Hardware Advice for TGE and TSE
by Brandon Pollet · 12/25/2006 (10:23 pm) · 16 comments
I've got a quick question for the community. I'm looking at purchasing a new development laptop in the next couple months but I wanted to see if anyone has any advice on what to pick up.
I'm definitely going with Apple hardware so that puts my options between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. The Pro is obviously better but I wanted to see if anyone out there has a MacBook Core 2 Duo and what their experience has been. Especially if you have any experience with TSE under Windows. If I can get away with the MacBook I can save at least $600 but I'm stuck with Integrated graphics.
For a $600 difference you get to choose between...
MacBook Graphics Hardware
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
MacBook Pro Graphics Hardware
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.16GHz configuration
I know that the Pro is obivously the better machine but choosing it will probably set back my purchase by a couple months during which I could have been working on the go.
Anybody have any input?
Merry Christmas,
BP
I'm definitely going with Apple hardware so that puts my options between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. The Pro is obviously better but I wanted to see if anyone out there has a MacBook Core 2 Duo and what their experience has been. Especially if you have any experience with TSE under Windows. If I can get away with the MacBook I can save at least $600 but I'm stuck with Integrated graphics.
For a $600 difference you get to choose between...
MacBook Graphics Hardware
Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
MacBook Pro Graphics Hardware
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics processor, 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM on 2.16GHz configuration
I know that the Pro is obivously the better machine but choosing it will probably set back my purchase by a couple months during which I could have been working on the go.
Anybody have any input?
Merry Christmas,
BP
About the author
Brandon earned a Master's of Science in Computer Science from the University of Tulsa in 2005 before they asked him to leave. Since then he has worked in web development and mobile development all while honing his game design/programming skills.
#2
Still, these types of "low-end" chips have suprised me in the past. If a friend has a macbook, i would suggest asking them if you could try TGE/TSE on it. Even better if they have bootcamp installed :)
12/26/2006 (4:33 am)
TGE runs fine on an Intel GMA. As for TSE, i have no idea - i'd imagine a bit choppy at best.Still, these types of "low-end" chips have suprised me in the past. If a friend has a macbook, i would suggest asking them if you could try TGE/TSE on it. Even better if they have bootcamp installed :)
#3
12/26/2006 (4:58 am)
I'd definitely wait the couple of months and get the better machine. And in the meantime, develop! You've got a computer right now (I assume)...there is definitely _some_ productive way that you can fill up the time between now and the time you get your Pro.
#5
12/26/2006 (6:32 am)
I use an Inspiron E1705: Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM and 7900GS. It's perfect.
#6
Remember, not only will you be developing your game on this laptop, you will also be showing your game to potential publishers/clients on it. You don't want to show off your efforts on a slow computer -- that just adds one more strike against you and your project. Presentation counts for something.
12/26/2006 (6:37 am)
Feeling trapped by an inadequate tool really stinks -- especially when your dream/livelihood are on the line. If you get the Pro, you won't be kicking yourself later on. Remember, not only will you be developing your game on this laptop, you will also be showing your game to potential publishers/clients on it. You don't want to show off your efforts on a slow computer -- that just adds one more strike against you and your project. Presentation counts for something.
#7
I had the exact same choice to make as yourself last June, but all the machines were single core and I do not regret stepping up one bit. Remeber to buy apple care as well though, if you haven't factored that in, my machine had to have a 400 hundred pound repair after 2 months. Definetly advised on laptops :)
12/26/2006 (9:21 am)
For the record I am developing on the 128mb single core mac book pro with 1gb RAM. - all of the torque engines (TGE, TGB and TGE:A) run excellently in both windows and OSX (where applicable). If you want I can get some benchmark comparisons on my pro and a friends macbook, just hit me up on MSN.I had the exact same choice to make as yourself last June, but all the machines were single core and I do not regret stepping up one bit. Remeber to buy apple care as well though, if you haven't factored that in, my machine had to have a 400 hundred pound repair after 2 months. Definetly advised on laptops :)
#8
But... In my own opinion, I would suggest using a desktop for work and have pc on it. Unless you can get a super slick mac lappy that does the multi boot into Win Mac and different flavors of Linux.
12/26/2006 (9:24 am)
Some intel "integrated" cards do not support shading at all, and even if they did, they would do horrible at it. So, probably best to go with a lappy with ATi or Nvidia.But... In my own opinion, I would suggest using a desktop for work and have pc on it. Unless you can get a super slick mac lappy that does the multi boot into Win Mac and different flavors of Linux.
#9
Just thought about sharing that tale.
p.s. Integrated display cards don't support shaders well, so steer clear from them if possible.
12/26/2006 (9:30 am)
I don't know too much about the Mac platform, but based on my experience I've noticed that many Notebook display cards happen to nerf certain features from them. My friend has a notebook that has an X700 display adapter, and there was another friend that has the lower version of the display card but a PC version. The effect I was working on worked on the PC, but the notebook version, it doesn't work the same. I found out later that certain OpenGL features were taken out of the notebook version. Just thought about sharing that tale.
p.s. Integrated display cards don't support shaders well, so steer clear from them if possible.
#10
The MacBook lacks hardware T&L and vertex shaders which will probably be largely detrimental to any game developing you will do on it.
I have a MacBook Pro and use it regularly as my primary development machine as I am moving about frequently. You should also look into Parallels. I use it to run Windows XP and Gentoo Linux from within OS X to test the compilation of cross-platform programs and test see that they will run to some degree. Unfortunately, that option does not support hardware graphics rendering but that is promised in the future. In any event, if you just want to see if a change will still compile on multiple OS's, it is beneficial to not have to reboot to try.
12/26/2006 (10:06 am)
@Cameron Porter: "But... In my own opinion, I would suggest using a desktop for work and have pc on it." Do you mean stack two computers or install Windows on a desktop? I do not see how the latter, which I assume it be, helps someone in deciding between two Apple laptops.The MacBook lacks hardware T&L and vertex shaders which will probably be largely detrimental to any game developing you will do on it.
I have a MacBook Pro and use it regularly as my primary development machine as I am moving about frequently. You should also look into Parallels. I use it to run Windows XP and Gentoo Linux from within OS X to test the compilation of cross-platform programs and test see that they will run to some degree. Unfortunately, that option does not support hardware graphics rendering but that is promised in the future. In any event, if you just want to see if a change will still compile on multiple OS's, it is beneficial to not have to reboot to try.
#11
12/26/2006 (12:03 pm)
Remember - you can upgrade RAM and HD space, and even CPU speed, aftermarket. Usually, you can't upgrade the video card. Skimp on the former, splurge on the latter. I've been developing TSE on a Radeon Mobile 9600 for years, to great effect. 
#12
12/27/2006 (6:14 am)
I have a Compaq Presario with an ATIX200 which runs Torque well. It's Shader 2.0 and I bought the whole thing for $900 AUD - about $600 US. Stick with the ATI if you are on a budget.
#13
Most are dust collectors.
Did you need mobile 100%? Otherwise just a more generic pc.
The Apple commericals where the guy is all slick and pc guy is geek is of course not real it's fantasy.
It's not really apple hardware it's stuff they contract out with intel based cpu's on X86 platform.
Don't pay for a sticker is what I am trying to say..
12/27/2006 (7:57 am)
Only a small percentage of folks that buy laptops actually put hardcore hours on them.Most are dust collectors.
Did you need mobile 100%? Otherwise just a more generic pc.
The Apple commericals where the guy is all slick and pc guy is geek is of course not real it's fantasy.
It's not really apple hardware it's stuff they contract out with intel based cpu's on X86 platform.
Don't pay for a sticker is what I am trying to say..
#14
Gary (-;
12/27/2006 (9:01 am)
I have the more expensive 15" Core2Duo Macbook pro and it's rippingly fast. Works wonderfully for me.Gary (-;
#15
Thanks everyone!
- Brandon
12/27/2006 (10:49 am)
Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. I wasn't sure if the MacBook supportred Hardware T&L so it's good to hear it doesn't. I also completely forgot that after the move to intel you can upgrade the CPU in an Apple Laptop without much trouble, that does make the extra cash for a good graphics card not seem so bad.Thanks everyone!
- Brandon
Torque 3D Owner Phil Carlisle