Private Engine Forums Now Open to Public
by Deborah M. Fike · 06/12/2009 (6:37 pm) · 80 comments
For many years, we've kept a closed lid on forums. Our engine-specific forums have been split in two: those that are accessible by everyone and those that can only be accessed by product owners. Starting today, most active private forums have been made public. Now you can access every single forum thread of all non-beta engines, including:
All of the above private forums have been merged with the public one, creating a one-stop shop for all your engine-specific questions.
You may notice that engines still in beta, like Torque 3D and iTGE, aren't on this list. That's because we want to incentive users to buy pre-orders when our builds still have some kinks that need to be ironed out. This process has worked absolute wonders on the development of Torque 3D, and we've been able to forge ahead on bug fixing almost twice as fast as before. In exchange for taking an early bet on us, pre-order users get exclusive information and a chance to impact our dev roadmap. However, once these products have a debugged release candidate, their forums will become completely public.
So why did we decide to go public? We originally wanted a place where people could share source if they owned an engine, but we didn't want that to be available to Internet pirates, and thus, private forums were born. However, this system hurts those developers who are legitimately evaluating the engine, driving away potential customers. So after some internal musing, we've decided to blow open the doors and fight Internet piracy in other ways.
We do ask all of our users to help us identify people who might be using hot copies of Torque on the site. We changed the forums so you can more easily identify an engine owner. Anyone with a Torque symbol or G Logo next to their name is okay to trust. Anyone who doesn't have either a Torque symbol or G logo is only a member of the site and does not own an engine. I've provided a handy pic for your reference:
If these users ask you for source code specific information, please be wary, as they may have stolen Torque from the black depths of the Internet. Feel free to report any suspected abuse to moderators@garagegames.com.
Have fun in the forums!
All of the above private forums have been merged with the public one, creating a one-stop shop for all your engine-specific questions.
You may notice that engines still in beta, like Torque 3D and iTGE, aren't on this list. That's because we want to incentive users to buy pre-orders when our builds still have some kinks that need to be ironed out. This process has worked absolute wonders on the development of Torque 3D, and we've been able to forge ahead on bug fixing almost twice as fast as before. In exchange for taking an early bet on us, pre-order users get exclusive information and a chance to impact our dev roadmap. However, once these products have a debugged release candidate, their forums will become completely public.
So why did we decide to go public? We originally wanted a place where people could share source if they owned an engine, but we didn't want that to be available to Internet pirates, and thus, private forums were born. However, this system hurts those developers who are legitimately evaluating the engine, driving away potential customers. So after some internal musing, we've decided to blow open the doors and fight Internet piracy in other ways.
We do ask all of our users to help us identify people who might be using hot copies of Torque on the site. We changed the forums so you can more easily identify an engine owner. Anyone with a Torque symbol or G Logo next to their name is okay to trust. Anyone who doesn't have either a Torque symbol or G logo is only a member of the site and does not own an engine. I've provided a handy pic for your reference:
If these users ask you for source code specific information, please be wary, as they may have stolen Torque from the black depths of the Internet. Feel free to report any suspected abuse to moderators@garagegames.com.
Have fun in the forums!
About the author
I strengthen the Torque brand by promoting Torque-made games. Talk to me about your Torque projects - XBLA games, casual portal hits, iPhone Apps, simulations or MMOs - and we'll work together to spread the word.
#22
I'd hate to have to deal with some kind of DRM scheme making it annoying to (use subversion repositories) or (use it on home computer, office computer, laptop, mac, etc) or (develop when offline) etc...
I think the private forums (or other private website areas) seemed like a good method, so that even with someone who gets non-legit access to some version of the Torque 3D source code, then he/she has no garagegames.com account license and therefor significantly limited access to certain areas of code help/info.
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/17385/1#comment-127063
06/12/2009 (10:04 pm)
At first I thought "great news", free as in freedom etc. Of course I can see the benefit of letting more potential users see the private forums to get more info about torque. But then I had some second thoughts...I'd hate to have to deal with some kind of DRM scheme making it annoying to (use subversion repositories) or (use it on home computer, office computer, laptop, mac, etc) or (develop when offline) etc...
I think the private forums (or other private website areas) seemed like a good method, so that even with someone who gets non-legit access to some version of the Torque 3D source code, then he/she has no garagegames.com account license and therefor significantly limited access to certain areas of code help/info.
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/17385/1#comment-127063
#23
06/12/2009 (10:17 pm)
I'm glad all of those TGB things that work in TGE can be viewed now when I hit search.
#24
06/12/2009 (10:21 pm)
Finally I can see the TGE forums. That was a pain, because I wanted to read some articles in there but I was restricted to TGEA forums.
#25
www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/17385/1#comment-127063
06/12/2009 (10:25 pm)
@Stealthnh: According to their policy, you were supposed to be able to see the TGE forums before this change. It's a technical issue that your TGEA account was not automatically also given TGE forum access.www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/17385/1#comment-127063
#26
But I dont see how this will encourage more folks to actually buy the engine. It just seems like the left hand is saying "Yes, lets give them access", on the other hand the Right hand is saying " No Source to non license holder" This is just letting those folks with bad licenses simply come and get their answers. I cant see how it will encourage more sales. Is the not releasing source to Non License holders against EULA?
06/12/2009 (10:35 pm)
I am thinking that this is really a bad idea. Particular since alot of the current TGEa is in T3d, plus there are entire exes here and there that include source code. I understand the whole letting folks see whats going on "idea".But I dont see how this will encourage more folks to actually buy the engine. It just seems like the left hand is saying "Yes, lets give them access", on the other hand the Right hand is saying " No Source to non license holder" This is just letting those folks with bad licenses simply come and get their answers. I cant see how it will encourage more sales. Is the not releasing source to Non License holders against EULA?
#27
So its still cool to use the [code] feature? Any chance your feeding the pirates by opening forms that where once private were users exchange complete sources files or complete files just tweaked to "profection" :p
06/12/2009 (10:39 pm)
:) <3 Deborah Marshall <3 (:So its still cool to use the [code] feature? Any chance your feeding the pirates by opening forms that where once private were users exchange complete sources files or complete files just tweaked to "profection" :p
#28
We do ask that you use common sense and not post a .zip file with most of the engine in it (has happened extremely rarely in 8 years of GG.com's history).
06/12/2009 (10:44 pm)
Given the size and complexity of the Torque source code it is highly unlikely that anyone piece together anything useful from the [code] snippets posted in the forums. And, honestly, if they do manage that amazing feat of engineering, perhaps we should encourage them to stay =)We do ask that you use common sense and not post a .zip file with most of the engine in it (has happened extremely rarely in 8 years of GG.com's history).
#29
06/12/2009 (10:48 pm)
Great move, much appreciated. Will make searching for obscure info much easier!
#30
@James: Our web team has noted that Studio versions of Torque 3D aren't showing up on user profiles and is working to correct this very soon.
06/12/2009 (11:00 pm)
@Michael: We're seeing TGE in our unread forum threads. Are you still not seeing it now? We want to make sure you just didn't catch it in a weird window of time. @James: Our web team has noted that Studio versions of Torque 3D aren't showing up on user profiles and is working to correct this very soon.
#31
Maybe TGE just doesn't like me anymore ;)
I'm still of two opinions of the whole merging public and private idea, but it does simplify finding what you want to know (sort of). Now if only we could get people (mostly newcomers) to ask their questions in the proper forums
06/13/2009 (12:06 am)
@Deborah: nah, I'm still not seeing any TGE threads in the unread threads list, and there's been at least two posts since I last marked everything as read. So maybe that "window" includes that time frame? Been using Chrome, but I just checked in Firefox also. Everything else seems to show up fine...Maybe TGE just doesn't like me anymore ;)
I'm still of two opinions of the whole merging public and private idea, but it does simplify finding what you want to know (sort of). Now if only we could get people (mostly newcomers) to ask their questions in the proper forums
#32
06/13/2009 (12:32 am)
3rd on the no TGE threads in Unread Posts. Previously I got the public TGE threads listed but not the Private ones.
#33
What you haven't never seen a bow on a pro!
06/13/2009 (1:13 am)
True that Matt! I know that GG has thought it out, the dog loves community talk!What you haven't never seen a bow on a pro!
#34
06/13/2009 (1:14 am)
Not sure but I hope it's a good idea!
#35
It's simple. GarageGames relies heavily on this community for testing, and source code solutions and innovations. They're not at all shy about advertising what a valuable resource the forums are.
People come to this site looking for a game creation solution. There is no comprehensive class list or engine documentation. They read that the forums are their best resource for information and help. Being the conscientious customer they are, they head to the forums to see this much-touted community help and resource sharing in action. They hit the forums and can't find a single thread to support that assertion because they're all locked away.
They then probably leave the site and go check out Unity3d. :)
06/13/2009 (1:20 am)
Quote:
I understand the whole letting folks see whats going on "idea".
But I dont see how this will encourage more folks to actually buy the engine.
It's simple. GarageGames relies heavily on this community for testing, and source code solutions and innovations. They're not at all shy about advertising what a valuable resource the forums are.
People come to this site looking for a game creation solution. There is no comprehensive class list or engine documentation. They read that the forums are their best resource for information and help. Being the conscientious customer they are, they head to the forums to see this much-touted community help and resource sharing in action. They hit the forums and can't find a single thread to support that assertion because they're all locked away.
They then probably leave the site and go check out Unity3d. :)
#36
06/13/2009 (1:32 am)
I think Sean H's explanation is a good one... Opening the forums makes it easier for potential customers to get more info.
#37
I Know many people with pirate versions of torque, but i dont make business with them until they have bought a license, Total to today that bought a license: (0)
Pirate maybe, and only maybe, is good for testing a software before buy, but without the source code! (Is like Microsoft think...)
So, i need to think that i have a better value or a little advantage that pirate people...
Or maybe you want a open source commercial TGE and TGEA engines?
06/13/2009 (1:33 am)
Make one forum is a good idea, but make all Resources Privates, so only torque owners can access it.I Know many people with pirate versions of torque, but i dont make business with them until they have bought a license, Total to today that bought a license: (0)
Pirate maybe, and only maybe, is good for testing a software before buy, but without the source code! (Is like Microsoft think...)
So, i need to think that i have a better value or a little advantage that pirate people...
Or maybe you want a open source commercial TGE and TGEA engines?
#38
Why is there not a product key associated with our Torque products? Esspecially T3D?
GG should implement some sort of 'activation' or something to thwart pirating.... (ok maybe not activation, but still....)
We have a product key for Constructor, but not T3D?
EDIT - WOW - I'm kinda dumb.... The embarrasing thing is I actually went back to see if there were any replies before posting this and I didn't see any... You ever had one of those "spacing it" moments? Thanks for the note Brett!
06/13/2009 (2:47 am)
I hate to ask again, but I'm going to...Why is there not a product key associated with our Torque products? Esspecially T3D?
GG should implement some sort of 'activation' or something to thwart pirating.... (ok maybe not activation, but still....)
We have a product key for Constructor, but not T3D?
EDIT - WOW - I'm kinda dumb.... The embarrasing thing is I actually went back to see if there were any replies before posting this and I didn't see any... You ever had one of those "spacing it" moments? Thanks for the note Brett!
#39
@Pete, yes, you hate to ask and I hate to read the same question again. We are all haters now, happy? =P
Matt Fairfax answered you, just after your first time.
06/13/2009 (2:51 am)
Applause. YESS. Good move! Applause.@Pete, yes, you hate to ask and I hate to read the same question again. We are all haters now, happy? =P
Matt Fairfax answered you, just after your first time.
#40
06/13/2009 (3:36 am)
Oh jeeze... I dunno how I missed that... Thanks man!
Torque 3D Owner XanthorXIII
One question, is TDN still Private for those that own Torque products?