It's starting to look like a game
by Geom · 09/13/2006 (8:02 pm) · 14 comments
Orcs vs. Martians is finally starting to feel like a real game. Not yet a game that anyone would want to buy :) But hey, at least it feels like a game.
OvM now recognizes when somebody has won. It shows scores and statistics at the end of the game. The AI is starting to get feisty and less stupid...and more irritating, when it comes and harasses me while I'm trying to test something. lol. Fog of war is also mostly-working now.
Some screenshots:
Fog of war turned out to be pretty hard to do, and my implementation still has some issues. In the 3D view, all I do for FOW is to turn the terrain black when you're not supposed to see it. However, that doesn't hide water. It also still allows you to kind of see hills and ridgelines you're not supposed to see, if they're silhouetted against water or against the sky.
Also, for Orcs vs. Martians, FOW causes an aesthetic problem in my opinion. OvM is supposed to be a light-hearted game, and all that black terrain looks way too ominous. Slightly sinister. It'd be interesting to try fixing that by coloring the terrain something other than black. Like maybe paint it with a green terrain texture, that has embedded question mark icons or something. Just something more friendly looking. I've never seen another game do that, so this sounds like a job for... (drumroll please...) an indie game.
I've also added "melee" units to the game, in addition to the ranged units that were already there. Orcs get axemen, Martians get battle-bots, and humans get swordsmen.
Here's the end-of-game results screen. It's not too pretty yet, but I figure it's good enough for an alpha release (which is hopefully not too far off). The screen shows results both by player and by team, which I think is pretty cool. I plan to colorize it to make it easier to see each individual player's contributions to his team's score.
I also have a working Windows installer/uninstaller! OvM shows up in Windows Add Remove Programs and everything.
I used NSIS to create the installer, but I'm not too enamored with it; I might end up going with some other installer creation tool.
I've also started thinking more about the races and game balancing. Right now the three races are Orcs, Martians, and Humans. I've been trying to think of a way to balance such different races in a semi-realistic way (this being such a realistic game and all :P). What I've come up with of so far is:
Martians are the most powerful race. They're the only high-tech race, so their weapons far exceed anything the others have. To keep them from being too powerful, the storyline could be that they've crash-landed in Middle-Earth. So although they have hand guns and robots, they don't have flying saucers or artillery or anything like that. Also it would make sense to give them the fewest hit points, since they're little dudes. And maybe the slowest on foot, too.
The Martians' main strategy will be to defeat their enemies from a distance, with superior weapon range and firepower. They'll do best in wide-open areas, where they can use ranged weapons to maximum advantage.
Orcs are the 2nd-most powerful race, owing to lots of hit points and pretty good speed. Their melee units (axemen) will have powerful attacks, but their ranged (crossbow) units will be comparitively lame.
Orcs' main strategy will be to close in on their enemies quickly so they can use their melee units. They'll do best fighting in hilly terrain, since it minimizes the advantage of long-range weapons. Maybe they can also use their speed to spread over the map quickly, claiming the best map spots.
Then there's the humans. They've got neither good hit points nor good weapons. Poor blighters :)
I'm thinking of giving humans the best technology tree, which will eventually allow them to upgrade their weapons. That is, if they survive long enough. To help them survive, I could give them the strongest buildings. That kind of makes sense...Orcs aren't exactly known for building well, and the Martians have crash-landed, so they don't have much in the way of construction tools.
I'm not sure how far I'll let humans upgrade. I was thinking it would really be funny to see Middle-Earth humans attacking the Orc Horde with gatling guns :) Or with a thermonuclear device :). Got an Orc problem? No worries... BOOOOOM! lol. Not sure how far I want to go down that path, but for this game I think the more humorous, the better. Assuming, the humor doesn't horribly wreck game balancing, or drive up development time too much.
Another crazy idea I had was, instead of making the 3rd race be the Humans, make them be the Amish. That would be way funny. I can just see guys with little Menonite-style beards running around the game, beating Martians over the head with ploughs or something. Unfortunately, I don't think it's such a good idea, I can too easily see it coming across as offensive to some people. I don't mean it that way of course, I've got nothing against the Amish, I'm just looking for humorous angles. Anyway, how would Amish fight effectively against Orcs and Martians?? That'd be a problem. Maybe it'd make a good Easter egg though...
That's about where the game is now. On with the development. I can hardly wait to get to where I'm ready to try out some of the content packs that are available.
On a totally different subject, AT&T is bunch of price gouging thugs. There, I feel better.
OvM now recognizes when somebody has won. It shows scores and statistics at the end of the game. The AI is starting to get feisty and less stupid...and more irritating, when it comes and harasses me while I'm trying to test something. lol. Fog of war is also mostly-working now.
Some screenshots:
Fog of war turned out to be pretty hard to do, and my implementation still has some issues. In the 3D view, all I do for FOW is to turn the terrain black when you're not supposed to see it. However, that doesn't hide water. It also still allows you to kind of see hills and ridgelines you're not supposed to see, if they're silhouetted against water or against the sky.
Also, for Orcs vs. Martians, FOW causes an aesthetic problem in my opinion. OvM is supposed to be a light-hearted game, and all that black terrain looks way too ominous. Slightly sinister. It'd be interesting to try fixing that by coloring the terrain something other than black. Like maybe paint it with a green terrain texture, that has embedded question mark icons or something. Just something more friendly looking. I've never seen another game do that, so this sounds like a job for... (drumroll please...) an indie game.
I've also added "melee" units to the game, in addition to the ranged units that were already there. Orcs get axemen, Martians get battle-bots, and humans get swordsmen.
Here's the end-of-game results screen. It's not too pretty yet, but I figure it's good enough for an alpha release (which is hopefully not too far off). The screen shows results both by player and by team, which I think is pretty cool. I plan to colorize it to make it easier to see each individual player's contributions to his team's score.
I also have a working Windows installer/uninstaller! OvM shows up in Windows Add Remove Programs and everything.
I used NSIS to create the installer, but I'm not too enamored with it; I might end up going with some other installer creation tool.
I've also started thinking more about the races and game balancing. Right now the three races are Orcs, Martians, and Humans. I've been trying to think of a way to balance such different races in a semi-realistic way (this being such a realistic game and all :P). What I've come up with of so far is:
Martians are the most powerful race. They're the only high-tech race, so their weapons far exceed anything the others have. To keep them from being too powerful, the storyline could be that they've crash-landed in Middle-Earth. So although they have hand guns and robots, they don't have flying saucers or artillery or anything like that. Also it would make sense to give them the fewest hit points, since they're little dudes. And maybe the slowest on foot, too.
The Martians' main strategy will be to defeat their enemies from a distance, with superior weapon range and firepower. They'll do best in wide-open areas, where they can use ranged weapons to maximum advantage.
Orcs are the 2nd-most powerful race, owing to lots of hit points and pretty good speed. Their melee units (axemen) will have powerful attacks, but their ranged (crossbow) units will be comparitively lame.
Orcs' main strategy will be to close in on their enemies quickly so they can use their melee units. They'll do best fighting in hilly terrain, since it minimizes the advantage of long-range weapons. Maybe they can also use their speed to spread over the map quickly, claiming the best map spots.
Then there's the humans. They've got neither good hit points nor good weapons. Poor blighters :)
I'm thinking of giving humans the best technology tree, which will eventually allow them to upgrade their weapons. That is, if they survive long enough. To help them survive, I could give them the strongest buildings. That kind of makes sense...Orcs aren't exactly known for building well, and the Martians have crash-landed, so they don't have much in the way of construction tools.
I'm not sure how far I'll let humans upgrade. I was thinking it would really be funny to see Middle-Earth humans attacking the Orc Horde with gatling guns :) Or with a thermonuclear device :). Got an Orc problem? No worries... BOOOOOM! lol. Not sure how far I want to go down that path, but for this game I think the more humorous, the better. Assuming, the humor doesn't horribly wreck game balancing, or drive up development time too much.
Another crazy idea I had was, instead of making the 3rd race be the Humans, make them be the Amish. That would be way funny. I can just see guys with little Menonite-style beards running around the game, beating Martians over the head with ploughs or something. Unfortunately, I don't think it's such a good idea, I can too easily see it coming across as offensive to some people. I don't mean it that way of course, I've got nothing against the Amish, I'm just looking for humorous angles. Anyway, how would Amish fight effectively against Orcs and Martians?? That'd be a problem. Maybe it'd make a good Easter egg though...
That's about where the game is now. On with the development. I can hardly wait to get to where I'm ready to try out some of the content packs that are available.
On a totally different subject, AT&T is bunch of price gouging thugs. There, I feel better.
About the author
My email address is my GG handle, at redbrickgames.com.
Recent Blogs
• Orcs vs. Martians - updated video• Orcs vs. Martians November update
• Milestone!
• The Burninating
• Victory flags
#2
*Edit to remove image links now that the post is fixed.
09/13/2006 (8:10 pm)
Looking pretty nice!*Edit to remove image links now that the post is fixed.
#4
Looking great Geom, Thats starting to look like a solid RTS.
I understand the FOW issue, I have worked on a number of RTS games and one of the approaches we tried was a "shadowing" of the terrain, to provide a visual indication of the explored vs non explored area.
This allowed us to design strategic points of interest into the environment which would compel the player to explore them, but not see certain things until they did so, like enemy structures, resources, etc.
Just make it shadowed enough to make it obvious that its not natural lighting, and the player will learn the convention as soon as they start moving and see the shadow clear.
09/13/2006 (8:28 pm)
right..thats what I meant :O)Looking great Geom, Thats starting to look like a solid RTS.
I understand the FOW issue, I have worked on a number of RTS games and one of the approaches we tried was a "shadowing" of the terrain, to provide a visual indication of the explored vs non explored area.
This allowed us to design strategic points of interest into the environment which would compel the player to explore them, but not see certain things until they did so, like enemy structures, resources, etc.
Just make it shadowed enough to make it obvious that its not natural lighting, and the player will learn the convention as soon as they start moving and see the shadow clear.
#5
I would be careful when balancing any player side to be an intentional slow starter--most RTS players are going to be looking for "the rush" tactic, and without some way to defeat an opponent rush, no one will ever play a slowly tech-ing side...they'll always be slaughtered when the perfect rush gets figured out.
That's a disease in any RTS from WC all the way through all of MS's RTS's (can't remember their names off the top of my head, but the Franks were one of the uber rushers!), and it's a difficult balancing challenge.
09/13/2006 (11:05 pm)
Great to see someone working hard on an RTS--always been my favorite kind of game!I would be careful when balancing any player side to be an intentional slow starter--most RTS players are going to be looking for "the rush" tactic, and without some way to defeat an opponent rush, no one will ever play a slowly tech-ing side...they'll always be slaughtered when the perfect rush gets figured out.
That's a disease in any RTS from WC all the way through all of MS's RTS's (can't remember their names off the top of my head, but the Franks were one of the uber rushers!), and it's a difficult balancing challenge.
#6
09/13/2006 (11:12 pm)
Wow. Even as simple as it is right now, it really is starting to look like a game. Which is more than i can say for any of my projects.
#7
There was a thing called the "pre build phase' in Metal Fatigue (an RTS I worked on), it pretty much blunted the effect of a rush, by allowing for a pre set or user defined period at the beginning of a level to build up with a predetermined amount of starting resources, prior to any movement outside of a limited controlled zone around the starting location.
09/13/2006 (11:34 pm)
Stephen is dead right about the opening rush.There was a thing called the "pre build phase' in Metal Fatigue (an RTS I worked on), it pretty much blunted the effect of a rush, by allowing for a pre set or user defined period at the beginning of a level to build up with a predetermined amount of starting resources, prior to any movement outside of a limited controlled zone around the starting location.
#8
09/14/2006 (11:25 am)
Cool! It's got the indie feel - which makes me want to play it!
#9
Thx, it has been a fun game to work on. RTSs are prolly my favorite too, although maybe they tie with Civ-type games. Though when I feel too tired to think, nothing beats a good FPS.
I guess hadn't really thought about rushing yet. The base buildings can shoot so I suppose that would help, but it's probably not a strong enough deterrent. I guess this will need playtesting and some development iterations to get right.
I thought the Age of Empire games had a clever solution the way you could garrison workers in the town center. It gave the town center extra firepower, plus it protected the workers from being slaughtered since they were off the map while the rush was on.
@Andrew
Thanks. Of course now that it's playable the danger is I'll start spending time playing it, instead of working on it :) That's been a problem for me in the past. What kind of game are you working on?
@Todd
thx, well, hopefully it'll look better when I start paying attention to the art. I saw some of the tile-able walls you have in your FPS pack and am wanting to try those out. That pre build idea sounds intriguing. If you don't mind telling, I'd be really curious as to how much time your team spent on playtesting for balance, etc., before releasing those RTSs you worked on.
@Tom
Awesome! Thx, I'm definitely going for the indie feel.
09/14/2006 (2:08 pm)
@StephenThx, it has been a fun game to work on. RTSs are prolly my favorite too, although maybe they tie with Civ-type games. Though when I feel too tired to think, nothing beats a good FPS.
I guess hadn't really thought about rushing yet. The base buildings can shoot so I suppose that would help, but it's probably not a strong enough deterrent. I guess this will need playtesting and some development iterations to get right.
I thought the Age of Empire games had a clever solution the way you could garrison workers in the town center. It gave the town center extra firepower, plus it protected the workers from being slaughtered since they were off the map while the rush was on.
@Andrew
Thanks. Of course now that it's playable the danger is I'll start spending time playing it, instead of working on it :) That's been a problem for me in the past. What kind of game are you working on?
@Todd
thx, well, hopefully it'll look better when I start paying attention to the art. I saw some of the tile-able walls you have in your FPS pack and am wanting to try those out. That pre build idea sounds intriguing. If you don't mind telling, I'd be really curious as to how much time your team spent on playtesting for balance, etc., before releasing those RTSs you worked on.
@Tom
Awesome! Thx, I'm definitely going for the indie feel.
#10
I honestly don't recall how long we tested Metal Fatigue. We played the hell out of it all through development (once it was functional enough), and the publisher also had in house testers and used beta testing/ testing service pretty extensively.
On the other hand I worked on some "budget titles" that were RTS game which looked better than Metal Fatigue, but received next to zero play testing....sadly.
Regarding the walls in my pack, those are not the sort of walls you need for tileable walls as they would be used in an RTS. Let me know when you get to a point where you will need that sort of thing, and the specifications for them, and I will be happy to make some functional ones for you.
09/14/2006 (3:42 pm)
Geom,I honestly don't recall how long we tested Metal Fatigue. We played the hell out of it all through development (once it was functional enough), and the publisher also had in house testers and used beta testing/ testing service pretty extensively.
On the other hand I worked on some "budget titles" that were RTS game which looked better than Metal Fatigue, but received next to zero play testing....sadly.
Regarding the walls in my pack, those are not the sort of walls you need for tileable walls as they would be used in an RTS. Let me know when you get to a point where you will need that sort of thing, and the specifications for them, and I will be happy to make some functional ones for you.
#11
Oh wait... I see that the walls you said were tileable, were the seawalls, not these walls. Missed that.
I do kind of like these walls' irregular look, they look like something Orcs might build. I might have different wall shapes for the different races, it seems like an easy way to add a little character to the game.
Hey cool, I see Metal Fatigue was published by Psygnosis. I've never actually played anything Psygnosis put out, but I remember their games got stellar reviews back in the day (like the Amiga days).
09/14/2006 (7:27 pm)
Thanks for the offer. But why won't the FPS pack ones work? I thought these looked pretty promising: Oh wait... I see that the walls you said were tileable, were the seawalls, not these walls. Missed that.
I do kind of like these walls' irregular look, they look like something Orcs might build. I might have different wall shapes for the different races, it seems like an easy way to add a little character to the game.
Hey cool, I see Metal Fatigue was published by Psygnosis. I've never actually played anything Psygnosis put out, but I remember their games got stellar reviews back in the day (like the Amiga days).
#12
I had not thought about it, but I suppose you could use those walls for tileable RTS walls. let me know if you need modification to make them tile the way you need.
And please post some screens when you get it working.
09/14/2006 (8:58 pm)
...Amiga days? .....ok, so Metal Fatigue was actually the first 3d RTS, although it didn't ship in time and got beat to the punch by another game, but it wasn't the Amiga days. :O)I had not thought about it, but I suppose you could use those walls for tileable RTS walls. let me know if you need modification to make them tile the way you need.
And please post some screens when you get it working.
#13
09/14/2006 (11:44 pm)
Psygnosis' Amiga releases always looked fantastic at the time. If you wanted to impress someone with your Amiga those were the games to put on. Though they often didn't have great gameplay, there were a few exceptions such as Armourgeddon, etc but it was mostly all about the eye candy.
#14
But Psygnosis was hands down the best game dev experience I have ever had. Steve Patternson was the Producer and he was a great guy who really knew how to do his job.
09/15/2006 (12:03 am)
Never owned an Amiga sad to say.But Psygnosis was hands down the best game dev experience I have ever had. Steve Patternson was the Producer and he was a great guy who really knew how to do his job.
Torque 3D Owner Todd Pickens