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October Update

by Eric Preisz · 10/30/2010 (12:53 am) · 107 comments



It’s been about a month since I posted a blog, so we all agreed that I would take some time to post this blog instead of our normal monthly product update in the forums. We are a heads down right now focusing on Windows Phone 7, so writing one big update will free up the others to keep things rolling. So instead of blogging on a single big topic, I’m going to cover a lot of smaller developments.


static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

Torque 3D Binary



We developed the business case for our binary offering a little over a year ago. At the time, the idea of updating a binary with the final release seemed reasonable. One of the assumptions that was made at the time was that a final 1.1 would be available sooner rather than later. Well, the final release hasn’t happened. One reason that 1.1 final hasn’t arrived is that we have increased the bar for what we consider final. We introduced beta 3, and from what we are hearing from you, we are indeed approaching a higher bar of quality. The numbers of bugs we are now finding and recording are significantly less than the time after our beta 2 release. And while the pro users have benefited from the quality improvement, the binary users sat patiently waiting for 1.1 so that they can get their hands on the fixes and performance increases.

We decided that the binary users have been waiting too long and since beta 3 is such a quality and performance improvement over the 1.0 binary, we came to the realization that it’s only right for us to change our stated policy and give the binary users a binary version of 1.1 beta 3. Your 1.0 and 1.1 beta 3 versions are now available in your account.








static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

Web Site Updates


We are continuing to work on our web-site. Right now we are in the middle of big update of our payment processing system in order to accommodate the tax laws both in the US and overseas. I would rather be spending our time on features for our community, but this work is part of doing business correctly.

During this update, we’ve been adding some small features to the site and we are continuing to fix bugs the best we can. Two improvements we are working on include Studio Profiles which gives you a place to promote your studio on our site; if this is a popular feature, we will continue to increase the functionality. In addition to the Studio Profile, Resource Filters simplify searching for resources by engine type.



static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

Game Distribution


There are two big challenges a game developer faces. The first is finishing a game; the second, and often overlooked challenge, is distributing your game. These days, it’s hard for you to get your game noticed. Web-distribution is one avenue for bringing your game to the people. We currently have a web-based plug-in for Torque 3D that many of you are using. In addition to that implementation, our company has been working for years on a high-end distribution system. We aren’t ready to make that system available to the masses in the near term, so I’ve been given the company “OK” to start working with third parties who are also developing similar technologies. What this means to you is that we are working towards partnerships so that we can integrate these technologies into our products so that you can more easily take advantage of their offerings. We have started working on a Torque 2D 1.7.6 that will hopefully make it easier for you to distribute your games via the web. More to follow later in blog dedicated to the topic.

static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

TorqueX


GS 3.1 is entering into the sun setting phase and from what we’ve read in public forums, it appears as though games that are submitted using GS 3.1 will be rejected three months after GS Connect 4.0 is released , That means we have x+90 days of 3.1 publishing with x being the number of days until GS Connect 4.0 final release. That put us and our TorqueX developers working towards XBLIG in a bit of a pickle.

To further complicate issues, as you know, we are working on a new XNA based engine that we feel is significant architectural improvement over that of TorqueX. The focus for our initial release is for Windows Phone 7; however, I can tell you that we’ve done XBox tests on our Windows Phone 7 code and it runs on the Xbox 360. This doesn’t guarantee that the Windows Phone 7 code will run on the Xbox 360 at launch; but at a minimum it’s foreseeable that it won’t be far from running on the Xbox 360.
So how are we reacting to this news?

Frankly, we haven’t decided. We are measuring a couple of factors before we make a final decision. Those being:
1) The date of the release of GS 4.0 Connect
2) The state of our Windows Phone 7 Engine at that time
3) The market demand for XBLIG publishing with TorqueX 3.1.5

Here’s what we do know:
1) TorqueX users are allowed to upgrade to 4.0 themselves and publish on any XNA platform ( including the phone)
2) We are dropping our price of TorqueX 3.1.5 to $99 as of tomorrow
3) We added a warning to the check-out so that no one purchase TorqueX without knowing the current situation.
4) Community members (graciously driven by Pino ) have undertaken the job of porting TorqueX 3.1.5 to XNA 4.0 today.
5) TorqueX owners will receive a discount towards our Windows Phone 7 engine.

static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

iTorque 3D

We are continuing to work hard on iTorque 3D, but we have run into some delays. We are currently forecasting a release in Q1 with the hopes of delivering a beta as soon as possible.

static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

iTorque 2D


The news for iTorque 2D 1.4.1 is simple. We’ve been continuing to fix bugs and we’ve updated everything so that it is compatible with the last iOS updates. This version will be going to QA soon. Depending on the results of our testing, we could have an update in weeks.

static.torquepowered.com/static/pg/blogs/eric/TorqueLogoSmall.png

Closing


I just returned from the MAX conference. For those of you who don’t know, that’s the Adobe annual developers conference. I felt out of my element, but their 3D hardware accelerating API caught my eye. As game developers, we need to keep an open mind about the next big platform. It’s a crapshoot.

I stumbled upon Jeff Tunnell’s last blog at GG where he states that Windows, OSX, and Linux are not enough. Jeff’s statements were spot on. And while it was more plausible to hit all of the major platforms two years ago, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to accomplish considering the explosion of platforms ( and the looseness of the definition of a platform ). Consoles, phones, tablets, web-portals, thin clients( i.e., OnLive ), and now TVs. Developers should realize that there may be some real potential to supporting 10 to 20 different “platforms” in the not so distant future. The ocean is big -we are preparing.

About the author

Manager, Programmer, Author, Professor, Small Business Owner, and Marketer.

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Blog is locked
#1
10/30/2010 (3:33 am)
Ok, first I want to say, you guys are awesome. I have been eagerly awaiting the release of 1.1 and really really wanting a beta...

Downloading the Beta 3 right now. Thank you guys so much, and it's nice to hear that things are moving along. Also, good luck.
#2
10/30/2010 (9:04 am)
T3D Binary 1.1 Beta 3?
In other words: The development of T3D takes longer than expected.

Question: Did GG (TP) think about to integrate Umbra Occlusion Culling and Beast Lightmapping into T3D like Unity did?

Don't get me wrong, but sometimes i think, that the advance of Unity is getting bigger and bigger.
#3
10/30/2010 (10:09 am)
@Thomas
You are not alone. I love Torque but lately it seems like its lagging behind the competition. I guess its just an effect of having too many engines. GG is spreading too thin in order to support each code base and the platform is geting more and more fragmented each time..

My opinion (I guess it doesn't matter at all) GG should really start integrating technologies. Integrate T3D and T2D and iT3D with iT2D, so all your efforts are focused into two engines.

#4
10/30/2010 (10:38 am)
Quote:
Web-distribution ... I’ve been given the company “OK” to start working with third parties who are also developing similar technologies.
Sounds interesting.

Quote:
...big update of our payment processing system in order to accommodate the tax laws both in the US and overseas.
I thought that it was the right of every American to dodge tax? ;)
#5
10/30/2010 (2:19 pm)
Torque 3D is great, but I must admit I'm with Guimo/Thomas on this one. 1.01 wasn't even worth thinking about for our game, 1.1 is much better, but now at BETA 3 it should have been completed some time back - If I had a crystal ball and I wasn't heavily invested in Torque I'd probably have gone for Unity instead and working on my second game by now, originally Torque 3D was far superior to Unity and I believe it still can be with a bit more TLC, but cannot help but feel that it now seems to be the other way round. I don't care about Windows 7 engine or a new Torque X as my main focus is finishing my game with T3D, I'm more interested in seeing T3D final and stable without bugs - you guys need to finish one project before starting another, without constantly moving the goal posts - as it's clear that you just dont have the resources to work on multiple engines at the same time.

I'm also reliant on middleware and custom contracted code also, so until 1.1 final is complete - I have to wait for the middleware to catch up so I can complete my game, as some do not support BETAs and then do a final check on the custom code to make sure there has not been any major changes since 1.01. So if T3D 1.1 final is going to be quarter 1 (maybe?), it'll be half way until next year before I can complete which is not good news at all - what happend to 1 release per month? I'll just have to make do with what I can until then or waste more money to get the middleware up to speed - I was hoping for better news than this. Good for new people, but existing devs who supported and invested their money into T3D and earlier engines from the start not so good.

Finish 1.1 guys and then spend all the time you like on new engines to generate new sales. Otherwise you'll be dragging your heels even further with yet even more engines taking up even more resources, un-finished or even worse buggy as hell.
#6
10/30/2010 (4:18 pm)
Quote:The development of T3D takes longer than expected.
Quote:GG is spreading too thin in order to support each code base and the platform is geting more and more fragmented each time..
Quote:I don't care about Windows 7 engine or a new Torque X, I'm more interested in seeing T3D final and stable without bugs - you guys need to finish one project before starting another - as it's clear that you just dont have the resources.

Yeah, I'd gripe again but it looks like I'm not only one who's tired of waiting — oh and it's 381 days and counting btw.
#7
10/30/2010 (4:52 pm)
The thing which alot of people aren't considering is the cost of unity if you require the source.

Unity pro is $1500 (per seat!), 50% more then T3D (which supports studio licensing). and thats without the source which you get with T3D.

Unity's source is dependant on the title and the formats it will be released on, but is generally around the €30,000 ($42,000)

what did Sir Alex say about cows in the neighbours fields ? ;)

If you can 100% rely on just script access though...
#8
10/30/2010 (5:12 pm)
I also agree with Guimo/Thomas/JulianR. Unity 3D would have been the better choice (and still is). I would love to see Torque make a come back, but based off how many code bases they are working on. I highly doubt it at this point. :(
#9
10/30/2010 (6:24 pm)
when I can see pacific demo?...
#10
10/30/2010 (7:38 pm)
Good update. A number of things look quite intriguing -- Studio Profiles means more publicity for your studio, which is only good.

I know you're probably not ready to talk more about your Game Distribution plans yet, but I'm going to ask anyway. :) It wasn't exactly clear, but it seems like that instead of trying to become a digital distribution portal yourself (which I know was a bit of what the original Instant Action incarnation was), you guys are now instead taking the route of incorporating distribution SDK's into the engines themselves, and working with some of those sites to secure proper licensing for that type of SDK integration?

If so, I think it's genius, and if those portals include the major distribution sites like Steam, Stardock, and Direct2Drive, it's definitely something we'd be very interested in. If you're looking for ealy alpha testers for that integration, please include Windstorm Studios on that list. :)

Dusty
#11
10/30/2010 (7:47 pm)
@Guimo - couldn't agree with you more.
#12
10/30/2010 (8:22 pm)
hi Eric,
dont want to hijack your blog, but dont want to start a thread just to ask, well, you, a question:
I recently re-assigned my seat to someone else, but now, I have no access to the private forums, and it does not show in my pruducts.
surely, as being the purchasee of this product, I should maintain my access to the private forums, and it should appear in my products to download, seeing as I payed for it.
and how can I check progress and ask questions relevant to my product, if I cant get access to the forum, or cant download the latest release to see if changes work between releases?
I am the studio owner, regardless of the seat allocation,
is there a way to adress this??
#13
10/30/2010 (9:17 pm)
That sounds great (TorqueX). I'm really looking forward to the new adoptions with the phone, and continued 360 development.
#14
10/30/2010 (10:23 pm)
@JulianR

I have to agree with Andy, over all for what you get, Torque 3D is a much better deal than Unity when talking about money, In my opinion. This has nothing to do with bells and whistles solely which it seems some are using as a scale as to which is the "best" engine. I don't believe it is a question as to which is better than the other, as in game Engine Vs. Game Engine, it really boils down to which is the best game engine for what YOU want to do, not what is planned to happen to the engine in the future.
When I bought Torque it fit the needs as of 1.0 to complete the game I wanted to make, and it still is. I wouldn't have bought it if it didn't have the features that I needed, so I am wondering why people did buy it if it didn't have what you needed to complete the game then and there? I know from a few semi-professional companies that I have worked with that this is how the decision as to which engine they will be going with is made, if they didn't then development will be much like how JulianR describes it.
Here is an example to illustrate my point:
Let's say that I was building something, anything, doesn't have to be a game it could be a house. The point is when I go to buy a tool to build that house I am going to buy it based on what it does. I will not be buying it based on what the upgraded product will be next year.

I hope this doesn't start something as I intended no disrespect to anyone, or their ability, but these are things that I was taught in school to consider when choosing a game engine.

Bobby
#15
10/31/2010 (2:41 am)
Well i don't mind them coming out with beta 3 so late. I bet they are making allot of other stuff thats already finished for the first payed upgrade so just means they worked harder on allot of new stuff for that upgrade.

I think you guys are going a good job putting out allot of stuff that helps allot though there might be some things I want. one thing is a better terrain generation inside torque and not haveing to use l3dt. I more detail in the terrain I been looking at allot of outside programs though so might do terrain as a object if I can get textures high quality with it.
#16
10/31/2010 (3:17 am)
Quote:We have started working on a Torque 2D 1.7.6 that will hopefully make it easier for you to distribute your games via the web.

That's all I wanted to hear! Hopefully, it'll be stable/fast enough to give me reason to move back to TGB from Flash.
#17
10/31/2010 (5:46 am)
Quote:Well i don't mind them coming out with beta 3 so late. I bet they are making allot of other stuff thats already finished for the first payed upgrade so just means they worked harder on allot of new stuff for that upgrade.

I won't invest another dime into T3D until they give us more. I still haven't felt like they have given me $1000 worth. I have been burned by GG so many times now it will never happen. Of course I said this after the TGEA fiasco.
#18
10/31/2010 (6:17 am)
My concern is not the choice of engine (Torque is the right choice for us) albeit the time taken to complete 1.1 final we could have paid for and used a more feature complete, stable, optimized and all bells and whistles engine but chose to stick with Torque (historically) and even if we didn't choose Torque as the engine of choice, changing engines is not an option - it's far too late for that being counter productive and costly, 1.0 was just too buggy and broken on stock functionality for our multi-player game needs with features that did not work since the TGE days are now fixed with certain show stopping bugs on 1.0 middleware that are now fixed in 1.1 B2 onwards, so we could not go back to 1.0 even if we wanted to - the only way is forward. It's the fact that resources/time is being spent to work on/complete new engines, could have been spent to complete 1.1. So we are having to wait another maybe 4-9 months for 1.1 final and for middleware to catch up (if they feel its worth waiting for/port the code or another solution comes along) as most updates to 1.0 middleware have stopped and are not being updated until 1.1 final - so catch 22! We're ploughing on regardless, implementing what we need to finish instead of waiting for time and cost saving middleware but it's additional costs and time I could do without and may be counter productive in the end anyway..

I'm a die hard fan of Torque which is probably why I get frustrated by 1.1 not being completed sooner rather than later, as I'm keen to finish my game and use Torque for the next few titles. Completion of T3D 1.1 final would make all the difference for both sides (engine devs and game devs) and would free up pressure and time to work on other projects. I'm not degrading what the guys at IA/Torque are doing as they are doing a great job, but I can't help but see that the priorities are not right, it just doesn't make logical sense to work on new engine tech until other engines are finished, unless you have the resources of course :)

@Eric - is the delay of 1.1 final due to the apple version not being up to speed with 1.1 b3?
#19
10/31/2010 (8:27 am)
Andy Wright: Actually source code is not a big sales feature nowadays. Just keep in mind that you can get source code even for free when you use Irrlicht or Ogre 3d (the latter has a lot of published games, Torchlight among them). And there are cheap and well organized ones like C4.

So from my understanding all components of an engine contribute to the feature list in the end.
#20
10/31/2010 (10:07 am)
@Andy Wright
I love Torque. Having the source code allows me to customize it as I want and of course that's a huge plus.
But the point is that as a tool to create games, right now there are engines (Unity, Esenthel and others) which bring very interesting tools and even without source code the scripting support is very powerful and allows to create quite interesting results. So if you are planning to make a small game to deploy in multiple platforms in order to make a quick buck to support yourself, then having a more solid codebase and a greater flexibility to quickly transform your project and deploy into other platforms in order to get more revenue for your game is far more useful than having the source code.

On the other hand, if you are trying to make your dream game with all the features you want for it, then having the source code is a huge plus. Personally I think I would never been able to create my game without the source code.

I was just trying to point that integrating engines would be beneficial to GG in the long run.

@Jon D, I really think $1000 for the source code of an engine the size and quality of Torque is a steal.

Luck to all!
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