T3D's features?
by Kory Imaginism · 07/14/2009 (8:26 am) · 23 comments
I posted this in the T3D private www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/96975
forum but I thought that people that haven't made the switch to T3D should also be include. Just in case they were wondering the same thing but aren't sure what is in the beta, because they haven't gotten it yet.
T3D is by far the best engine GG's has ever released! With the engine going into beta 4 soon, I've notice that some of the features I was counting on to be in T3D out-the-box aren't in any of the betas. So I was wondering if things like Wetness & Precipitation, the luma racing kit, and a host of things that gerhard was working on will make it into one of the upcoming betas or if they are at least scheduled for the final release. I'm only asking because it's important for my projects development, so I'll know what and what I don't have to do on the programming side of things. To anyone working on T3D keep up the hard work you guys are simply amazing!
Please hold any negative and rude comments!
Thanks
forum but I thought that people that haven't made the switch to T3D should also be include. Just in case they were wondering the same thing but aren't sure what is in the beta, because they haven't gotten it yet.
T3D is by far the best engine GG's has ever released! With the engine going into beta 4 soon, I've notice that some of the features I was counting on to be in T3D out-the-box aren't in any of the betas. So I was wondering if things like Wetness & Precipitation, the luma racing kit, and a host of things that gerhard was working on will make it into one of the upcoming betas or if they are at least scheduled for the final release. I'm only asking because it's important for my projects development, so I'll know what and what I don't have to do on the programming side of things. To anyone working on T3D keep up the hard work you guys are simply amazing!
Please hold any negative and rude comments!
Thanks
About the author
#3
07/14/2009 (12:44 pm)
Some of the stuff is already in (soft particles and some of the SSAO). Hopefully they give the particle editor some love before release as it is still stuck in the TGE days. The SSAO bit needs some config options as well exposed. As for the other stuff I haven't really heard a solid aye or nay on so I guess we all will see :-). 
#4
Gerhard Stuff: Some, not all
Wetness & Precipitation: Iffy...
Thanks for the support, btw. We appreciate it.
07/14/2009 (3:02 pm)
Luma Racing Kit: NoGerhard Stuff: Some, not all
Wetness & Precipitation: Iffy...
Thanks for the support, btw. We appreciate it.
#5
WHAT! Is this meaning that the Wetness and Precipitation won't be in the next beta...or in the final release at all! (sorry for the rant...I was under the impression that Wetness and Precipitation was part of Torque 3D)
07/14/2009 (3:52 pm)
Quote:Wetness & Precipitation: Iffy...
WHAT! Is this meaning that the Wetness and Precipitation won't be in the next beta...or in the final release at all! (sorry for the rant...I was under the impression that Wetness and Precipitation was part of Torque 3D)
#6
I'll be buying T3D sometime soon..$655/$705 is not alot really and I do enjoy fiddling, working, testing and creating in torque based products.
What's happening with the wetness and precip in T3D ?
07/14/2009 (4:06 pm)
I can hear the excuses now: "Just because it's on the T3D sales page doesn't mean it is a promised feature...we're just showcasing what it looks like if it worked."I'll be buying T3D sometime soon..$655/$705 is not alot really and I do enjoy fiddling, working, testing and creating in torque based products.
What's happening with the wetness and precip in T3D ?
#7
I think the initial blog on the wetness & precipitation seemed to imply that it would be included, though the blog just said it was something they were working on for GDC demos. And Gerhard said in the comments "This is simply an ambitious demonstration of how to use multiple passes with CustomMaterials." and went on to list a number of challenges that had to be overcome. Perhaps they haven't been able to overcome them.
Or maybe Gerhard flew the coup, haven't heard anything from him in a while :P
07/14/2009 (4:26 pm)
Finally got around to buying a license myself, though I'm under a crunch and will thus probably have to cocoon it all for a few more weeks. I think the initial blog on the wetness & precipitation seemed to imply that it would be included, though the blog just said it was something they were working on for GDC demos. And Gerhard said in the comments "This is simply an ambitious demonstration of how to use multiple passes with CustomMaterials." and went on to list a number of challenges that had to be overcome. Perhaps they haven't been able to overcome them.
Or maybe Gerhard flew the coup, haven't heard anything from him in a while :P
#8
Can you elaborate please? I purchased Torque with the impression that what was in the Torque Dev Blogs "WOULD" be in the final release. Now, I'm not trying to be rude so please don't take it that way. However if all the features listed in the dev blog are not in final release, wouldn't that be considered bait and switch tactics?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but love for GG! But.... Um....
-Pete
07/14/2009 (4:32 pm)
Quote:Luma Racing Kit: No
Gerhard Stuff: Some, not all
Wetness & Precipitation: Iffy...
Can you elaborate please? I purchased Torque with the impression that what was in the Torque Dev Blogs "WOULD" be in the final release. Now, I'm not trying to be rude so please don't take it that way. However if all the features listed in the dev blog are not in final release, wouldn't that be considered bait and switch tactics?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but love for GG! But.... Um....
-Pete
#9
1. Help you get to know the developers who have been building this product.
2. Shine some light on our development process by exposing feature targets early, even if they end up being cut for the final release.
3. Get you all as excited as I am about what's coming in Torque 3D!
Now then, i'm certainly not saying that wetness and precipitation are being cut from the final build - nor did Mich say that... I cannot say whether it will be in or not at this time. I simply want to point out that we have no intention to bait and switch anyone here, and never have.
Perhaps another employee can get into greater detail about the current status of wetness and precipitation, should they choose to do so.
07/14/2009 (4:43 pm)
This is regarding the purposes of the Torque 3D blogs, per Brett's very first Blog about Torque 3D, here.1. Help you get to know the developers who have been building this product.
2. Shine some light on our development process by exposing feature targets early, even if they end up being cut for the final release.
3. Get you all as excited as I am about what's coming in Torque 3D!
Now then, i'm certainly not saying that wetness and precipitation are being cut from the final build - nor did Mich say that... I cannot say whether it will be in or not at this time. I simply want to point out that we have no intention to bait and switch anyone here, and never have.
Perhaps another employee can get into greater detail about the current status of wetness and precipitation, should they choose to do so.
#10
I know I read all the blogs, I must have skimmed over that sentence =)
It would be nice however if we could get some type of list of what will and what will not be in the final release...
I know we're still in beta, and I understand that there's a huge storm of work that needs done... I'm just saying is all =)
I want to set the floor clear however, I am not accusing GG of bait and switch, I'm just saying that it kinda started feeling that way. This is before I read the comment in Brett's post that some things may be cut from final release.
Trust me, I am a GG fanboi and always will be. I just want to know what will and what won't be in release... (I'm sure we all do)
-Pete
07/14/2009 (4:49 pm)
Thanks for that Kenneth.I know I read all the blogs, I must have skimmed over that sentence =)
It would be nice however if we could get some type of list of what will and what will not be in the final release...
I know we're still in beta, and I understand that there's a huge storm of work that needs done... I'm just saying is all =)
I want to set the floor clear however, I am not accusing GG of bait and switch, I'm just saying that it kinda started feeling that way. This is before I read the comment in Brett's post that some things may be cut from final release.
Trust me, I am a GG fanboi and always will be. I just want to know what will and what won't be in release... (I'm sure we all do)
-Pete
#11
We will make every effort to let you know what will be in the final release as soon as we possibly can. As we get closer to release, this will of course be a lot easier. I will try to make sure that nobody is in the dark about anything.
We are approaching Beta 4 which has a HUGE list of fixes and improvements that I think people will be really happy with.
Thank you for the feedback.. if you are feeling in the dark, others are likely too - and that is important feedback for us to have.
07/14/2009 (4:55 pm)
Pete I totally understand where you are coming from, believe me. :)We will make every effort to let you know what will be in the final release as soon as we possibly can. As we get closer to release, this will of course be a lot easier. I will try to make sure that nobody is in the dark about anything.
We are approaching Beta 4 which has a HUGE list of fixes and improvements that I think people will be really happy with.
Thank you for the feedback.. if you are feeling in the dark, others are likely too - and that is important feedback for us to have.
#12
07/14/2009 (5:08 pm)
Thanks again Kenneth.
#13
It does appear to be a bait-switch tactic to the consumer that is not aware of your business model. There is a video of the wet/precip stuff on the PreOrder page.
I wonder why someone would think it is included...hmmmm.
07/14/2009 (5:14 pm)
[ @Kenneth, don't read this as bad! ..I am speaking sincerely! :P ]It does appear to be a bait-switch tactic to the consumer that is not aware of your business model. There is a video of the wet/precip stuff on the PreOrder page.
I wonder why someone would think it is included...hmmmm.
#14
Let me talk to the team about this. Thank you.
07/14/2009 (5:15 pm)
You do have a point, eb. If someone came to the site and had not been reading Brett's blogs form day one, there could certainly be some confusion there as to what exactly is included and what is not. Let me talk to the team about this. Thank you.
#15
In earlier release's of Torque you could set a terrain floor tile to "empty". Meaning you could punch a hole in the terrain so you could create your "portal" to your underground "tomb" or "cave" with a carefully crafted DIF object. I did not see this is the Beta, am I missing a better way to accomplish this? Or, is this feature not necessary anymore because of a different perhaps more effective technique? Maybe this ability was missed/moved in the GUI or something?
07/14/2009 (6:49 pm)
I don't want to dismiss the importance of the wet/precip stuff. Since this is a feature blog... I have a question about the T3D terrain editor. In earlier release's of Torque you could set a terrain floor tile to "empty". Meaning you could punch a hole in the terrain so you could create your "portal" to your underground "tomb" or "cave" with a carefully crafted DIF object. I did not see this is the Beta, am I missing a better way to accomplish this? Or, is this feature not necessary anymore because of a different perhaps more effective technique? Maybe this ability was missed/moved in the GUI or something?
#16
Finally I was getting happy about what T3D had to offer and was finally getting some faith back into G.G.
Like everybody here, I preordered because of the features that were shown on the Pre-Order page.
And don't go now and remove the videos from the Pre-Order page, because I and others have already paid. That would just put gas on the fire.
07/14/2009 (11:14 pm)
I really hope GarageGames is not going to do this AGAIN!!!Finally I was getting happy about what T3D had to offer and was finally getting some faith back into G.G.
Like everybody here, I preordered because of the features that were shown on the Pre-Order page.
And don't go now and remove the videos from the Pre-Order page, because I and others have already paid. That would just put gas on the fire.
#17
Since so much emphasis is being placed on outdoor environments I think that the wetness and precipitation features really should be included in the final release.
On a personal note, I'm a little disappointed that the Mesh Road Editor is only going to be a prototyping tool (and leaving it for the community to complete). Maybe it's a better idea to remove it and include the complete feature later?
07/14/2009 (11:51 pm)
I have to agree that "implying" certain features and taking orders for a beta does create the expectation that the major features will be part of the final release (and I think it's a reasonable expectation). That said though, I would rather have a stable first release without and half-baked or "preview" features; and the later a point release with the missing features.Since so much emphasis is being placed on outdoor environments I think that the wetness and precipitation features really should be included in the final release.
On a personal note, I'm a little disappointed that the Mesh Road Editor is only going to be a prototyping tool (and leaving it for the community to complete). Maybe it's a better idea to remove it and include the complete feature later?
#18
The original Wetness effect was pretty, but was written out of line for how our render system worked. That means it has to be rewritten and an artist needs to supply the proper assets to get this to work. The original blog stated we were using his stuff for demos, and whatever was stable enough would make it into Torque 3D. I did not say it was cut, it's just a matter of how it gets in and during what phase. We could deliver this hacked up and bugged, or we can release a stable engine. I think the second option is better.
Through the betas we have been delivering on our promises and the other features, and we are still in BETA. There is no bait and switch, as implied in the blog comments. We did state Gerhard was not an employee and we were leveraging him for high-end demos. The SSAO and DOF that's in right now is going to be cleaned up, but that was not Gerhard code as far as I know. The product page, however, should be updated to properly reflect what will be available. Though, we also display images and videos of games made with Torque that have custom features...probably apples and oranges in that respect.
07/15/2009 (8:09 am)
Sorry for the short reply all. I usually give more detailed responses, and I apologize for the miscommunication. Wetness & Precipitation is a post processing effect. We already have several of these in the engine, such as DOF, SSAO, Light Rays, etc. These all use the deferred renderer.The original Wetness effect was pretty, but was written out of line for how our render system worked. That means it has to be rewritten and an artist needs to supply the proper assets to get this to work. The original blog stated we were using his stuff for demos, and whatever was stable enough would make it into Torque 3D. I did not say it was cut, it's just a matter of how it gets in and during what phase. We could deliver this hacked up and bugged, or we can release a stable engine. I think the second option is better.
Through the betas we have been delivering on our promises and the other features, and we are still in BETA. There is no bait and switch, as implied in the blog comments. We did state Gerhard was not an employee and we were leveraging him for high-end demos. The SSAO and DOF that's in right now is going to be cleaned up, but that was not Gerhard code as far as I know. The product page, however, should be updated to properly reflect what will be available. Though, we also display images and videos of games made with Torque that have custom features...probably apples and oranges in that respect.
#19
07/15/2009 (2:49 pm)
I *think* the wetness could be done using a post effect that modifies the normals in the prepass buffer (copy into another buffer, render back into the prepass buffer). 
#20
It says "Videos of T3D".. it does not say videos of whats possible in T3D if you add it on, or we have the resources to finish it.
It is irrelevant what was said in blogs or posts when the pre-order page seems to contradict something a person would need to sift through blogs and comments to find.
Do not take this as a mean spirited post guys. I have every intention of buying T3D regardless. But this is how problems begin if ya know what I mean.
Keep up the great work Gents!
~LK~
07/15/2009 (3:22 pm)
Either way the pre-order page needs addressed because it's becoming inaccurate.It says "Videos of T3D".. it does not say videos of whats possible in T3D if you add it on, or we have the resources to finish it.
It is irrelevant what was said in blogs or posts when the pre-order page seems to contradict something a person would need to sift through blogs and comments to find.
Do not take this as a mean spirited post guys. I have every intention of buying T3D regardless. But this is how problems begin if ya know what I mean.
Keep up the great work Gents!
~LK~
Torque Owner Bryce
Tactical AI Kit
I second that.