Torque 3D MIT FAQ
by Eric Preisz · 09/18/2012 (4:30 pm) · 34 comments
Torque 3D MIT FAQ
We are working hard on the final steps to deliver Torque 3D through GitHub using the MIT license; but before we are ready to launch, I'd like take a second to answer some of the common questions we've been receiving through our support channels and forums.
Before, I list the questions though, I have a few reminders. Firstly, and most importantly, we are still looking for candidates to be on the committee that will guide T3D development. We think this group should have a diverse set of opinions and experiences in order to best represent the community –the ultimate drivers of the technology. If you are interested, read this blog.
Secondly, please bear with us as we update our site. You may notice a few bumps or performance issues as we transfer our site to upgraded hosting in order to accommodate our new expected traffic.
Thanks for you time. The next update will be the release blog.
Q: When are you releasing the MIT version of T3D.?
A: Soon. Very soon. We are doing some final touches such as upgrading our site to handle the expected increase in traffic.
Q: Can I give the engine & tools I received with a prior commercial license purchase to a friend as open source?
A: No, only the MIT released code can be shared without a commercial license. We’ve updated our headers and copyright for the MIT release to ensure that it is free and clear. Without that notice, you need a license.
Q: Can I release my in progress game using the new MIT license?
A: Yes, but you must merge your existing code with the new MIT licensed code from our GitHub repo before doing so. The MIT and 1.2 commercial version are nearly identical so it shouldn’t be very difficult.
Q: Am I still required to include a T3D splash screen?
A: If you have merged your code with the MIT code, or started with only the MIT code, no you do not have to include the T3D splash screen. Though it would be appreciated if you chose to include the logo somewhere.
Q: Am I required to release my game/add-on/product as open source now?
A: No. MIT is a highly permissive license and allows the right to close the source for your product. This is one of the reasons we chose MIT over a GPL version. We believe MIT is much better for games.
Q: Do I have to contribute my engine changes back to the trunk?
A: You aren't required to contribute your changes back to the trunk if you don't want to. If you have something that you think would be useful to others it's highly encouraged to share.
Q: Are other engines from GarageGames available under MIT?
A: Currently only T3D will be available under MIT.
Q: Are Add-Ons in the store open sourced too?
A: No. Products sold in our store are not released under the MIT license unless otherwise noted.
Q: I bought T3D on or after Sept 1st. Can I get a refund now that it will be free?
A: Contact support@garagegames.com to request a refund.
Q: Why are you still selling T3D in your store if it's going to be free now?
A: We still selling T3D in the store for teams that can't wait for the MIT release, or may not want to merge their code with MIT code for their current project, and need more licenses right away. Your ability to buy licenses on-line will go away with the release.
About the author
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#2
May i ask what is the new business model that will ensure garagegames survival?
Also, if all the assets that come with the current t3d are not part of the MIT version, may I suggest that you convert it in some sort of "content pack" ?
So those looking to use the MIT code base with the assets they initially bought bundled with T3D can simply "drop in" rather than having to do a code merge?
And you could still sell them.
09/18/2012 (6:18 pm)
So the commercial version will essentially disappear am i right?May i ask what is the new business model that will ensure garagegames survival?
Also, if all the assets that come with the current t3d are not part of the MIT version, may I suggest that you convert it in some sort of "content pack" ?
So those looking to use the MIT code base with the assets they initially bought bundled with T3D can simply "drop in" rather than having to do a code merge?
And you could still sell them.
#3
-services.garagegames.com/
-3stepstudio.com/
-Non-3Step 2D Game Development
-[insert next innovative product]
-www.garagegames.com/products/browse
The service business and 3 Step Studio have been operating for almost a year. We are combining iTorque/Torque 2D into one product (current owners will get the new product for free). We have a lot of R&D work going on. And the store may get a big upgrade depending on how T3D MIT goes.
09/18/2012 (8:47 pm)
@Kyrah - We have a lot going on:-services.garagegames.com/
-3stepstudio.com/
-Non-3Step 2D Game Development
-[insert next innovative product]
-www.garagegames.com/products/browse
The service business and 3 Step Studio have been operating for almost a year. We are combining iTorque/Torque 2D into one product (current owners will get the new product for free). We have a lot of R&D work going on. And the store may get a big upgrade depending on how T3D MIT goes.
#4
09/18/2012 (9:40 pm)
Great news, thanks Eric! 
#6
09/19/2012 (4:43 am)
Very clear, thanks. 
#7
Is services and 3stepstudio advertised anywhere on this site? This is the first time I hear about those services and it could have been more visible. If I wouldn't have heard about it in this blog, I wouldn't have known.
09/19/2012 (4:43 am)
Eric,Is services and 3stepstudio advertised anywhere on this site? This is the first time I hear about those services and it could have been more visible. If I wouldn't have heard about it in this blog, I wouldn't have known.
#8
What is the status of AFX for T3D? Was integration ever offered?
If it was, how will AFX be handled once T3D 1.2 opens on the MIT license?
09/19/2012 (6:04 am)
One question as a person not all that familiar with recent T3D events.What is the status of AFX for T3D? Was integration ever offered?
If it was, how will AFX be handled once T3D 1.2 opens on the MIT license?
#9
09/19/2012 (6:55 am)
Quote:
Q: Are Add-Ons in the store open sourced too?
A: No. Products sold in our store are not released under the MIT license unless otherwise noted.
#10
09/19/2012 (7:14 am)
how can release T3d 1.2 in MAC? 
#11
You should be able to merge AFX into the open source version of Torque 3D since Jeff already updated it for 1.2.
@Szzg007
We have provided the CE community with the Mac work that was done by a contractor for us. We are hoping that more OS Mac devs with strong experience pick up a solid port for the MIT release.
09/19/2012 (7:18 am)
Since MIT is a permissive license, Jeff and the rest of the third-party developers in the storefront do not have to release their packs under any OS license. They can continue to develop and sell new packs without changing their licensing.You should be able to merge AFX into the open source version of Torque 3D since Jeff already updated it for 1.2.
@Szzg007
We have provided the CE community with the Mac work that was done by a contractor for us. We are hoping that more OS Mac devs with strong experience pick up a solid port for the MIT release.
#12
Services is a link on the top of our page. You can expect to see more Services advertising as time goes by (with the goal of it not being annoying). Our target for services are larger projects (right now we are doing several $500k - $1MM dollar contracts) that, in most cases, won't be a good fit for indie developers.
09/19/2012 (8:49 am)
@Stefan - 3 Step isn't ready for advertisement. Right now, we are basically working in the public view with no advertising. My marketing guy's only job right now is to find 10 3 Step advocates that he can work closely with.Services is a link on the top of our page. You can expect to see more Services advertising as time goes by (with the goal of it not being annoying). Our target for services are larger projects (right now we are doing several $500k - $1MM dollar contracts) that, in most cases, won't be a good fit for indie developers.
#13
Why is it that so many people are having a hard time grasping that it 'us' that has to do the due diligence and observance of 3rd party licenses/EULAs, and not GarageGames? It might simplify things for some if 3rd party offerings came with a choice of Personal-Use or Studio licensing, but then in either case bought content still couldn't be shared publicly, duh!
09/19/2012 (12:18 pm)
The 3 Step software was a great little toy to play around with -- and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner! You guys are certainly on track for it to be a great introduction for zero-experience want to be game makers.Why is it that so many people are having a hard time grasping that it 'us' that has to do the due diligence and observance of 3rd party licenses/EULAs, and not GarageGames? It might simplify things for some if 3rd party offerings came with a choice of Personal-Use or Studio licensing, but then in either case bought content still couldn't be shared publicly, duh!
#14
Like, I get that stuff like Art packs or whatnot don't apply, as nothing obligates dealing with the MIT license, but say you have a pack that adds something like a new editor into T3D. It'd need to ride off the existing T3D code, which is MIT, to work.
How would you license your pack and still get it to play nice with T3D, without the pack being MIT(as people could theoretically take your work and just rebrand/resell, etc, etc)
I guess the question boils down to, when dealing with engine code, how would we 'glue' non-MIT code to the core without license shenanigans?
09/19/2012 (1:10 pm)
One thing I've been trying to discern is how the MIT license would play into 3rd party packages while preventing derivative productions of the pack.Like, I get that stuff like Art packs or whatnot don't apply, as nothing obligates dealing with the MIT license, but say you have a pack that adds something like a new editor into T3D. It'd need to ride off the existing T3D code, which is MIT, to work.
How would you license your pack and still get it to play nice with T3D, without the pack being MIT(as people could theoretically take your work and just rebrand/resell, etc, etc)
I guess the question boils down to, when dealing with engine code, how would we 'glue' non-MIT code to the core without license shenanigans?
#15
09/19/2012 (1:14 pm)
You track down the person pirating your add-on and stick a sword in 'em ;)
#16
Using MIT T3D does not force your code under the MIT license.
09/19/2012 (1:18 pm)
You insert your own copyright information, just like you would with a closed source product. Then you provide the merge directions or a patch file to perform the merge.Using MIT T3D does not force your code under the MIT license.
#17
I guess I still didn't explain this well enough when I wrote the initial draft of this. You don't have to release your pack under an MIT license. Basically, it's no different than it is now with a couple exceptions. First is that you don't have to be concerned about selling only to people with T3D licenses, and well actually I think that's about it.
09/19/2012 (1:19 pm)
Quote:
Q: Am I required to release my game/add-on/product as open source now?
A: No. MIT is a highly permissive license and allows the right to close the source for your product. This is one of the reasons we chose MIT over a GPL version. We believe MIT is much better for games.
I guess I still didn't explain this well enough when I wrote the initial draft of this. You don't have to release your pack under an MIT license. Basically, it's no different than it is now with a couple exceptions. First is that you don't have to be concerned about selling only to people with T3D licenses, and well actually I think that's about it.
#18
The MIT license is permissive and doesn't force other code that interfaces with it, derives from it, or sits next to, on top of, or beside it to be released under a MIT license. You just need to follow the license under which the code in question is released. If it doesn't allow you to release the code into the wild, then you don't.
- Dave
09/19/2012 (1:22 pm)
@Jeff:The MIT license is permissive and doesn't force other code that interfaces with it, derives from it, or sits next to, on top of, or beside it to be released under a MIT license. You just need to follow the license under which the code in question is released. If it doesn't allow you to release the code into the wild, then you don't.
- Dave
#19
09/19/2012 (4:46 pm)
One third party offering will be MIT. That is the direction I am going to take with the Python resource. Right now the license basically reads you have to have a Torque product. That will no longer be the case. When I revise the Python resource to work with T2D I will make that change on all source files. I am really liking the GG direction with MIT code. I can now include the source file itself as well as diffs so that merging will be easier. Thanks GG! 
#20
MIT code can be injected into anything without changing how the thing is legally used or distributed.
09/20/2012 (5:45 am)
If you make some mega-improved T3D version, the MIT license lets you sell it as a ready to run T3D installation. For example the AI kits sold on the store here (and which currently come in patch form/lots of files to shuffle into the right place) could be standalone kits.MIT code can be injected into anything without changing how the thing is legally used or distributed.
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