single person is going to get along. Some people are going to feel like their knowledge is being abused by people who don't want to take the time to learn things for themselves. The problem arises when a person is trying to learn on their own, and they run into a situation where no documentation or prior knowledge is pointing them in the right direction. You also have to account for the fact that people just have bad days, and some people are just jerks.

What you can do is make sure that you treat people with the respect they deserve, and this positive attitude will improve the atmosphere of the community. If the community can contribute at the "member" level, we wouldn't have to worry about what a single person says at the "associate" level right?

As for the employees at GG, I see their progress frequently. Everything from the talk of OpenGL support in IRC to Michael Perry's promise to beef up the documentation for TGEA.

You would like to see GG games win awards? As far as I know, they do. Determinance won Game Tunnel's 2007 Innovation Game of the Year. GISH has a number of awards as well.

#20 Just thought I'd note that Gish wasn't a GG game or made with GG tools. It is a very awesome game that is definitely worthy of awards, though!