In the spirit of giving...
by Phil Carlisle · 12/22/2006 (8:19 pm) · 11 comments
Ok, tis the season to by jolly or some other crap..
So I thought I'd throw this out there to all you GG'ers.
A looong time ago now, when this site first started up, a guy called Scott Miller was lurking around and posting here and there. He seemed pretty cool, but I didnt think much of it at the time.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, we agreed on some topics and got talking about stuff. It turns out Scott had touched my life previously, back when I ran my own little games store (goddam me for never taking pictures of things that have been important in my life!). I didnt know it, but Scott was actually instrumental in a lot of what I did back then (I sold games and shareware).
If you want to know more about Scotts story (believe me, you do), go get Masters of Doom which is also a cracking read if your even remotely interested in games.
Scott was instrumental in some of the greatest games and many that touched my life in quite a deep way.
Anyway, Scott became a great mentor to me, although he probably doesnt know it :) I learnt a hell of a lot from him, although I'm kind of shy of saying as much to him directly :) He's one of those people in the industry, like Jeff, you really should listen to.
Anyway, it was Scott who introduced me to something he'd picked up from hard experience shipping games and its this I'm going to share with you tonight. Scott taught me one thing he's really heavily into and that is the concept of "positioning". Positioning kind of summarizes as "where someone puts something in thier brain so they can get it back quickly". What this means for games, is "how does someone remember YOUR game and not someone else's".
Well, there are a few really good books on the subject, so I'll let you do your homework. To really get the skinny, hop on over to Scotts blog and get the books he recommends.
Anyhoo, to get back to the point. As you start to learn more about positioning, you are inevitably going to come across another guy in that field called Seth Godin. He's the author of Purple Cow and seems to have a handle on things, given his client list. You can also check out his site Here
So anyway, the other day on the indiegamer forums, someone posted this link and I thought I'd share it, because I kind of see how it can be relevant to game developers.
Video of Seth Godin at google
Enjoy.
So I thought I'd throw this out there to all you GG'ers.
A looong time ago now, when this site first started up, a guy called Scott Miller was lurking around and posting here and there. He seemed pretty cool, but I didnt think much of it at the time.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, we agreed on some topics and got talking about stuff. It turns out Scott had touched my life previously, back when I ran my own little games store (goddam me for never taking pictures of things that have been important in my life!). I didnt know it, but Scott was actually instrumental in a lot of what I did back then (I sold games and shareware).
If you want to know more about Scotts story (believe me, you do), go get Masters of Doom which is also a cracking read if your even remotely interested in games.
Scott was instrumental in some of the greatest games and many that touched my life in quite a deep way.
Anyway, Scott became a great mentor to me, although he probably doesnt know it :) I learnt a hell of a lot from him, although I'm kind of shy of saying as much to him directly :) He's one of those people in the industry, like Jeff, you really should listen to.
Anyway, it was Scott who introduced me to something he'd picked up from hard experience shipping games and its this I'm going to share with you tonight. Scott taught me one thing he's really heavily into and that is the concept of "positioning". Positioning kind of summarizes as "where someone puts something in thier brain so they can get it back quickly". What this means for games, is "how does someone remember YOUR game and not someone else's".
Well, there are a few really good books on the subject, so I'll let you do your homework. To really get the skinny, hop on over to Scotts blog and get the books he recommends.
Anyhoo, to get back to the point. As you start to learn more about positioning, you are inevitably going to come across another guy in that field called Seth Godin. He's the author of Purple Cow and seems to have a handle on things, given his client list. You can also check out his site Here
So anyway, the other day on the indiegamer forums, someone posted this link and I thought I'd share it, because I kind of see how it can be relevant to game developers.
Video of Seth Godin at google
Enjoy.
About the author
#2
Is there a crowd out there looking for games that offer a different experience than what they are used to getting from AAA titles and free flash aggrigators? If they are out there, they are going to want to hear about your game when you finish it. Nice. So where is that conversation going to take place where it's actually responding to the desire of the consumer?
Speaking of permission marketing, does anyone here want to give me permission to market a Billiards game to them?
12/22/2006 (10:13 pm)
Nice find. Good message for indies trying to get their games out there to the crowd that is looking for them.Is there a crowd out there looking for games that offer a different experience than what they are used to getting from AAA titles and free flash aggrigators? If they are out there, they are going to want to hear about your game when you finish it. Nice. So where is that conversation going to take place where it's actually responding to the desire of the consumer?
Speaking of permission marketing, does anyone here want to give me permission to market a Billiards game to them?
#3
12/22/2006 (10:31 pm)
Mark, well, I am sure there are.. its getting to tell a story to them and telling it convincingly thats the point of Godins stuff I think. That and enabling them to tell that story to others.
#4
12/22/2006 (10:34 pm)
Thanx for the vid and Merry what-have-you!!!
#5
12/22/2006 (10:37 pm)
So Phil, what's the story you are going to tell them for your game?
#7
Thanks for the video. It really helped me confirm some suspicions that I've had with Switching Gears and I do believe that if my programmer can solve the one last big problem, I believe that's our purple cow.
Thanks,
Fredrik S
12/23/2006 (12:23 am)
Phil. Thanks for the video. It really helped me confirm some suspicions that I've had with Switching Gears and I do believe that if my programmer can solve the one last big problem, I believe that's our purple cow.
Thanks,
Fredrik S
#8
12/23/2006 (1:56 am)
Mark, my story would be "well, this teeny tiny developer managed to make a flight sim". Its a crap story, but its a story.
#9
I would guess there are some Flight Sim people who don't want to give their money to MS, so you might hit a need there. But how big is that crowd? And is your game really a "Flight Sim?"
Personally, I could get into to nice multiplayer dogfighting game that doesn't take a huge time investment to get decent at and have fun with. I'd even buy a copy for my Dad, because I know he'd enjoy that too. (We both enjoyed "Hellcats over the Pacific" back in the day. Bored to tears by "FA18 Hornet.") Don't know how Air Ace fits into the mix, but that's an area I'd be willing to hear about.
But if that's not Air Ace, where does it fit? What desire does it fill for the potential customer? What made you get excited about making this game? What keeps the team working on it? I bet there's a good story in there somewhere.
Probably a little too much thinking for a Holiday Weekend, but I find this stuff interesting.
So Merry Christmas, and here's to a new year for making remarkable games!
12/23/2006 (9:12 am)
You can do better Phil. :) Remember, if you don't buy your own story, neither will anyone else... I would guess there are some Flight Sim people who don't want to give their money to MS, so you might hit a need there. But how big is that crowd? And is your game really a "Flight Sim?"
Personally, I could get into to nice multiplayer dogfighting game that doesn't take a huge time investment to get decent at and have fun with. I'd even buy a copy for my Dad, because I know he'd enjoy that too. (We both enjoyed "Hellcats over the Pacific" back in the day. Bored to tears by "FA18 Hornet.") Don't know how Air Ace fits into the mix, but that's an area I'd be willing to hear about.
But if that's not Air Ace, where does it fit? What desire does it fill for the potential customer? What made you get excited about making this game? What keeps the team working on it? I bet there's a good story in there somewhere.
Probably a little too much thinking for a Holiday Weekend, but I find this stuff interesting.
So Merry Christmas, and here's to a new year for making remarkable games!
#10
So Air Ace is basically Air Attack in nature, with the new graphics of a modern engine and some updates in gameplay.
I got into Air Attack via a UK community that used to play on the only remaining server in Korea. Although recently the US devs have put up the game again and its starting to get some play. I see Air Ace fitting in there still with the "I want a quick blast for a bit" crowd. Although I see that actually organised play is more popular for the community.
At the end of the day, I dont see that Air Ace offers anything new from the actual "Game" side so much as it offers something new from the "Community" side. Making it easier to get into a game and have fun has been our over-arching goal, so having a community support site and all of the matchmaking functions that requires has been our key goal, beyond actually completing the game itself.
To be honest though Mark, I dont think Air Ace is an example of what Seth is talking about. I started the game because I wanted to make it. It's still going because WE want it to happen, not because there is necassarily a market crying out for it. I dont really care about the story so much here, because it will make up its own stories in time. Think of it as a learning experience I guess, much like Lore has been for the MGT guys.
I think the amount we've learnt on Air Ace has been worth the price of admission, the years required to produce it and the personal investment have been worth it if we understand more about the process from it and I feel we definitely do.
Now next year holds so many more possibilities.
12/23/2006 (3:34 pm)
Mark, well, the game itself is really a homage to two games. Red Baron and Air Attack. I'm hoping you already know Red Baron. Red Baron itself was great because it was "instant action". Air Attack was an online only game back in the heyday of online services like AOL etc. There was a service in the UK called "Wireplay" and it used to run an online game called Air Attack. Air Attack on the surface looked similar to warbirds etc, but actually, it was a quite different beast. Because it was primarily a dogfighting game, it was a lot easier to handle than other "simulations" of the time.So Air Ace is basically Air Attack in nature, with the new graphics of a modern engine and some updates in gameplay.
I got into Air Attack via a UK community that used to play on the only remaining server in Korea. Although recently the US devs have put up the game again and its starting to get some play. I see Air Ace fitting in there still with the "I want a quick blast for a bit" crowd. Although I see that actually organised play is more popular for the community.
At the end of the day, I dont see that Air Ace offers anything new from the actual "Game" side so much as it offers something new from the "Community" side. Making it easier to get into a game and have fun has been our over-arching goal, so having a community support site and all of the matchmaking functions that requires has been our key goal, beyond actually completing the game itself.
To be honest though Mark, I dont think Air Ace is an example of what Seth is talking about. I started the game because I wanted to make it. It's still going because WE want it to happen, not because there is necassarily a market crying out for it. I dont really care about the story so much here, because it will make up its own stories in time. Think of it as a learning experience I guess, much like Lore has been for the MGT guys.
I think the amount we've learnt on Air Ace has been worth the price of admission, the years required to produce it and the personal investment have been worth it if we understand more about the process from it and I feel we definitely do.
Now next year holds so many more possibilities.
#11
I just didn't see anything revolutionary in what he said, I think it's good to listen to it to help enforce it in your head so you stay on the right track. But if you can't figure out that you need something different and something remarkable in it's own way to be very successfull then you should let someone else handle the bussiness and marketing plans.
His yahoo auction idea was a nice touch, which I think is good for people on here to hear since more often then not when someone is talking about a game desing on here they say (it's based off of this game that I loved) and that is great for a hobby but if you plan to make it as an indie you can't afford that the only people who can are companies like EA who make AAA games with the best possible graphics on each new game and sells to the people who liked the last game but now there's new weapons new maps and look how cool that explosion is.
One thing that I used to complain about tv ads (this is just a random thought) to anyone who would listen is why do people like Mcdonald's and Visa have tv ads. There is no one in the US that does not know what mcdonalds is, and probably just as few people that have never had at least one of their products. Also never have I heard of someone seeing a mcdonalds ad and having an instant craving. So why ad UNLESS it's to say hey we have this new product (even then they're so huge anyone who likes mcdonalds will see the new product when they go and once again tell their buddies) just never understood those constant ads.
Thanks again for the link I like those kind of links and enjoyed the video, and that masters of doom book sounded interested I grew up on doom, loved it, made maps for it back in the day, I even bought it on the xbox 360 arcade to relive the fun. I will have to read that book some day
12/24/2006 (9:40 pm)
I liked the link, I watched it out of cuiosity and not having anything better to do at that exact moment (then I figured out it was 40 minutes long but since I started it I needed to watch it all) The only part that amazes me is that anyone can be surprised by what this guy is saying. When I was in the Navy we all used to talk about what we were going to do when we go out. I have always wanted to run my own bussiness (biggest problem is I don't see anything unique enough that I can do and make a living maybe eventually I'll figure it out) but in brainstorming with people they'd say well how would you have the money to make it get started and work out. And I said that the biggest thing is to start with something you can afford to do and that people will like and let it spread by word of mouth. Word of mouth has been obviously the best way of marketing for a long time. And I can not imagine that people especially who work in any form of marketing can be surprised to have someone tell them that. I just didn't see anything revolutionary in what he said, I think it's good to listen to it to help enforce it in your head so you stay on the right track. But if you can't figure out that you need something different and something remarkable in it's own way to be very successfull then you should let someone else handle the bussiness and marketing plans.
His yahoo auction idea was a nice touch, which I think is good for people on here to hear since more often then not when someone is talking about a game desing on here they say (it's based off of this game that I loved) and that is great for a hobby but if you plan to make it as an indie you can't afford that the only people who can are companies like EA who make AAA games with the best possible graphics on each new game and sells to the people who liked the last game but now there's new weapons new maps and look how cool that explosion is.
One thing that I used to complain about tv ads (this is just a random thought) to anyone who would listen is why do people like Mcdonald's and Visa have tv ads. There is no one in the US that does not know what mcdonalds is, and probably just as few people that have never had at least one of their products. Also never have I heard of someone seeing a mcdonalds ad and having an instant craving. So why ad UNLESS it's to say hey we have this new product (even then they're so huge anyone who likes mcdonalds will see the new product when they go and once again tell their buddies) just never understood those constant ads.
Thanks again for the link I like those kind of links and enjoyed the video, and that masters of doom book sounded interested I grew up on doom, loved it, made maps for it back in the day, I even bought it on the xbox 360 arcade to relive the fun. I will have to read that book some day
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