Plan for Jeff Tunnell
by Jeff Tunnell · 03/29/2005 (9:48 pm) · 52 comments
www.gamespot.com//pc/action/tribesvengeance/news_6121146.html
"According to NPD, Vengence has sold just over 43,000 units through February"
Let's see...
Income:
43,000 units. Retail price: $19.99. Wholesale price: $12.00. = $516,000.
Costs:
Unreal Engine License + 2 years support: $950,000.
(let's say they got a bulk deal), so knock it down to $500,000.
Development Fees: $3,000,000 est.
Marketing Costs: $250,000 est.
Inventory: 200,000 units at $2/unit: $400,000
TOTAL COSTS: $4,150,000
TOTAL INCOME: 516,000
TOTAL PROFIT (LOSS): ($3,634,400)
Note: In case you don't know what () means, accounts use it as a sign of LOSS.
I think the above numbers are probably very conservative (especially the marketing costs). The actual loss is probably more like $4MM or 5MM.
Last night I was in the local EB World store. For some reason, I had never looked at the TV box. I finally found one on the very bottom, totally trashed, with a bunch of mark down stickers and a final price of $17.99!
Oh man. That box! It is an absolute disaster. I honestly could not believe how bad it was. They took the awesome art look of Tribes and turned it into something that looked like fan art from a 13 year old.
It just goes to show that you cannot make games by the recipe, i.e. good developers, Unreal Engine, lots of budget and development time, proven franchise, etc. Even with the right ingredients, it still takes somebody or a group of people to make the magic.
Anyway, that is probably enough gloating. Please do not take this as a slam against the developers of TV, most of this was out of their control.
"According to NPD, Vengence has sold just over 43,000 units through February"
Let's see...
Income:
43,000 units. Retail price: $19.99. Wholesale price: $12.00. = $516,000.
Costs:
Unreal Engine License + 2 years support: $950,000.
(let's say they got a bulk deal), so knock it down to $500,000.
Development Fees: $3,000,000 est.
Marketing Costs: $250,000 est.
Inventory: 200,000 units at $2/unit: $400,000
TOTAL COSTS: $4,150,000
TOTAL INCOME: 516,000
TOTAL PROFIT (LOSS): ($3,634,400)
Note: In case you don't know what () means, accounts use it as a sign of LOSS.
I think the above numbers are probably very conservative (especially the marketing costs). The actual loss is probably more like $4MM or 5MM.
Last night I was in the local EB World store. For some reason, I had never looked at the TV box. I finally found one on the very bottom, totally trashed, with a bunch of mark down stickers and a final price of $17.99!
Oh man. That box! It is an absolute disaster. I honestly could not believe how bad it was. They took the awesome art look of Tribes and turned it into something that looked like fan art from a 13 year old.
It just goes to show that you cannot make games by the recipe, i.e. good developers, Unreal Engine, lots of budget and development time, proven franchise, etc. Even with the right ingredients, it still takes somebody or a group of people to make the magic.
Anyway, that is probably enough gloating. Please do not take this as a slam against the developers of TV, most of this was out of their control.
About the author
#43
Just curious, did Ken Cron have anything to do with that?
04/02/2005 (11:49 am)
"Wish Vivendi had figured that out before they killed Dynamix."Just curious, did Ken Cron have anything to do with that?
#44
It's a classic model, used in many industries. HP's been operating that way for years, and look where it's gotten them.
04/05/2005 (8:26 pm)
Quote:
The model that the industry is using now is that a couple of hits carry all the other games that lose money.
It's a classic model, used in many industries. HP's been operating that way for years, and look where it's gotten them.
#45
God I hope thats sarcasim
04/09/2005 (12:36 am)
Quote:HP's been operating that way for years, and look where it's gotten them.
God I hope thats sarcasim
#46
Their HP-UX business segment never operated in the black, and all the other businesses paid the light bills for the HP-UX divisions for decades.
Since the late 1980s, printers have been their "hit game" that carried all the other "games." HP used printer profits to finance all their other businesses. When HP split off their no-longer-profitable non-computer divisions and acquired Compaq, printers still kept the rest of the businesses afloat, even though both PC and HP-UX businesses were losing both money and market share.
And HP have been unable or unwilling to capitalize on the small-market successes that they have had, like calculators and optical mice, for two examples.
I could go on, but this is Jeff's .plan, not alt.why.hp.keeps.getting.worse.
04/09/2005 (4:14 pm)
Nope. I used to work for HP. Their HP-UX business segment never operated in the black, and all the other businesses paid the light bills for the HP-UX divisions for decades.
Since the late 1980s, printers have been their "hit game" that carried all the other "games." HP used printer profits to finance all their other businesses. When HP split off their no-longer-profitable non-computer divisions and acquired Compaq, printers still kept the rest of the businesses afloat, even though both PC and HP-UX businesses were losing both money and market share.
And HP have been unable or unwilling to capitalize on the small-market successes that they have had, like calculators and optical mice, for two examples.
I could go on, but this is Jeff's .plan, not alt.why.hp.keeps.getting.worse.
#47
Course, that doesn't begin to offset the rise in development and production costs, so it's not entirely relevant.
04/12/2005 (7:56 pm)
While I more or less agree with the concept, it should be noted that I very much doubt many people purchase an Unreal license with the idea of making all their money back on a single game these days. Remember, the license goes to the studio - not to the product, so that's money that they can recoup with later titles. Irrational Games also released SWAT 4 just recently, which also used the Unreal engine, and I would imagine they'll continue using it for later titles.Course, that doesn't begin to offset the rise in development and production costs, so it's not entirely relevant.
#48
The word "product" is NOT plural and so therefore makes me believe that for every game that ships with the unreal engine requires an individual license.
04/13/2005 (4:54 am)
Am I reading the unreal license wrong, cause it looks like the $750,000 cost is for one product on the PC (plus $100,000 for each additional platform)Quote:A non-refundable, non-recoupable license fee paid on execution of agreement: US $750,000 for one of the available platforms, plus US $100,000 for each additional platform. No royalty is due on any revenue from the product.
The word "product" is NOT plural and so therefore makes me believe that for every game that ships with the unreal engine requires an individual license.
#49
PS: Couter Strike was developed by 2 programmers and 4 artists, 1 full year of beta testing and they got a Hit. I dont think thet they spend more than 500k $.
Games based on multipayer need more time for beta. Who knows how long was beta for T:Vengeance?
04/13/2005 (8:02 am)
When developers buying Unreal engine license, they get not only source of engine, they get "brend" and this can gain more potential customers. PS: Couter Strike was developed by 2 programmers and 4 artists, 1 full year of beta testing and they got a Hit. I dont think thet they spend more than 500k $.
Games based on multipayer need more time for beta. Who knows how long was beta for T:Vengeance?
#50
04/13/2005 (7:36 pm)
Counter Strike was a mod... guess who pocketed most of the profits.... and the answer isn't the Counter Strike guys... and if your answer was Valve... you are correct.
#51
04/27/2005 (12:22 am)
Maybe a better solution for the TV:Developers would have been to threaten to quit and not finish the game. Then blackmail them (sierra) for more money and rights to do something else with the engine after they were done.
#52
-Matt
PS. I think it would be cool to at least have one game here with some FMV's and some prerendered CG elements. My game is going to have them!
05/17/2005 (10:24 pm)
Wow! Just goes to show that even with some of the best technology available doesn't mean the game is good. I haven't played the new Tribes, but I think that the old Tribes games are the best. Just goes to show that an indie game with a smaller budget and a small team can still pull off a job better that some of these commercial games available. Like Red Ninja for instance. That game was horrible. It handled like a 5 year old who just to drink 5 red bulls. Oh yeah! And Counter Strike. That game had a very small team like listed above, but it was really fun! Most of these new games out there haven't been very good. There are too many FPSes that handle horribly. There are also way too many crappy RPGs out there that are total rip-offs of Final Fantasy. Weird games can also be fun though. Katamari Damacy was one of the weirdest games where you really wonder, what were those developers smoking?!? But, that game was also one of the best games I've ever played. I guess I was wrong about Garage Games. I think it's safe to say that all of the games out here are fairly good and are fun.-Matt
PS. I think it would be cool to at least have one game here with some FMV's and some prerendered CG elements. My game is going to have them!
Torque Owner Gonzo T. Clown
They didn't kill Dynamix. They just forced it to assume a new identity. I hear you can find it lurking around here.