Gamespy XNA Discussion
by Unk · 08/23/2006 (8:22 am) · 9 comments
From Yesterday's Gamespy Newsletter:
"Microsoft XNA: The Debate Begins
Last week Microsoft Announced a Powerful New Game Toolkit called XNA Game Studio Express that would allow game developers to create PC and Xbox 360 games with relative ease. The new software is meant to encourage the "homebrew" game industry, encouraging more and more people to enter the development community. (A few weeks ago we reported on a talent shortage in the gaming space.) It might also act as a breeding ground for new game experiments.
In today's column, our news editor Li argues that this won't have a big impact on the industry. His reasoning is thus: there have always been inexpensive tools in the PC gaming community, but the vast majority of content created is pretty bad, so the indie scene remains small. XNA will allow people to develop console games just as easily, but the situation won't be any different.
I disagree, and here's why: the key difference is that new markets are opening, specifically via Xbox Live Arcade. The indie PC gaming market, with rare exceptions, was never a good place to earn money. As a consumer, buying an indie PC game meant giving your credit card information to a new, strange company for every title you bought. Most people don't give away their credit information for a single $4.99 game. But on the Xbox Live it's a different market: there are lots of subscribers, people feel safe, and it's easy to make micropayments because it's all going through one site. Xbox Live Arcade provides a way for small developers to make money, and making money attracts talent who make better indie games. I, for one, am excited to see a market for inexpensive independently-developed games opening up!
Of course, for me to be right, it's going to require a clear pathway for the really good independent games to make the leap over to Xbox Live Arcade. And right now Microsoft hasn't made it clear if it'll be possible for small teams using XNA to tap into that market. Regardless of how things turn out, it's an exciting time."
It is always fun to see Fargo fighting for use Indies. =)
BTW: They use a pic of TGB in the most recent article but don't quote it as being part of XNA...
-Unk
"Microsoft XNA: The Debate Begins
Last week Microsoft Announced a Powerful New Game Toolkit called XNA Game Studio Express that would allow game developers to create PC and Xbox 360 games with relative ease. The new software is meant to encourage the "homebrew" game industry, encouraging more and more people to enter the development community. (A few weeks ago we reported on a talent shortage in the gaming space.) It might also act as a breeding ground for new game experiments.
In today's column, our news editor Li argues that this won't have a big impact on the industry. His reasoning is thus: there have always been inexpensive tools in the PC gaming community, but the vast majority of content created is pretty bad, so the indie scene remains small. XNA will allow people to develop console games just as easily, but the situation won't be any different.
I disagree, and here's why: the key difference is that new markets are opening, specifically via Xbox Live Arcade. The indie PC gaming market, with rare exceptions, was never a good place to earn money. As a consumer, buying an indie PC game meant giving your credit card information to a new, strange company for every title you bought. Most people don't give away their credit information for a single $4.99 game. But on the Xbox Live it's a different market: there are lots of subscribers, people feel safe, and it's easy to make micropayments because it's all going through one site. Xbox Live Arcade provides a way for small developers to make money, and making money attracts talent who make better indie games. I, for one, am excited to see a market for inexpensive independently-developed games opening up!
Of course, for me to be right, it's going to require a clear pathway for the really good independent games to make the leap over to Xbox Live Arcade. And right now Microsoft hasn't made it clear if it'll be possible for small teams using XNA to tap into that market. Regardless of how things turn out, it's an exciting time."
It is always fun to see Fargo fighting for use Indies. =)
BTW: They use a pic of TGB in the most recent article but don't quote it as being part of XNA...
-Unk
#2
08/23/2006 (9:11 am)
Fargo is a really good guy and a lot of fun to hang out with. 
#3
Indies do not process the credit card billing - credited banking companies do. And XBox Live is not better...
I wouldn't handle my credit card to Microsoft, because I dont trust MS code stability for online banking ;)
Too bad I cannot leave a comment for that article there...
08/23/2006 (9:36 am)
I dont agree with Fargo's point "buying an indie PC game meant giving your credit card information to a new, strange company for every title you bought"...Indies do not process the credit card billing - credited banking companies do. And XBox Live is not better...
I wouldn't handle my credit card to Microsoft, because I dont trust MS code stability for online banking ;)
Too bad I cannot leave a comment for that article there...
#4
Structurally, if there is anything like a "top ten" list, your screwed, because inevitably that top 10 will get taken by EA trying to buy the market out.
What we needed, I feel, is this fabled "long tail". Essentially a search-based category-based system where games are placed on some kind of user rank system.
Its not just a matter of being on the platform (maybe more likely, but you wont get a production slot anytime soon) but being on the platform AND available to users. Nobody will purchase what they dont know about after all.
08/23/2006 (10:29 am)
I think that he's right, in that many more people would pay MS than pay joeshmoeindie. But the question of "if indies can get onto XBLA" is very much an issue. Not only that, but IF indies get on XBLA, is XBLA going to change to handle the influx of new titles? Structurally, if there is anything like a "top ten" list, your screwed, because inevitably that top 10 will get taken by EA trying to buy the market out.
What we needed, I feel, is this fabled "long tail". Essentially a search-based category-based system where games are placed on some kind of user rank system.
Its not just a matter of being on the platform (maybe more likely, but you wont get a production slot anytime soon) but being on the platform AND available to users. Nobody will purchase what they dont know about after all.
#5
08/23/2006 (11:50 am)
The fact is, no one really knows whats going to happen. Microsoft certianly hasn't opened up the XBLA distribution channel to anyone, just the xbox platform. In order to share a game you have to share it's code and assets with someone else who as the GSE package. I imangine they might make a seperate youtube like channel that people can browse and check out, and where microsoft may snipe good games for XBLA release. Still, i'm cautiously optimistic.
#6
A game like NWN would have died years ago if it wasnt for all the mods. The mod I worked on still boasts a regular play crowd after 4+ years and will be porting most of the world to NWN2 when its released. The game is mod/community driven. I dont know of a single person that has played the original campaigns for that title and i've played the game for years online.
Sure you go to a site like game tunnel and its like looking for the diamond in the rough sometimes but the reviews break the games down pretty good and even ifs it the same old top down shooter with new gfx its still a fun jam.
The rankings system is prone to getting hammered by the big guys getting in the channel but in an indie market at least we can compete imo. With better tools and content the measure of good games will be creativity and ideas. Production values for the big guys are always going to be top notch but I cant see EA hammering a space where they might get aced out by the next 4 man dream team.
For me as a dev im just excited to have more tools. I'll just use the TGB normal mapping example with tankbuster. I would love to have access to shaders in TGB. While It can be said why not just write your own the time commitment is just to much. My focus is more on the art side since I make a living doing architectural renders. Sure I could study up and research or hire someone but its way easier and cheaper to buy a plugin or product.
We are also on the forefront of a wav of new devs. Schools are popping up all over the place. When i started school there was only 1 in the midwest now there are 4 in Minneapolis alone.
anyways just dropping a tired 2 cents in the bucket before I dig into some work.
- J
08/23/2006 (2:13 pm)
I think this fellas vision is a bit to narrow. A game like NWN would have died years ago if it wasnt for all the mods. The mod I worked on still boasts a regular play crowd after 4+ years and will be porting most of the world to NWN2 when its released. The game is mod/community driven. I dont know of a single person that has played the original campaigns for that title and i've played the game for years online.
Sure you go to a site like game tunnel and its like looking for the diamond in the rough sometimes but the reviews break the games down pretty good and even ifs it the same old top down shooter with new gfx its still a fun jam.
The rankings system is prone to getting hammered by the big guys getting in the channel but in an indie market at least we can compete imo. With better tools and content the measure of good games will be creativity and ideas. Production values for the big guys are always going to be top notch but I cant see EA hammering a space where they might get aced out by the next 4 man dream team.
For me as a dev im just excited to have more tools. I'll just use the TGB normal mapping example with tankbuster. I would love to have access to shaders in TGB. While It can be said why not just write your own the time commitment is just to much. My focus is more on the art side since I make a living doing architectural renders. Sure I could study up and research or hire someone but its way easier and cheaper to buy a plugin or product.
We are also on the forefront of a wav of new devs. Schools are popping up all over the place. When i started school there was only 1 in the midwest now there are 4 in Minneapolis alone.
anyways just dropping a tired 2 cents in the bucket before I dig into some work.
- J
#7
(Screenshot captions).
08/23/2006 (4:42 pm)
Can the IGN network screw up anymore articles about GG this year? Man, those guys really hit my nerves.(Screenshot captions).
#8
08/23/2006 (5:01 pm)
I see what you mean...Quote:Marble Blast Ultra is a game from GarageGames that was developed using XNA Game Studio Express.
Quote:Working in XNA Game Studio Express can be as easy as drag and drop.(this was under a pic of TGB)
#9
08/24/2006 (4:41 pm)
I agree with the article.
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