I'm not dead
by J Sears · 01/03/2007 (10:27 am) · 7 comments
I know most people don't even know who I am but I post a lot on other's blogs and occasionally in the forums.
I had been working on a card game on tgb and while I was working on the mulitplayer aspect something occured to me, that the card game was so simple that tgb wasn't the right choice for it. Now that wasn't time wasted since I do have ideas for tgb and tge and it helped me learn the scripting a good amount. But if I wanted this card game to get a decent amount of users it would probably be better to just put it in a Java applet and make it so people can play it right in their browser. So I have some java applet learning to do.
So in the meantime I have been trying to learn 3d modelling for 2 reasons. First is obviously that most games use lots of 3d models now so if I can even make basic ones that export into torque then I'll be able to help show my ideas better when working on something. Second is I can draw very well but when it comes to making 2d graphics on a computer I can't come close to anything decent with a mouse so I figured I could use 3d graphics to get my 2d images I need and that will make them look incredible too (if I do a good job).
I've had some progress in this area I decided to start off with a car, and instead of being smart to start off with a complex realistic car. I tried blender for a while and just could not get the interface and program to work with me the way I wanted and was getting frustrated like crazy. So I read around and searched around and am currently trying gamespace lite which so far is working faster and easier for me then blender was, one feature I love over blender is when you click mirror it automatically copies and mirrors the image right next to the original and then it's basically one more click to make them both a solid object. If I can produce a good car and some other objets in gamespace lite I'll purchase the full version which isn't a bad price.
So during this time I was thinking about what makes a game last forever as opposed to becoming a big hit for a month and then getting tossed in the closet. The basic answer for modern day gaming is mulitplayer. The biggest hits made multiplayer fun, besides the obvious mmorpg success like WoW let's look at another example. Halo 2, this game has been out for a while and it's player base is still huge. The gameplay itself is far from anything new and it's not even that great there's plenty of complaints from the community on parts that are bugged, or aspects that are ridiculously cheap. But the player base remains huge why is that? Well from a conversation with my cousin (we play 360 games online together) it became pretty obvious, it's ease of mulitplayer use. Most console games try and use the PC multiplayer concept people create game rooms with their chosen settings the players get a list of games and click to join one and stay in it till they get bored and dig through the list with trial and error to find another decent game.
Halo 2 on the other hand most everyone does ranked matches and it has I think 10 categories to choose from. Then to keep things fair it chooses the map the settings and who is teamed with who. So although you get maps you don't like it's much better because everyone is forced to play every type of map and balance their skills as opposed to playing dust2 or office on CSS all day every day and only being good on that map.
Also halo 2 has the best function for console muliplayer that I have not found in any other muliplayer console game yet despite how old halo is. They allow you to make a party, so for instance my cousin and I do double team mode as a party, so it's a mix of 2 v 2 maps at styles of play and it keeps us together in a lobby in between each game so that it forces our accounts to travel together keeping multiplayer so simple. they have this set up for any size party up to their max game size.
Now let's compare the alternative for example we love rainbow six gameplay but the multiplayer setup is the same old same old, you get a list of games (which all share the same name so you have to look at the tiny text of who created the game to find the difference) and try a game out the settings aren't told to you before you enter so you take the long load time to enter check the settings, nope don't like them leave reload the list of games try another until you find one decent. Now you have to invite the other person while there's still an open spot. Now you've played one match and the creater of the game decides he wants a different game style you don't want, well time to leave and reload (and the load times in rainbow six are decently long) in another room. That is going to get old fast and we will be back to halo 2 where we don't like the actual gameplay very much and there are a lot of cheats but the multiplayer format is so easy we just sit back and keep hitting launch and it does the rest.
So I guess the long rant is companies should learn from what other companies do right and apply it as opposed to going back to a method they've been doing for 10 years straight. Also this is a personal opinion that although large battle games are fun like rainbow six allows 8 v 8 realistic battle. There is also the problem at that size of who you get matched with, if you have one buddy online that means you have 6 people you don't know, if the other team is a clan of 8 that all play together all the time this game is not going to go well. Most people do not have 7 other people on xbox at any time to form a good team (for pc games that's all the way up to 32 v 32 on some games now). Now these games are needed and everyone loves big battles. But I think more games should offer a level of the game which is 2v2 or 4v4 for tighter closer groups of players to have fun. That's personal opinion but I think that's also what helped halo 2 stay so big, a couple college roommates could play on two tvs against 2 other guys and that makes it fun and more companion oriented.
Just some thoughts I had while thinking about what a perfect game would be, but I am pretty positive that the biggest hit or miss effect in modern times is how fun multiplayer is in any given games.
Hopefully in a few days I'll have a pretty completed car to show a screen shot of too
oh ya and if anyone knows any great 2v2-4v4 multiplayer games that run on the 360 (so xbox and xbox 360) that have a decent size user base feel free to let me know
I had been working on a card game on tgb and while I was working on the mulitplayer aspect something occured to me, that the card game was so simple that tgb wasn't the right choice for it. Now that wasn't time wasted since I do have ideas for tgb and tge and it helped me learn the scripting a good amount. But if I wanted this card game to get a decent amount of users it would probably be better to just put it in a Java applet and make it so people can play it right in their browser. So I have some java applet learning to do.
So in the meantime I have been trying to learn 3d modelling for 2 reasons. First is obviously that most games use lots of 3d models now so if I can even make basic ones that export into torque then I'll be able to help show my ideas better when working on something. Second is I can draw very well but when it comes to making 2d graphics on a computer I can't come close to anything decent with a mouse so I figured I could use 3d graphics to get my 2d images I need and that will make them look incredible too (if I do a good job).
I've had some progress in this area I decided to start off with a car, and instead of being smart to start off with a complex realistic car. I tried blender for a while and just could not get the interface and program to work with me the way I wanted and was getting frustrated like crazy. So I read around and searched around and am currently trying gamespace lite which so far is working faster and easier for me then blender was, one feature I love over blender is when you click mirror it automatically copies and mirrors the image right next to the original and then it's basically one more click to make them both a solid object. If I can produce a good car and some other objets in gamespace lite I'll purchase the full version which isn't a bad price.
So during this time I was thinking about what makes a game last forever as opposed to becoming a big hit for a month and then getting tossed in the closet. The basic answer for modern day gaming is mulitplayer. The biggest hits made multiplayer fun, besides the obvious mmorpg success like WoW let's look at another example. Halo 2, this game has been out for a while and it's player base is still huge. The gameplay itself is far from anything new and it's not even that great there's plenty of complaints from the community on parts that are bugged, or aspects that are ridiculously cheap. But the player base remains huge why is that? Well from a conversation with my cousin (we play 360 games online together) it became pretty obvious, it's ease of mulitplayer use. Most console games try and use the PC multiplayer concept people create game rooms with their chosen settings the players get a list of games and click to join one and stay in it till they get bored and dig through the list with trial and error to find another decent game.
Halo 2 on the other hand most everyone does ranked matches and it has I think 10 categories to choose from. Then to keep things fair it chooses the map the settings and who is teamed with who. So although you get maps you don't like it's much better because everyone is forced to play every type of map and balance their skills as opposed to playing dust2 or office on CSS all day every day and only being good on that map.
Also halo 2 has the best function for console muliplayer that I have not found in any other muliplayer console game yet despite how old halo is. They allow you to make a party, so for instance my cousin and I do double team mode as a party, so it's a mix of 2 v 2 maps at styles of play and it keeps us together in a lobby in between each game so that it forces our accounts to travel together keeping multiplayer so simple. they have this set up for any size party up to their max game size.
Now let's compare the alternative for example we love rainbow six gameplay but the multiplayer setup is the same old same old, you get a list of games (which all share the same name so you have to look at the tiny text of who created the game to find the difference) and try a game out the settings aren't told to you before you enter so you take the long load time to enter check the settings, nope don't like them leave reload the list of games try another until you find one decent. Now you have to invite the other person while there's still an open spot. Now you've played one match and the creater of the game decides he wants a different game style you don't want, well time to leave and reload (and the load times in rainbow six are decently long) in another room. That is going to get old fast and we will be back to halo 2 where we don't like the actual gameplay very much and there are a lot of cheats but the multiplayer format is so easy we just sit back and keep hitting launch and it does the rest.
So I guess the long rant is companies should learn from what other companies do right and apply it as opposed to going back to a method they've been doing for 10 years straight. Also this is a personal opinion that although large battle games are fun like rainbow six allows 8 v 8 realistic battle. There is also the problem at that size of who you get matched with, if you have one buddy online that means you have 6 people you don't know, if the other team is a clan of 8 that all play together all the time this game is not going to go well. Most people do not have 7 other people on xbox at any time to form a good team (for pc games that's all the way up to 32 v 32 on some games now). Now these games are needed and everyone loves big battles. But I think more games should offer a level of the game which is 2v2 or 4v4 for tighter closer groups of players to have fun. That's personal opinion but I think that's also what helped halo 2 stay so big, a couple college roommates could play on two tvs against 2 other guys and that makes it fun and more companion oriented.
Just some thoughts I had while thinking about what a perfect game would be, but I am pretty positive that the biggest hit or miss effect in modern times is how fun multiplayer is in any given games.
Hopefully in a few days I'll have a pretty completed car to show a screen shot of too
oh ya and if anyone knows any great 2v2-4v4 multiplayer games that run on the 360 (so xbox and xbox 360) that have a decent size user base feel free to let me know
About the author
#2
01/03/2007 (11:03 am)
Hate to see you bailing on TGB for your freecell game. Was hoping you would use what you learned for a TGB card game tutorial or resource. I enjoyed your blogs. Keep us posted on your next project!
#3
> hit for a month and then getting tossed in the closet.
If you're interested in this topic, I recommend reading: "A Theory of Fun" by Raph Koster (creator of Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and others). He has some pretty well-thought out ideas on the "what makes a game fun" topic as well as what gives it longevity, and not all of it is necessarily common-sense kind of stuff.
01/03/2007 (12:05 pm)
> So during this time I was thinking about what makes a game last forever as opposed to becoming a big > hit for a month and then getting tossed in the closet.
If you're interested in this topic, I recommend reading: "A Theory of Fun" by Raph Koster (creator of Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and others). He has some pretty well-thought out ideas on the "what makes a game fun" topic as well as what gives it longevity, and not all of it is necessarily common-sense kind of stuff.
#4
I never actually thought of that, I could take the freecell one and make it into a tutorial/resource, thanks for the idea on that one. I'll work on that soon. The other card game was the one I had dropped tgb for because it was so simple. Freecell I could still finish off (it was down to mostly needing some pretty GUIs at this point) Two ways to look at freecell one is to just make a random deal everytime, that could be set up to run in an applet just fine. The other is that people like to compare how they did on freecell games therefore needing a db of deals, so deal 1 is always the same for example, that isn't good for an applet. So I will do a couple finishing details to the game and release it as a tutorial for people.
@Tom
don't forget halo wars I'm interested to see how that one works out
@Jeppie
I might have to check that out I love UO when it first came out and played it to death (back then it was still really dorky to play online mmorpgs but I convinced people to try it out and enjoy it) SWG let me down though. How does everyone on here always know of game books I've never heard of?
01/03/2007 (12:49 pm)
@TankI never actually thought of that, I could take the freecell one and make it into a tutorial/resource, thanks for the idea on that one. I'll work on that soon. The other card game was the one I had dropped tgb for because it was so simple. Freecell I could still finish off (it was down to mostly needing some pretty GUIs at this point) Two ways to look at freecell one is to just make a random deal everytime, that could be set up to run in an applet just fine. The other is that people like to compare how they did on freecell games therefore needing a db of deals, so deal 1 is always the same for example, that isn't good for an applet. So I will do a couple finishing details to the game and release it as a tutorial for people.
@Tom
don't forget halo wars I'm interested to see how that one works out
@Jeppie
I might have to check that out I love UO when it first came out and played it to death (back then it was still really dorky to play online mmorpgs but I convinced people to try it out and enjoy it) SWG let me down though. How does everyone on here always know of game books I've never heard of?
#5
Here's how I found out about some of the books that I'm currently reading, including "A Theory of Fun"
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3962&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0
01/03/2007 (2:48 pm)
> How does everyone on here always know of game books I've never heard of?Here's how I found out about some of the books that I'm currently reading, including "A Theory of Fun"
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3962&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0
#6
01/03/2007 (4:54 pm)
wow that is a nice little list of books thanks for that link
#7
Could be more complicated, with validated user accounts, authentication, etc, but I think integrating a web-stat collector into a TGB tutorial would be a good idea, I've seen quite a few posts and comments asking how to go about doing it -- and I had, and hopefully still do, have the intention on creating a GUI package that actually allows for full read/write access to phpBB (and others?) forums 'in game' -- but have since been side-tracked on that (actually had(have?) quite a bit completed when I first started).
01/04/2007 (6:13 pm)
@J, sorry to hear to discarded the card game -- I was very interested to see where you went with it. If you do intend to make it a resource, I'd like to propose helping you integrate in some web functionality so that players can pair themselves up against others online as well -- quite a simple task to do using the TCPObject() in TorqueScript. A little PHP or ASP, a server-side database for the web script to read from, and a simple 'addToWebDB' method after completing a 'deal' tossing some stats to the web script.Could be more complicated, with validated user accounts, authentication, etc, but I think integrating a web-stat collector into a TGB tutorial would be a good idea, I've seen quite a few posts and comments asking how to go about doing it -- and I had, and hopefully still do, have the intention on creating a GUI package that actually allows for full read/write access to phpBB (and others?) forums 'in game' -- but have since been side-tracked on that (actually had(have?) quite a bit completed when I first started).

Associate Tom Eastman (Eastbeast314)
You're right on about what makes the game last forever - which makes me anxious for Halo 3. Too many games have fun gameplay but forget the interface that brings it all together.