Brush Based Cliff
by Ben Acord · 08/24/2007 (6:34 pm) · 16 comments
Here's a single cliff face created from brushes. Better performance. This was modeled as a map and tweaked ever so slightly within Constructor then exported as a DIF.
About the author
#2
08/24/2007 (7:02 pm)
Looks nice, I don't see why you have such a LOW fps if all you have in the map is that. This is the one thing I hate about Torque, it seems to not be able to accomplish anything... Good. Like, say someone wanted to make gears in Torque, they could. But apparently the performance would be 3fps as to what I see...
#3
How did you make it?
Nice work.
08/24/2007 (7:03 pm)
Performance is really better than previously Ben.How did you make it?
Nice work.
#4
You could license Unreal 3. The source to Gears is included now to satiate lawsuit-minded licensees.
08/24/2007 (7:51 pm)
@NeillYou could license Unreal 3. The source to Gears is included now to satiate lawsuit-minded licensees.
#5
08/24/2007 (8:32 pm)
If you look close you'll see a lot of triangle tops but vertex mod in Constructor is a nightmare and a half. Though I must say that maybe it's me. I'm used to vertex tweaking in 3D apps but brush based has a learning curve. The starter Cement9 texture works very well for this face because it masks a lot of the cuts as there isn't any smoothing that would be done on a DTS mesh. More details to come... 
#7
... and iv noticed that the most common problem is when two brushes intersects each other ... rather then aligning snuggly face-to-face.... no matter how minute the intersection is. Have you checked if that is what is stealing your FPS?
08/25/2007 (1:21 am)
Running Vista i seem to get a crash as soon as a Dif have the slightest problem. ... and iv noticed that the most common problem is when two brushes intersects each other ... rather then aligning snuggly face-to-face.... no matter how minute the intersection is. Have you checked if that is what is stealing your FPS?
#8
08/25/2007 (1:24 am)
Nope, right now I'm on XP Pro. I do know that there is an overlap on the DTS only face so I'll separate and re-test. Excellent comment. 
#9
08/25/2007 (2:14 am)
@NEIL: Performance also varies by your system of course. Your comparing the performance though in one of the most expensive engines on the market with that of an indie engine. Not really a fair comparison. Of course, with a good system and using TGEA you can get a lot higher frame rate than if your on a P2 with a GeForce 2.
#10
08/25/2007 (6:34 pm)
I am on a $2500 gaming rig and its Neill and I really think this engines main downfall is the performance issues as everything else I love about it but really not a graphically good engine for even 6th gen games. 
#11
08/25/2007 (11:38 pm)
Ben is that Debug or release build?
#12
It's also running on a underpowered laptop: Pentium M 1.60 GHz with 512 MB RAM and an ATI Radeon Mobility 9600.
08/26/2007 (12:09 am)
Release. TGE 1.5.2 & Constructor 1.0.3.It's also running on a underpowered laptop: Pentium M 1.60 GHz with 512 MB RAM and an ATI Radeon Mobility 9600.
#13
08/26/2007 (3:56 am)
@Neill: Are you using TGE or TGEA? I'm using a less expensive gaming rig, and I'm running my project at 120-150 fps average. Running the same map on TGE would rsult in much lower frame rates (30ish). It's not really designed for modern hardware.
#14
08/26/2007 (5:45 pm)
I have both, I really haven't worked with TGEA much because I am just too lazy to start without ready-made, or port what I have ;)
#15
Take a look at this screenshot: http://www.rootkit.com/vault/hoglund/deadmines.jpg
This is the 'deadmines' instance in WoW. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to expect to model a level in Torque that follows this format. In the WoW engine, the walls of the tunnel are single-face and mapped on the inside, obviously. But, in Constructor, I've tried to do this using thin rectangular brushes placed at angles. If I stick to rectangles it's OK - but if I try to deform the face at all by moving vertices I start to get the vanishing face problem. If I use any of the cut or slice tools, it's done - basically destroys the brushes causing this vanishing face effect. Also, if two overlapping rectangles faces are coplanar, you get a real weird morie pattern when rendered in TGE. As an aside, I installed Constructor 1.3 to see if it fixed any of this, but it didn't (and in fact, the brushes exported from 1.3 did not collide w/ the toon anymore - as if they aren't solid, an effect that was not present in the 1.0 exported stuff - ugh). Seems like DIF was designed for boxy-quake-levels and not really meant for amorphic terrain like this. Would be nice to get some pointers on using Constructor to build interior terrain like the deadmines pic I linked above. Maybe its just not possible?
-G
09/04/2007 (5:46 pm)
I have been fighting w/ TGE and Constructor trying to build caves/tunnels. It's extremely diificult. The first problem is, if I try to do anything complex w/ a brush in Constructor, the exported brush has missing faces (aka holes) once rendered in TGE. These are truly missing faces it seems because you can fall through them. Bear in mind that in Constructor, these objects look solid with no missing faces. I also own DeleD and DeleD seems to work better in this regard, exporting DIF's that don't suffer from the vanishing-face problem. Take a look at this screenshot: http://www.rootkit.com/vault/hoglund/deadmines.jpg
This is the 'deadmines' instance in WoW. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to expect to model a level in Torque that follows this format. In the WoW engine, the walls of the tunnel are single-face and mapped on the inside, obviously. But, in Constructor, I've tried to do this using thin rectangular brushes placed at angles. If I stick to rectangles it's OK - but if I try to deform the face at all by moving vertices I start to get the vanishing face problem. If I use any of the cut or slice tools, it's done - basically destroys the brushes causing this vanishing face effect. Also, if two overlapping rectangles faces are coplanar, you get a real weird morie pattern when rendered in TGE. As an aside, I installed Constructor 1.3 to see if it fixed any of this, but it didn't (and in fact, the brushes exported from 1.3 did not collide w/ the toon anymore - as if they aren't solid, an effect that was not present in the 1.0 exported stuff - ugh). Seems like DIF was designed for boxy-quake-levels and not really meant for amorphic terrain like this. Would be nice to get some pointers on using Constructor to build interior terrain like the deadmines pic I linked above. Maybe its just not possible?
-G
Torque 3D Owner J.C. Smith