Exis Freedom
by Peter Kojesta · 10/04/2006 (1:01 pm) · 22 comments
Exis is a small indie developer; we create our own games and contract our art/programming services to other companies. I started making games and game art when I was 14 years old (back in the Atarti & NES days), and started in the industry in 1998. 8 years later I'm very happy to still be working in this industry; which is something you don't hear too many people say anymore. In early 2005 I saw the new console generation and the coming transition year slowly creeping up on the industry. I had considered buying an Xbox 360, a PS3, and even a Wii if I could afford them all. The reason I probably won't buy any of them is because too many genres, the RTS and FPS genres to name a few, are made unplayable by an uninspired and outdated controller design. A mouse and keyboard are cumbersome at best and they remove the visual appeal of a well organized entertainment system. Since having a mouse and keyboard lying in front of the TV was not an option, I designed the Freedom controller.
The Freedom controller gives users wireless mouse functionality and normal game-pad control at the same time. It's meant to be a clean, modular gamepad that allows one to retain the "console culture". The controller has two main elements, the first is the wireless gamepad portion, and the second is the wireless optical mouse. Users can attach and detach the two distinct portions in order to get the functionality they want. You want action game controls, connect the two sections together. You want RTS controls, detach the optical mouse and command your troops properly. This is the core functionality of the Exis Freedom controller; it brings a useful and battle hardened control scheme to the game consoles. I've done enough industrial design in my time to be able to effectively show how this controller can be done. So the interesting thing is that I've had one of Microsoft's partners offer to fund development of this controller, but only if MS gives the okay, so I guess we'll see what happens.
- Peter Kojeta
The Freedom controller gives users wireless mouse functionality and normal game-pad control at the same time. It's meant to be a clean, modular gamepad that allows one to retain the "console culture". The controller has two main elements, the first is the wireless gamepad portion, and the second is the wireless optical mouse. Users can attach and detach the two distinct portions in order to get the functionality they want. You want action game controls, connect the two sections together. You want RTS controls, detach the optical mouse and command your troops properly. This is the core functionality of the Exis Freedom controller; it brings a useful and battle hardened control scheme to the game consoles. I've done enough industrial design in my time to be able to effectively show how this controller can be done. So the interesting thing is that I've had one of Microsoft's partners offer to fund development of this controller, but only if MS gives the okay, so I guess we'll see what happens.
- Peter Kojeta
#2
- Peter
10/04/2006 (1:50 pm)
Ian: The right part detaches and is used as a normal optical mouse is used. you can drag it on your lap or the couch arms. I tested that out and it works fine. You don't need to use the thumbstick on the optical mouse part, it's only there for when you reconnect the controller to play action games or something.- Peter
#3
Peter, it sounds like a great idea. Have you contacted anyone from Sony or Nintendo during all this time? The only thing I might disagree is the math you did about multiplying $300 million by 7 because I don't think you'll ever get 30% of console games to be RTS. Console players have traditionally been a somewhat different consumer group than PC game players so I think that number might be a bit smaller. Still, I think the potential is there, I'm with you.
Nick
10/04/2006 (1:51 pm)
I don't think you need to use the right (mouse) thumbstick, only the left one. You would use the right part just like you use a regular mouse from what I can tell.Peter, it sounds like a great idea. Have you contacted anyone from Sony or Nintendo during all this time? The only thing I might disagree is the math you did about multiplying $300 million by 7 because I don't think you'll ever get 30% of console games to be RTS. Console players have traditionally been a somewhat different consumer group than PC game players so I think that number might be a bit smaller. Still, I think the potential is there, I'm with you.
Nick
#4
Looks good, if there is a way i think it would great to allow the right thumbstick to click into the pad, so it lays flat to the rest of the pad, this would make it easier to use as a mouse.
just my opinion ofcourse :)
10/04/2006 (2:12 pm)
Oh i see now :) sorry i completely missed the optical sensor :)Looks good, if there is a way i think it would great to allow the right thumbstick to click into the pad, so it lays flat to the rest of the pad, this would make it easier to use as a mouse.
just my opinion ofcourse :)
#5
10/04/2006 (2:15 pm)
Why not pitch a wired controller to Microsoft instead?
#6
Nick: good info.
www.exisinteractive.com/applications/phpBB/index.php
10/04/2006 (2:16 pm)
Ian: I think it would be great if you joined our forums, those kinds of ideas are what an opensource hardware community needs. I'm hoping to bring people together to build something meaningful here.Nick: good info.
www.exisinteractive.com/applications/phpBB/index.php
#7
10/04/2006 (2:28 pm)
I'm not suprised by the response you got from Microsoft. Good read and I agree it sounds like a great idea.
#8
It's funny because the Nintendo Wii seems to be the most wanted console of all from the amount of people I've spoken to about it or seen posting on forums and this is the console where new forms of input are the selling point of the console. I hope the Wii outsells the PS3 and the 360, (although I'm a major 360 fan, I bought one 3 months ago and love it to bits) I really hope Nintendo shows the corporate game development machine that innovation is a good thing.
10/04/2006 (2:33 pm)
Whilst I don't think I can particularly help you much I will say that this interests me very much as I've been trying to find the time to develop a dongle that would allow you to use a USB joystick for games such as Over-G fighters. I bought an MS sidewinder pro joystick some years back and the amount of games that support it is rather low which made me feel like it was a wasted purchase, not wanting it to be a complete waste it seems a good candidate as a test for my project. I don't see it being too difficult to do - a joystick with 8 buttons and a hat controller as well as throttle and rudder should have the amount of inputs required to do the job.It's funny because the Nintendo Wii seems to be the most wanted console of all from the amount of people I've spoken to about it or seen posting on forums and this is the console where new forms of input are the selling point of the console. I hope the Wii outsells the PS3 and the 360, (although I'm a major 360 fan, I bought one 3 months ago and love it to bits) I really hope Nintendo shows the corporate game development machine that innovation is a good thing.
#9
10/04/2006 (2:34 pm)
@Louis - you'd need two wires then, one for the mouse and one for the overall controller. I think this is a great idea and prototype. People mod their xboxes all the time, maybe you should create the thing first, and then try to sell it to MS versus trying to get permission to sell it yourself.
#10
I think that only Microsoft can say whether a wireless connection between the mouse and the rest of the controller is allowed. They may or may not call that a "wireless controller"
10/04/2006 (2:49 pm)
@Jonathon,I think that only Microsoft can say whether a wireless connection between the mouse and the rest of the controller is allowed. They may or may not call that a "wireless controller"
#11
You do not need MS's permission to make this. They use USB controllers, and do not control that standard.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
10/04/2006 (3:30 pm)
I hope you patented your idea. Normally, I am not a big fan of that, but this is idea should be patented. I would take it to Logitec or a peripheral company. They would have a lot more clout in getting somethign like this implemented. Next, you would have to get RTS software publishers to support the controller. It looks expensive.You do not need MS's permission to make this. They use USB controllers, and do not control that standard.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
#12
10/04/2006 (3:32 pm)
I guess my only question is why you need Microsoft's permission to make a compatible component. As long as you only used public domain records for the design of the controller input and outputs I don't see why you would need their permission to do anything. Or has our government become so paranoid about protecting it's big businesses that you can be sued for having a better idea now?
#13
Jeff, I tried to contact those companies, even with some patent documents filed, and they all claim "yea we're already working on something like that". I made a prototype that works on PC, but I need some extra engineering help to make it work on the consoles. Plus, MS requires that extra chip in each device so the 360 will recognize it as a valid device.
10/04/2006 (3:45 pm)
I need a firmware upgrade to make the mouse work with the xbox 360. Plug a USB mouse into your 360 and watch it go wonky. Jeff, I tried to contact those companies, even with some patent documents filed, and they all claim "yea we're already working on something like that". I made a prototype that works on PC, but I need some extra engineering help to make it work on the consoles. Plus, MS requires that extra chip in each device so the 360 will recognize it as a valid device.
#14
10/04/2006 (4:00 pm)
That's a neat idea, Peter. Best of luck with it.
#15
10/04/2006 (4:04 pm)
Yes, this sounds like an excellent idea. You might be able to move forward with it on PC first, which could be a stepping stone to your ultimate market (the consoles).
#16
10/04/2006 (5:50 pm)
I agree about starting with the PC market first. You might want to try teaming up with a game publisher if Logitech and those other companies are not interested. Bundling it with an RTS would help.
#17
Having a detachable mouse segment for a controller is still a really cool idea though, best of luck with it.
10/04/2006 (6:26 pm)
Please please please don't copy the PS2 controller design for the rest of the layout. Most modern games use the analogue as their primary input, so move the analogue to the primary position. The wonky inset Playstation analogues are an archaic design from an element that was tacked onto a controller never designed for them. Also I would think of a more creative button layout for the mouse side... little circular buttons along the diamond arrangement aren't going to work as well as mouse clickers. Maybe something like the GameCube's X/Y buttons slung towards the mouse side? And consider having the shoulder buttons wrap around the side a bit, or have some alternate buttons on the side of the mouse section, like the side buttons on a five button mouse, so you don't lose them when you go into mouse mode.Having a detachable mouse segment for a controller is still a really cool idea though, best of luck with it.
#18
www.bodielobus.com/
looks like they have something now.
10/04/2006 (8:03 pm)
I had thought about something like this a couple years ago. I wanted to make a trackball controller for making fps games better. Good luck with this. Here is a company that I was watching a couple years ago when they were developing a 'new type' of controller:www.bodielobus.com/
looks like they have something now.
#19
10/04/2006 (10:00 pm)
I added in the links as they appear on my blog, It helps to clarify some of the facts. It also cites some places where I got my information.
#20
10/05/2006 (9:21 pm)
While I applaud what you're doing, I should point out that the so-called "wireless" product you linked to isn't wireless at all: the 360 uses IR for remote control, but a different (and no doubt proprietary) protocol for wireless controllers. I dunno if they're doing it for quality control purposes or because they want the whole wireless market to themselves, but it'll be interesting to see what Sony do.
Torque Owner Ian Roach
Not having played the wii yet, i have a feeling have 2 seperate parts of the controller in each hand would be awkward, especially if using thumbsticks on both, it just wouldnt seem like it would sit comfortably in the hands.
But i would love to hear more about how you see it working becuase perhaps im just looking at it all wrong.