This Land is Your Land - game dev part 3
by James · 11/04/2006 (7:27 am) · 12 comments
My last blog in this... series (!?), I started elaborating on how time and seasons might function in People of the Dawn. What I hoped to receive feedback on was whether the approach to aging [1.2] made sense, was okay given its abstraction (if that's the right word). But instead, I was corrected on my lifespan assumption for early humans (Cro-Magnon/ Upper Paleolithic). Unsung Zero didn't just point out a fundamental error in my estimation but also a very basic error in process when developing a simulation based game: Research. Now that's a "Bad designer. No twinkie" situation if I ever heard one! :)
So thanks Zero, I've updated my Design Document to take that into account and Stephan, I've also adjusted it based on current knowledge.
That's the major reason why I'm posting these blogs. It's this kind of feedback that will help me learn and make a better game.
Well, let's carry on with the final part of section 1.0
Quote:There are a number of ways to classify Ecozones but for this version of the Design Document, I decided to focus on a small selection to begin with. Further research will be done to determine what opportunities exist in this area. At least it gives me a good place to start :)
1.3 - Environments or Ecozones
The development of environments and maps for People of the Dawn will attempt to provide a variety of terrain and climate for the Player. These would include:
* Woodland
* Scrub
* Grassland
* Tundra
There will be 3 terrains designed for each climate type giving a total of 12 maps.
In addition, each map will be modified via code to represent seasonal changes and growth.
Future development will link areas in to a complete map allowing for tribal movement.
Quote:Well, that's it for section 1. I almost didn't bother posting these as it's not the most interesting thing to read but I decided to do so for two reasons:
1.4 - Customization
The player can customize the base set of Ecozone maps affecting such aspects as climate, resources and animal populations.
Future development of People of the Dawn will allow for more extensive customization and level sharing.
1. It helps motivate me to work on the document and move the project forward.
2. I'm developing this on my own and by posting my ideas and thinking, I hope to get some feedback in the form of critique and suggestions.
And that's what has been happening - cool :)
So what's next? Well, I've basically outlined the game and now I think it's time to get stuck into the heart of it: Game Play. The next few blogs I hope to explore, perhaps out of sequence, various parts of the game mechanics and at the same time, describe the Player experience in some detail.
I am also considering an attempt to build a paper-based prototype to try out some of the key features of the simulation. It is something like a mixture of tabletop wargaming and role-playing. Well, let's see how useful that is.
And for you to critique, another design attempt for one of the characters in "People of the Dawn" - Trunk.
As always, your thoughts, criticism and suggestions are all welcome.
Until next time
#2
But I see a spear!!! Getting closer :O)
Nice image, but he looks a little casual for some one who would probably eat his mother if it came down to it.
11/04/2006 (9:49 am)
Tiny thumb, who combs his beard? :PBut I see a spear!!! Getting closer :O)
Nice image, but he looks a little casual for some one who would probably eat his mother if it came down to it.
#3
11/04/2006 (9:52 am)
Your blogs about this have been awesome! Keep it up!
#4
@ Everyone - thank you for the feedback :)
11/04/2006 (2:43 pm)
@ Todd - Ack! You're right. The thumb is way to small and beard looks more like a mane. As far as his disposition, well... let me see what I can do ;)@ Everyone - thank you for the feedback :)
#5
So aren't there 16 maps instead?
I love your art. When are the T-Shirts out?
Thanks for the "credits". 8-)
STef
11/04/2006 (3:53 pm)
@James: you mention 12 maps with 3 terrains. It's supposed to handle each 4 climate, but you do list 4 terrains...So aren't there 16 maps instead?
I love your art. When are the T-Shirts out?
Thanks for the "credits". 8-)
STef
#6
Nice to know someone is reading this stuff. Thanks for pointing that out Stephan :)
There will be T-shirts the moment I figure out what the damn thing is going to look like ;)
*edit: almost goofed it up again - argh!
11/04/2006 (6:30 pm)
@ Stephan - No the math is right but the verbage is not. I'll correct it in the document but it should read (and I hope this is better):Quote:There will be 3 maps designed for each of the 4 environments, giving a total of 12 maps.
Nice to know someone is reading this stuff. Thanks for pointing that out Stephan :)
There will be T-shirts the moment I figure out what the damn thing is going to look like ;)
*edit: almost goofed it up again - argh!
#7
What I envision in my head, is a sort of venture arctic meets the sims meets populous. A very low intensity strategy game, a sort of arctic sandbox if you will.
Nice.
11/05/2006 (4:17 am)
I really love the basic concept. I also love the overall art style and feel of it. It could make a really nice casual feeling strategy game.What I envision in my head, is a sort of venture arctic meets the sims meets populous. A very low intensity strategy game, a sort of arctic sandbox if you will.
Nice.
#8
You've intrigued me with the "casual" label as I thought this would be too involved for that market. Like to find out more on your thinking there.
I think you have the right idea though, there is a bit of the Sims and "God" games in this. The proposed control and selection system I'll get into that in my next blog.
Cheers!
11/05/2006 (1:26 pm)
Thanks Phil :)You've intrigued me with the "casual" label as I thought this would be too involved for that market. Like to find out more on your thinking there.
I think you have the right idea though, there is a bit of the Sims and "God" games in this. The proposed control and selection system I'll get into that in my next blog.
Cheers!
#9
I do have some critiques, however. As I've said above, I think the art style is great, but there are a few small anatomical mistakes:
* Foreshortening of the right arm. Visually this is the easiest mistake to pinpoint. The spear arm is a bit too long, and the foreshortening reads as if the arm is coming out towards the viewer. However, the spear is positioned next to the his feet in the snow, so the brain gets confused trying to position the spear spatially. You also need to consider that since our friend is positioned in a three-quarter view, the right arm is going to be partially hidden.
* Right hand thumb. The thumb is too small proportionally to the rest of the digits. It's also positioned in front of the spear, which is a little odd. It's hard to tell if it's curling around the spear shaft, or if it's totally disconnected from it. Normally it would be pressed against the shaft's side.
* Left hand fingers. They fingers look unfinished, as though you couldn't decide how to position the fingers.
* Thickness of the legs. The shins and feet become extremely narrow, and they don't look like they could accommodate the weight of our burly friend. You'd need thick legs and wide feet to distribute his weight, and so he didn't topple over as soon as he moved. Unless you're doing an extreme stylisation, legs will be slightly thicker than arms, if they are thicker at all.
* Positioning of the legs. It's minor, but the left leg should be partially covering the right, and should be slightly more forward and to the character's right (our left).
These critiques are more to do with details of the concept itself:
* Thickness of the spear shaft. Compared to his chubby hands, the shaft is a toothpick. His hands would need an appropriately thick shaft so he could manipulate it comfortably. A good comparison in tool manipulation is to imagine him playing a guitar. His fingers are so thick that to play it properly, the guitar would need a much wider neck. The same applies to the spear.
* No hand protection. In such cold weather, the extremities are the first areas to succumb to frostbite. However, our friend could clearly care less. He's not going to be able to hold that spear for much longer, let me tell you.
* Clothing details. The coat has a great texture, but it's missing some details. This may include buttons, rope, belts, underlining, pockets, or whatever you decide. If he was on a long journey or hunting, he would also have provisions, such as packed food and a water skin.
* No snowy beard. He would just look cool if there was some snow in his beard. Chances are that it might be windy as well, so you may want to give his hair that hippy windswept look.
I hope that helps. Otherwise, I think it's a lovely concept, and I look forward to seeing more art from you.
Cheers,
Paul.
11/05/2006 (9:41 pm)
You have a great style and I think Phil is right: the quirky aesthetic that you've run with would appeal to a casual audience. Art style is one of the awesome visual weapons we indie developers have at our disposal, so when you manage to hit on something unique, you've got to drive it hard.I do have some critiques, however. As I've said above, I think the art style is great, but there are a few small anatomical mistakes:
* Foreshortening of the right arm. Visually this is the easiest mistake to pinpoint. The spear arm is a bit too long, and the foreshortening reads as if the arm is coming out towards the viewer. However, the spear is positioned next to the his feet in the snow, so the brain gets confused trying to position the spear spatially. You also need to consider that since our friend is positioned in a three-quarter view, the right arm is going to be partially hidden.
* Right hand thumb. The thumb is too small proportionally to the rest of the digits. It's also positioned in front of the spear, which is a little odd. It's hard to tell if it's curling around the spear shaft, or if it's totally disconnected from it. Normally it would be pressed against the shaft's side.
* Left hand fingers. They fingers look unfinished, as though you couldn't decide how to position the fingers.
* Thickness of the legs. The shins and feet become extremely narrow, and they don't look like they could accommodate the weight of our burly friend. You'd need thick legs and wide feet to distribute his weight, and so he didn't topple over as soon as he moved. Unless you're doing an extreme stylisation, legs will be slightly thicker than arms, if they are thicker at all.
* Positioning of the legs. It's minor, but the left leg should be partially covering the right, and should be slightly more forward and to the character's right (our left).
These critiques are more to do with details of the concept itself:
* Thickness of the spear shaft. Compared to his chubby hands, the shaft is a toothpick. His hands would need an appropriately thick shaft so he could manipulate it comfortably. A good comparison in tool manipulation is to imagine him playing a guitar. His fingers are so thick that to play it properly, the guitar would need a much wider neck. The same applies to the spear.
* No hand protection. In such cold weather, the extremities are the first areas to succumb to frostbite. However, our friend could clearly care less. He's not going to be able to hold that spear for much longer, let me tell you.
* Clothing details. The coat has a great texture, but it's missing some details. This may include buttons, rope, belts, underlining, pockets, or whatever you decide. If he was on a long journey or hunting, he would also have provisions, such as packed food and a water skin.
* No snowy beard. He would just look cool if there was some snow in his beard. Chances are that it might be windy as well, so you may want to give his hair that hippy windswept look.
I hope that helps. Otherwise, I think it's a lovely concept, and I look forward to seeing more art from you.
Cheers,
Paul.
#10
As for the details in the costume, this is something I am aware of and I've been looking into that very thing for the next drawing. You'll see a fleshed out basic costume then.
The huge hands, etc... well, I must admit I've jumped back and forth between a very stylized cartoonish look and realistic approach, and that's the confusion I think you see there. The original sketch was very stylised and I lost track of that as I got into painting and experimenting with brushes :)
The feedback from you and others is helping a great deal to move me in the right direct - I really appreciate it.
Thank you for the pointers and comments :)
*bit of bad spelling, etc :)
11/06/2006 (4:05 am)
Thanks Paul. Many of the elements you've mentioned are spot on. I'm very (VERY) rusty at the moment but these critiques will be a great help to me in improving the concept drawings.As for the details in the costume, this is something I am aware of and I've been looking into that very thing for the next drawing. You'll see a fleshed out basic costume then.
The huge hands, etc... well, I must admit I've jumped back and forth between a very stylized cartoonish look and realistic approach, and that's the confusion I think you see there. The original sketch was very stylised and I lost track of that as I got into painting and experimenting with brushes :)
The feedback from you and others is helping a great deal to move me in the right direct - I really appreciate it.
Thank you for the pointers and comments :)
*bit of bad spelling, etc :)
#11
I too agree with the comments above regarding your style being well suited for casual games. You've taken a very unfriendly environment and made it feel safe and inviting.
I think that playing with the paper+pen table top version is a wonderful idea. It takes less time to setup and change than a computer based prototype. The biggest difference (that I can think of at the moment) is that table top prototypes will be turn based while your game may not be.
If you would be interested, I could dig up some good resources for research. I've always been interested in this sort of 'tribal' living. I used to know of a few sites with good information, I'll try and find them and pass them on.
11/06/2006 (8:27 am)
I feel honored to have been mentioned in this blog :]I too agree with the comments above regarding your style being well suited for casual games. You've taken a very unfriendly environment and made it feel safe and inviting.
I think that playing with the paper+pen table top version is a wonderful idea. It takes less time to setup and change than a computer based prototype. The biggest difference (that I can think of at the moment) is that table top prototypes will be turn based while your game may not be.
If you would be interested, I could dig up some good resources for research. I've always been interested in this sort of 'tribal' living. I used to know of a few sites with good information, I'll try and find them and pass them on.
#12
The tabletop prototype will be turnbased but it's really to experiment with the game mechanics, rules and test assumptions (ack!). To be honest, I have no idea how well it will work, it just seemed to call to me ;)
If you're on Messenger, give me a shout: james@crowtrees.ca
Cheers and thinks :)
11/06/2006 (1:25 pm)
Thanks Zero, help in the research side would be wicked and appreciated :)The tabletop prototype will be turnbased but it's really to experiment with the game mechanics, rules and test assumptions (ack!). To be honest, I have no idea how well it will work, it just seemed to call to me ;)
If you're on Messenger, give me a shout: james@crowtrees.ca
Cheers and thinks :)
Associate Joseph Euan