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T3D Beta - Initial Impressions, Level Editing

by Gareth Fouche · 05/04/2009 (12:12 am) · 70 comments

Well, the T3D beta is upon us, as I'm sure everyone knows. Like all the other pre-order Torquers, I opened up the Warrior Camp and Physics demos and "oohed" and "ahhed" at the shiny. But last night was the first real opportunity I had to sit down and play with T3D so I decided to start at the beginning and create a level from scratch. Shiny is nice, but how does the new engine "feel"?

Luckily, the answer is "slick". :) I'll post up my initial impressions here.

First off, the Toolbox doodad is actually quite helpful. When I initially heard about it I wasn't amazingly interested, I can navigate around my folder structure, this app would be nice when I eventually wanted to publish but I didn't think I'd have much call to use it, day-to-day. I was wrong, having a central launchpad for anything you could want to do just makes things quicker. Having it sit in your toolbar while deving, ready to launch any app you need, is handy.

The first thing that you notice with T3D is how much quicker it loads. MUCH quicker. No more browsing the net while I wait for stage entry. :)

On to world editing. I created a new project, deleted the basic level objects (ground plane, skybox etc) and began to add stuff in one-by-one.

The most obvious thing to comment on is how pretty it all is. T3D is visually on par with any other engine now, no more snide comments from developers using other engines about how outdated Torques graphics are! :D The new shadows and lighting are fantastic, crisp and detailed without being too crisp, completely dynamic, updating instantly in real time. The real time updates make playing with the lighting of your level SO much easier and more time-efficient.

Speaking of real time updates, object properties update as you change them, no more needing to hit "apply". Yay!

World editing is a more subtle change. A few people have said something along the lines of "well, that doesn't look much different to the old way!". But it's all about "flow". There are lots of subtle changes which add up to a much better work flow, and pretty much eliminate that feeling that the editor is trying it's hardest to fight you. Things like the new toolbars, the brush sliders and the snap toggles mean you spend much less time navigating multi-level menus and more time painting the level. Small changes like the splitting of the scene browser and the asset library out into 2 tabs allow you to quickly switch back and forth from creating to editing without losing your place in the navigation tree. The hints that show whenever you edit an object property, explaining function and indicating the variable type. Small changes that add up to a much nicer vibe. :)

It's clear a good deal of thought has been given to how to make the experience more friendly. The addition of waterplanes is a good example of this, simple but at the same time a godsend. Every coastal level I've made in TGEA I've had to plonk down a water block, fly around stretching it out, adjust until the player can't see the edge of the block, etc etc. Small addition but a nice time saver.

Anyway, it's very early beta still but I'm thoroughly impressed. In the end, I'm left facing one question : How can I go back to TGEA after playing with this beauty? Man, but I hope porting my code is relatively painless!

I'll end off with some shots of the level I made, a little island. Just playing around, all basic assets and textures from the warrior camp example level, nothing custom. All credit to Apparatus for the cool meshes, I'm SO poaching some of those for SoW. :)

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#1
05/04/2009 (12:58 am)
The new water objects just amaze me and screen shots just don't do them any justice at all. You should post a shot of the player underwater, looking up out of the water. Amazing stuff!
#2
05/04/2009 (1:49 am)
Agreed, the foam especially in these shots looks a bit "meh" but is really fantastic in motion.
#3
05/04/2009 (2:42 am)
I couldn't agree with you more. We have started testing the networking parts of Xenocell with live servers, and although I did plan to move the game over to Torque3D, that would only happen sometime after it was out of beta.

There's no way back to TGEA now. It's really pretty, but what's got me is the way I can expect stuff from the editors. It's sorta like working on a Mac. You expect stuff, and that's what happens. I love it that things don't crash with an assert for some silliness such as a reversed random range. I also love the way you can undo just about anything!

Of course, there are glitches, but GG, associates and people who pre-ordered are all excited to be testing and fixing inconveniences. Most of the reports are not even show-stoppers.

There's really lots of stuff to tell about, and I too was planning to write a blog post about it, but I'll just wait a bit more. Until then, I'll include a screenshot from my first Torque3D level under development - still an early stage, but coming along nicely imho.

www.xenocell.com/dev/t3dnorthern.jpg


#4
05/04/2009 (2:44 am)
Nice screen Konrad, looking forward to seeing more! :)

And YES, the undo/redo functionality! I forgot to mention that, it works well. You hit the button expecting it to work and it just works. Lovely.
#5
05/04/2009 (2:54 am)
Another thing I should add is that my island, while fairly small in size, is taking up only one small corner of the 1024x1024 map terrain I created, and you can make larger than 1024 terrains, IIRC.

High resolution terrain mesh, high res terrain textures AND plenty of space to build maps, T3D terrain is just leagues better than what it was in previous iterations.
#6
05/04/2009 (3:09 am)
I read somewhere that T3D terrain supported sideprojection of textures. now i was going to try and check that out tonight .... but i just wanted to check if someone else already got it to work.


another note .. cursors ... anyone checked if they have fixed the hardware cursors yet?
#7
05/04/2009 (4:00 am)
The realtime Materials Editor is awesome. No more exiting the app to write stuff in notepad and then reload to see it still needs tweaking.
img11.imageshack.us/img11/7049/treestest1.jpgAnd slowly but surely my stuff creeps in ...
#8
05/04/2009 (4:36 am)
notepad... get Torsion!
#9
05/04/2009 (4:51 am)
Notepad C++ to exact.
#10
05/04/2009 (5:29 am)
Quote:Notepad C++ to exact.
Get Torsion! :)
#11
05/04/2009 (5:30 am)
I'll second the Torsion pimping. Another "once you go X, you don't go back" type tool. ;)
#12
05/04/2009 (7:35 am)
Side projection and parallax mapping for the terrain isn't currently working but Tom Spilman has mentioned that it's on the books for Beta2.

And yeah, Torque 3D is a great step up from TGEa. And all of those naysayers who say it's just a few new shaders and an editor re-skin have no idea on just how functional the new editor interface is.

Oh, and nice screens by the way.
#13
05/04/2009 (8:14 am)
Here's a question for those of you posting positive responses. Do you think the Basic license is now justified after using the new editors and tools?

You are touting most of the features that come with Basic (with the exception of advanced lighting), so what are your thoughts now on the lower cost license?
#14
05/04/2009 (8:37 am)
Looks great!
Any chance to get a Beta-Demo before the preorder time is over ?
#15
05/04/2009 (8:41 am)
I can see why GG wanted the Basic license - catering to developer groups who have people who just do art assets, small indy dev teams who are organised (cos small indy dev teams seem to be getting more organised these days).

I didn't have a problem with the concept before, but having a good play with the new editors/toolsets gives a better explanation.

For the average hobbyist/jack-o'-all-trades/lonewolf I reckon skipping Basic would be best, either use TGEA1.8x or save pennies for Pro and source code.
#16
05/04/2009 (9:02 am)
@Michael: I would pretty much echo what Steve has already said.
#17
05/04/2009 (10:03 am)
@ Michael : I am going to have to say both "yes" and "not sure". I'll explain.

It's not really about tallying up the features of the Basic version or judging the tools, it's that I'm not sure who Basic is aimed at except "artists in teams".

The way I see it Basic should be intended for one of two types of developers. Either the pure level designers/artists or the "dabblers", the ones who want to try Torque out before they graduate to the full suite.

If it was aimed at the designers/artists, I don't see the purpose of excluding the advanced lighting/rivers/roads. They have no access to script or source and cannot integrate future genre kits to add in anything close to real gameplay. Without any ability to add gameplay logic and hence make a real game, I cannot see what purpose it serves denying them the full suite of design/art tools. They've bought the "art kit", give them full capabilities to make the best art they can.

If it's aimed at dabblers, then I can understand removing the advanced art tools. However, it doesn't come with scripting. For dabblers I'd let them try their hands at creating and altering scripts, I think the odds of really creating a finished game without touching source are very low. I'd also let this version have access to advanced genre kits (via scripts). Again, it gives them a chance to play around but I don't think they could finish a game like that, just like I don't think anyone ever finished a TGEA game simply by integrating community resources. Give them the ability to add in some game logic and play around with the kits, dangle the shiny fx and power of the source/resources etc as motivation to upgrade.

So that's why I said both "yes" and "not sure" to your question. Since the stated goal is a scheme for artists/designers in teams, I think it works fine for them. Because they will get one of the programmers to drop them the advanced binary and go from there, meaning Basic is essentially Pro without code/script for their purposes. But in that case I would have called it a Secondary Team License or something. I think more independent designers/artists, guys like Ando, who got hold of TGEA and started independently building levels as a way to attract work and learn, should have the full art tool suite to play with when they buy Basic, regardless of being in a team. In fact I think that would help them get in a team in the first place.

So "yes" for teams, "not so sure" for lone wolves, and I have to question why do it that way since it seems like it makes little difference for the team artists you're mainly aiming at anyways, since it's expected that their programmers will share binaries with them.
#18
05/04/2009 (10:12 am)
@Michael Hall: the "naysayers" do have a point ;) Torque is finally getting on par with the rest of the engines from the same category; and it's a healthy critique, let's be adults and take things objectively ;)
#19
05/04/2009 (10:19 am)
@Michael Perry: I think the Basic/Pro versions are not balanced well, IMHO. 2 things that kinda rain on the decision to get T3D Pro is
a) $250k annual limit and
b) Waivable Torque Splash Screen.

Both those will FORCE me to get T3D Studio, which gets very expensive (per developer) and has unclear licensing terms - for that, I'll go Unity3D Pro, period. ;) If I have money, I'll choose Unreal/Crytec over T3D with close pricing.
#20
05/04/2009 (10:22 am)
[quote="Tau Alex"]Torque is finally getting on par with the rest of the engines from the same category;[/quote]

And what engines would be in that same category that it had to get on par with? Unity is the only other engine I can think of in the low cost bracket that I'd consider using over TGEA, and I own licenses to most of them. Considering that Unity Pro cost $1500 with no source code, and TGEA $300... maybe I'm missing something?
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