Plan for Josh Williams
by Josh Williams · 02/22/2005 (1:21 pm) · 111 comments
Okay, time to prime the pump here some more. :) Melv and I couldn't resist posting some screens of the T2D demos we've been working on. Check out the pics below!
These demos are just simple, simple little examples of what Torque 2D can do. "Demo in a day" is a good way to describe 'em. None of them are anywhere near being games, but they look great, thanks to some extremely talented artists: Craig Fortune, Nauris Krauze, and Matt Mitman. These guys are incredible. For your viewing pleasure, may I present screens from the Torque 2D demos!
Simple "grav gun" demo:
Every engine today is trying to show off their physics, with grav guns and pachinko machines, and blah blah. Grav guns are easy, as our little hero Flegg demonstrates in this demo. And check out those particle effects! Melv does amazing things w/ T2D's particle system, but I bet it won't be long after release before someone out there is even better with it than he is. The great looking art you see here was provided by Craig Fortune and Nauris Krauze, of De-railed. These guys amaze me.
Simple pool demo:
This is a little pool "game" (not quite a full game, but you can knock balls around). Art by Matt Mitman, thanks *tons* Matt! My real-life pool game has improved by about 10x since we started working on this thing. And, I have to be honest, T2D has probably been delayed a little, due to time lost playing this thing. ;)
Simple undersea scene:
Next, a little undersea screen-saver type demo. This screenshot doesn't really do it justice. Melv created some *fantastic* dynamic lighting effects for this thing. Melv's friend Craig Ball helped out with this demo, and the great art was produced by Craig Fortune and Nauris Krauze of the De-railed team, with a little help from Jeff Gran, a talented intern here in the office. Thanks guys!
Checkers!
The best-looking checkers game ever created? ;) If so, it's thanks to Nauris and Craig once again! These guys rock. Pat Wilson did most of the coding for this game, thanks Pat! This demo is still being worked on, it'll have some cool features that aren't displayed in this pic yet.
Side-scrolling shooter:
None of these demos have much gameplay at all, they're really just meant to show off a little bit of what Torque 2D can do. But Melv has been cranking away on this Mars attack shooter, and it's actually pretty fun to play. I guess earlier today Melv's whole office had a big high score competition for this one. You get power-ups like triple-shot, shields, and side-kick ships, and your goal is to destroy the swarms of enemies that fly your way. This demo has been totally re-coded since IGC, but it was originally written in < 9 hours by Pat, who it should be clear to everyone by now, rocks. Nate Feyma and Alex Swanson created this great art, thanks guys!
So there you have it. :) T2D is just around the corner! None of these demos took more than a dozen hours or so of coding, so T2D really lets you focus on game design and art. I can't wait to see what everyone does with this thing! Let's launch this puppy!!
And once again, many, many, many thanks and congratulations to Melv for all his hard work on T2D. Melv, it has been an utter pleasure working with you. With the help of the awesome community around here, I'm sure this thing is going to be worth all of the hard work we've put it on it. It's gonna feel great to see all the work put to use in helping people make cool new games!
For technical info on T2D, see my ridiculously long informal tech overview .plan: T2D core classes, and T2D core systems. Or.. just pick T2D up in a few days, and see for yourself!
These demos are just simple, simple little examples of what Torque 2D can do. "Demo in a day" is a good way to describe 'em. None of them are anywhere near being games, but they look great, thanks to some extremely talented artists: Craig Fortune, Nauris Krauze, and Matt Mitman. These guys are incredible. For your viewing pleasure, may I present screens from the Torque 2D demos!
Simple "grav gun" demo:
Every engine today is trying to show off their physics, with grav guns and pachinko machines, and blah blah. Grav guns are easy, as our little hero Flegg demonstrates in this demo. And check out those particle effects! Melv does amazing things w/ T2D's particle system, but I bet it won't be long after release before someone out there is even better with it than he is. The great looking art you see here was provided by Craig Fortune and Nauris Krauze, of De-railed. These guys amaze me.
Simple pool demo:
This is a little pool "game" (not quite a full game, but you can knock balls around). Art by Matt Mitman, thanks *tons* Matt! My real-life pool game has improved by about 10x since we started working on this thing. And, I have to be honest, T2D has probably been delayed a little, due to time lost playing this thing. ;)
Simple undersea scene:
Next, a little undersea screen-saver type demo. This screenshot doesn't really do it justice. Melv created some *fantastic* dynamic lighting effects for this thing. Melv's friend Craig Ball helped out with this demo, and the great art was produced by Craig Fortune and Nauris Krauze of the De-railed team, with a little help from Jeff Gran, a talented intern here in the office. Thanks guys!
Checkers!
The best-looking checkers game ever created? ;) If so, it's thanks to Nauris and Craig once again! These guys rock. Pat Wilson did most of the coding for this game, thanks Pat! This demo is still being worked on, it'll have some cool features that aren't displayed in this pic yet.
Side-scrolling shooter:
None of these demos have much gameplay at all, they're really just meant to show off a little bit of what Torque 2D can do. But Melv has been cranking away on this Mars attack shooter, and it's actually pretty fun to play. I guess earlier today Melv's whole office had a big high score competition for this one. You get power-ups like triple-shot, shields, and side-kick ships, and your goal is to destroy the swarms of enemies that fly your way. This demo has been totally re-coded since IGC, but it was originally written in < 9 hours by Pat, who it should be clear to everyone by now, rocks. Nate Feyma and Alex Swanson created this great art, thanks guys!
So there you have it. :) T2D is just around the corner! None of these demos took more than a dozen hours or so of coding, so T2D really lets you focus on game design and art. I can't wait to see what everyone does with this thing! Let's launch this puppy!!
And once again, many, many, many thanks and congratulations to Melv for all his hard work on T2D. Melv, it has been an utter pleasure working with you. With the help of the awesome community around here, I'm sure this thing is going to be worth all of the hard work we've put it on it. It's gonna feel great to see all the work put to use in helping people make cool new games!
For technical info on T2D, see my ridiculously long informal tech overview .plan: T2D core classes, and T2D core systems. Or.. just pick T2D up in a few days, and see for yourself!
About the author
#42
02/23/2005 (3:00 pm)
Josiah, David, you are right, thanks. T2D represents about 18 months of work between Melv, myself, Pat, and others. There's no way we could justify making it free to anyone, especially since Melv has worked so hard on it, despite having a brand new baby daughter in the middle of development. I'm sure that's understandable. :) 
#43
02/23/2005 (3:21 pm)
More than understandable. I jumped on the "I'd pay for it" bandwagon WAY back. 
#44
02/23/2005 (3:59 pm)
Excellet answer :) I was kinda hoping it wasnt free.. which is good news. So the price for this will be listed when it comes out I assume :)
#46
And, big announcement: you do not need to be a Torque owner in order to buy or use T2D source! :) This is possible because we ripped out the stock TGE rendering, leaving Torque's excellent script, platform, GUI, etc framework in place as a base to build from. T2D source includes this core code, as well as the T2D game and rendering functionality. And, once again, anyone who already owns Torque can drop the T2D-specific functionality into their TGE projects without needing to change a single line of C++ code!
Everyone will get a discount on T2D while it's under the Early Adopter program too, just as with TSE right now. On top of that, we wanted to say thanks to TGE owners for their support, so we're giving them an an extra discount. The discounted EA price for T2D source (indie) is $100, and TGE owners will get an extra $20 off that!
We're cranking hard to get this out the door. Jay, Ben B and Alex are working their butts off, and so are Melv and I. Stay tuned!
02/23/2005 (7:02 pm)
On the binary, T2D will be available as a binary-only license eventually, but not right away. We're rolling out the source version first so that we can get this out to everyone as quickly as possible. And, big announcement: you do not need to be a Torque owner in order to buy or use T2D source! :) This is possible because we ripped out the stock TGE rendering, leaving Torque's excellent script, platform, GUI, etc framework in place as a base to build from. T2D source includes this core code, as well as the T2D game and rendering functionality. And, once again, anyone who already owns Torque can drop the T2D-specific functionality into their TGE projects without needing to change a single line of C++ code!
Everyone will get a discount on T2D while it's under the Early Adopter program too, just as with TSE right now. On top of that, we wanted to say thanks to TGE owners for their support, so we're giving them an an extra discount. The discounted EA price for T2D source (indie) is $100, and TGE owners will get an extra $20 off that!
We're cranking hard to get this out the door. Jay, Ben B and Alex are working their butts off, and so are Melv and I. Stay tuned!
#47
02/23/2005 (8:40 pm)
I think 100 bucks is fair. I do worry however about new people coming in and seeing that they can either get a 3d engine for 100 or a 2d engine for the same price.
#48
Since T2D was derived from TGE, from the producer's POV it'd probably cost equal or more, since more effort has been put into it.
On the other hand, the *commonly* held misconception is that only 3d games are ub3r l33t....and I must say, it really is common....>.< These people might have a problem with it being the same (EA) price as a 3d engine...
Of course, once they read all of Josh's and Melv's .plans, I think they'll agree it's worth the price =D
02/23/2005 (8:54 pm)
@Charlie heh....well i guess it depends on how you view itSince T2D was derived from TGE, from the producer's POV it'd probably cost equal or more, since more effort has been put into it.
On the other hand, the *commonly* held misconception is that only 3d games are ub3r l33t....and I must say, it really is common....>.< These people might have a problem with it being the same (EA) price as a 3d engine...
Of course, once they read all of Josh's and Melv's .plans, I think they'll agree it's worth the price =D
#49
02/23/2005 (8:57 pm)
Being 3D doesn't mean it's better. I'll pay $100 por T2D but I won't pay even $50 for TGE, I just don't need it or want it.
#50
02/23/2005 (8:59 pm)
Congrats, excited to take it for a spin...
#51
Just to test my theory, I just asked one of my co-workers what he thought about the price, since i've been telling him about t2d and he wants to make a 2d game.
He thought it was on the steep side only because there isn't that much of a demand for 2d games and that 3d for the same price is odd. His feeling being that if there the same price then one or the other must not be that great.
I think it's a fine price considering that you don't need to buy the 3D engine anymore.
I just thought that someone may want a outside opinion. Not to say that his opinion is that of every other outsiders.
02/23/2005 (9:12 pm)
I agree with you all. But again I know it's what I want. I've also been here for a while. So basically, I was trying to look at it from a outside looking in perspective. Just to test my theory, I just asked one of my co-workers what he thought about the price, since i've been telling him about t2d and he wants to make a 2d game.
He thought it was on the steep side only because there isn't that much of a demand for 2d games and that 3d for the same price is odd. His feeling being that if there the same price then one or the other must not be that great.
I think it's a fine price considering that you don't need to buy the 3D engine anymore.
I just thought that someone may want a outside opinion. Not to say that his opinion is that of every other outsiders.
#52
Of course, we didn't want to do Torque 2D because we caught onto some trend. It's just cool that things are working out such that 2D games are getting popular again. If we can help some indies make successful 2D games, especially when the market is willing to accept them again, that'll be awesome.
As for T2D's price-point versus Torque's... look, we sell Torque for beans. :) It is ridiculously underpriced. TGE is very powerful technology, and it gets enhanced constantly (in fact, the next major TGE release is just around the corner, and it has lots of nice improvements). The GG founders decided to make Torque so cheap out of an earnest desire to help indies make games. Can't hold that against 'em!
So yes, T2D's final price, after the Early Adopter release, should be higher than Torque's. That's not because one engine is better than the other (afterall, they're built on the same exact foundation), it's just because Torque sells for much, much less than it's worth. I think you could say that about most everything here.. from code to content packs, we're trying to make it easier to make games on indie budgets. So, yeah, if you look at everything next to Torque, prices won't make traditional sense. That's because, unlike most companies that try to squeeze every dime they can out of customers, we don't mind giving Torque, and really all of our products, away for much less than we could, if it'll help indies make games.
*tear* I love this place. ;) Seriously though, this is one of the main reasons I'm so proud to be involved with GG.
02/23/2005 (10:10 pm)
Actually, the demand for 2D games is growing very rapidly recently. It's pretty interesting to see them resurging so strongly. For example, take a look at this year's IGF finalists, besides great 3D games like Lore, there are lots of really good, really fun 2D games on the list. Indeed, some of the best selling online-distributed games of 2004 were 2D.Of course, we didn't want to do Torque 2D because we caught onto some trend. It's just cool that things are working out such that 2D games are getting popular again. If we can help some indies make successful 2D games, especially when the market is willing to accept them again, that'll be awesome.
As for T2D's price-point versus Torque's... look, we sell Torque for beans. :) It is ridiculously underpriced. TGE is very powerful technology, and it gets enhanced constantly (in fact, the next major TGE release is just around the corner, and it has lots of nice improvements). The GG founders decided to make Torque so cheap out of an earnest desire to help indies make games. Can't hold that against 'em!
So yes, T2D's final price, after the Early Adopter release, should be higher than Torque's. That's not because one engine is better than the other (afterall, they're built on the same exact foundation), it's just because Torque sells for much, much less than it's worth. I think you could say that about most everything here.. from code to content packs, we're trying to make it easier to make games on indie budgets. So, yeah, if you look at everything next to Torque, prices won't make traditional sense. That's because, unlike most companies that try to squeeze every dime they can out of customers, we don't mind giving Torque, and really all of our products, away for much less than we could, if it'll help indies make games.
*tear* I love this place. ;) Seriously though, this is one of the main reasons I'm so proud to be involved with GG.
#53
02/23/2005 (10:25 pm)
I think that's an excellent price, and WELL worth it for what's included in the engine. Plus, Melv needs money for formula!
#54
Is T2D limited by missions like Torque (and upcoming TSE?) ? Or is that limitation removed?
Either/or it doesnt matter to me anymore .. with such a high price tag, I have to wait for almost a year before I can even think about purchasing this seperate engine. Actually, if we were allowed to have a license sell/transfer for Torque, I'll sell that bugger to get T2D, heh.
Anyways, lots of luck!
02/23/2005 (10:31 pm)
Heh, this is both good news and bad news :) Can't wait until the early adopter program begins :) Anyways, the price made me choke since Torque (regular not the new torque shader engine) is quite advanced (if we count the oodles of computation required for 3d compared to 2d) compared to T2D made me kinda wonder ... :) Is T2D limited by missions like Torque (and upcoming TSE?) ? Or is that limitation removed?
Either/or it doesnt matter to me anymore .. with such a high price tag, I have to wait for almost a year before I can even think about purchasing this seperate engine. Actually, if we were allowed to have a license sell/transfer for Torque, I'll sell that bugger to get T2D, heh.
Anyways, lots of luck!
#55
I do think when the binary only version comes out the lower price point will help people differentiate the engines. We do hope that people will find the tool that fits the level of knowledge and skill they have to tackle game creation, but we all know how attractive the shiny 3D game space seems.
Out of the gate we will continue our trademark "indie" licensing (the $100 for source that Josh mentioned above) and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that we'll also have the commercial version available in EA.
If the phone ringing constantly this week is any indication - there is definately interest from current commercial game developers (those who make more than $250,000 a year or are not making games) in getting their hands on the commercial license of T2D at $395 per programmer seat.
With stock Macromedia Flash MX costing $499 I don't think anyone can say we've over priced T2D commercial.
You have to question your pricing sanity sometimes when prospective customers say "you know you're practically giving this technology away," but that is just how GG likes it... lets not let access to the technology keep any of us from pushing the boundaries and creating new games.
02/23/2005 (10:51 pm)
From the guy who lives, eats and breaths price point value propositions... Charlie as you point out this was a concern for us as well.I do think when the binary only version comes out the lower price point will help people differentiate the engines. We do hope that people will find the tool that fits the level of knowledge and skill they have to tackle game creation, but we all know how attractive the shiny 3D game space seems.
Out of the gate we will continue our trademark "indie" licensing (the $100 for source that Josh mentioned above) and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that we'll also have the commercial version available in EA.
If the phone ringing constantly this week is any indication - there is definately interest from current commercial game developers (those who make more than $250,000 a year or are not making games) in getting their hands on the commercial license of T2D at $395 per programmer seat.
With stock Macromedia Flash MX costing $499 I don't think anyone can say we've over priced T2D commercial.
You have to question your pricing sanity sometimes when prospective customers say "you know you're practically giving this technology away," but that is just how GG likes it... lets not let access to the technology keep any of us from pushing the boundaries and creating new games.
#56
02/24/2005 (12:17 am)
Thanks for the info guys.
#57
I totally agree that the TGE is underpriced at $100, and I have a great amount of respect to the GG team for offering such good products at prices that indies can afford. For less than $200 (about
02/24/2005 (3:09 am)
$80 for existing Torque owners is more than a fair price for an engine of such obvious capabilities. Heck, that works out to be about 40 of my English pounds - about the price of a new game over here in the UK. When you consider what you'll be able to do with T2D, and all the promised documentation and demos, its a bargain.I totally agree that the TGE is underpriced at $100, and I have a great amount of respect to the GG team for offering such good products at prices that indies can afford. For less than $200 (about
#58
Also I am very happy to know that I am not the only other saddo checking the site and my email for updates every five minutes!!! :P
02/24/2005 (4:24 am)
I totally agree with you David. The pricing is about right. If you take a look at certain other recently released products, they come with a similar price tag and, at the end of the day, they are just languages i.e. you still have to do a lot initialisation code. Also I am very happy to know that I am not the only other saddo checking the site and my email for updates every five minutes!!! :P
#59
02/24/2005 (5:16 am)
Amen, Darryl :) I didn't feel as pitiful once I realized everyone was checking just as much as I was!
#60
02/24/2005 (6:53 am)
Hehe.. the release is quite a bit more than 5 minutes away, but thanks for checking so much!
Employee David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake