Torque 3D Development - GDC Live Edition
by Brett Seyler · 04/04/2009 (2:31 pm) · 333 comments
Wow...another GDC behind us. This was a big one. I dare say it was GG's biggest ever. Josh Williams and I gave a talk on Thursday titles "The Future of Web Games" which ended up being packed full with standing room only. There was a tremendous amount of interest in both InstantAction Technology and Torque 3D. That went off fabulously. We did some private demos for the big gun studios. The GG booth was jam packed for 3 days straight, and despite bringing a full staff of GG'ers to San Francisco to help, I think everyone was overloaded with excited questions and lots of "when can I get that!!??" The really exciting part for Torque 3D stuff (which was absurdely well recieved) is that we've still only shown probably 50% of what we're working on. Some of you saw Tom Spilman's uStream walkthough of the "South Pacific" demo. That's all been captured and posted for you relentless viewing and scrutinizing below =) Obviously a lot of people put hard work into Torque 3D, but we really owe a lot to Sickhead Games for helping us SHOW rather than tell all of what Torque 3D is capable of.
Tom's gone way above and beyond creating a new terrain implementation (as you'll see in the videos), physics, procedural object placement brushing tools (called "Forest Kit" after the original tech it's based on), and of course, the new Advanced Lighting. It's not just Tom though. Russell Fincher, a great artist, is responsible for making most of this look as good as it does. James did the River and Road tools and Ross worked a lot on bending the World Editor to make all this stuff easily accessible and easier to use. That's just the high points, but they really are a great crew. We're lucky to have their help.
So, in this blog, I'm just posting the Torque 3D relevant footage from GDC. You'll see two demos below, both pretty ground-breaking stuff. There's a lot more on the way. This shakey cam stuff is great, but the video is low resolution and I want to get some straight-from-the-machine captures out to really show how good this all looks and how easy it all is to use.
There truly is a lot more to come. There's a more in depth look at the World Editor, a focus on the Road and River tools, Gerhard's AI and GPU Cloth, Physics, new demos, genre kits, and more. We're also going to try to get a live demo embedded on the website so you can see this stuff for real. All that, and our first build for pre-order customers is just around the corner. Since we opened up the pre-order promotion last week, you guys almost broke our ecommerce system with the flood of purchases. Sorry to those of you who were turned away while we tried to patch things up last week. Hopefully everyone who wanted in got in. Shirts are on their way, and the Torque 3D private forums are alive with anticipation. I can't wait to see what you'll all do with this new technology. I have high hopes :)
I also know that there a lot of unanswered questions from the nearly 500 comments on the last blog. I'm going to re-read those thoroughly this week and try to answer them all. Thanks for you patience and thanks again to everyone whose kept the faith and stuck with us. It's great to know there's still such a huge community behind Torque.
More development blogs to come. This is post #16.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3!
- Post #26 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#142
04/06/2009 (10:18 am)
Double post, forum messed up, didnt show above post until i posted a new one (atleast here). 
#143
I really would like GG folks to elaborate more about web installer as we are not offered a demo. I think this will be the only real reason out of 2 (talking about networking as the second reason) I would shell out $505 for T3D (yes, I'm weird). The rest is not very important (to me) - shaders and physics come by cheap now days (and we dont use them much anyways except cute water and terrain, shadows are not noticeable after 30 min of playing, bloom is overrated and misused) - stable web deployment and easy art pipeline (without complicated exporters and additional converting tools) seem to be the challenge.
I really would like to know IN DEPTH the end user installation process (read, experience) for my future clients. A detailed post about upcoming web technology with some videos would really convert me to a T3D customer (and many other folks here, I believe)
04/06/2009 (10:35 am)
Well, much discussed of pricing and such, let's get to the real business.I really would like GG folks to elaborate more about web installer as we are not offered a demo. I think this will be the only real reason out of 2 (talking about networking as the second reason) I would shell out $505 for T3D (yes, I'm weird). The rest is not very important (to me) - shaders and physics come by cheap now days (and we dont use them much anyways except cute water and terrain, shadows are not noticeable after 30 min of playing, bloom is overrated and misused) - stable web deployment and easy art pipeline (without complicated exporters and additional converting tools) seem to be the challenge.
I really would like to know IN DEPTH the end user installation process (read, experience) for my future clients. A detailed post about upcoming web technology with some videos would really convert me to a T3D customer (and many other folks here, I believe)
#144
04/06/2009 (11:06 am)
GarageGames Mafia kicks ass. 
#145
04/06/2009 (11:24 am)
@Ken, word. 
#146
@Brett - You're the man, keep these blogs coming. (Oh, and don't hold off on physics because of multi-user, still plenty of us single-player types around... :)
04/06/2009 (11:35 am)
Change is kind of scary, and change that affects our wallets is even scarier. But some guys here just need to relax - Brett is going way out of his way to give us weekly feature updates so that we aren't in the dark, so we can make decisions about whether T3d is something we actually want to purchase. Yeah, I too wish it were less expensive, but that's natural - I wish my mortgage was cheaper too. But I don't bitch to the bank about it.@Brett - You're the man, keep these blogs coming. (Oh, and don't hold off on physics because of multi-user, still plenty of us single-player types around... :)
#147
04/06/2009 (11:53 am)
Single Player For The Win!Quote:I don't bitch to the bank about itI do, they've massacred the interest rate I was getting. shakes fist in general direction of his bank
#148
Will the river/road system be able to do thinks like this?
Here is a lake:
And this could be a river system for connecting rivers:
Let's not forget the almighty whirpool:
They are crude representations, but I believe you understand what I am thinking.
Would anyone be interested in implementing it? OpenCL boosts performance highly.
04/06/2009 (11:56 am)
Since my question still hasn't been answered for the third time (hate trollers for taking the activity), I will repost it here:Will the river/road system be able to do thinks like this?
Here is a lake:
And this could be a river system for connecting rivers:
Let's not forget the almighty whirpool:
They are crude representations, but I believe you understand what I am thinking.
Quote:Quote:
5. Will Apple's OpenCL API be implemented into the engine? It seems like it would be good for low-performing hardware.]
No plans that i know of.
Would anyone be interested in implementing it? OpenCL boosts performance highly.
#149
04/06/2009 (12:04 pm)
@Jaimi: Thanks =) All these talented people make it pretty easy for me to help show it their work. It's a very fun part of my job.
#150
The player would probably get stuck in that whirlpool .... actually ... that's a great idea for gameplay. Whirlpool of Doom! Player gets pushed along and takes damage (via a trigger or something) if they get stuck at the end.
04/06/2009 (12:09 pm)
@TylerThe player would probably get stuck in that whirlpool .... actually ... that's a great idea for gameplay. Whirlpool of Doom! Player gets pushed along and takes damage (via a trigger or something) if they get stuck at the end.
#151
Yeah... Don't worry... "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."
And Ken.... "cough cough" any news on the program? "cough cough" ;)
04/06/2009 (12:21 pm)
Quote:GarageGames Mafia kicks ass.
Yeah... Don't worry... "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse."
And Ken.... "cough cough" any news on the program? "cough cough" ;)
#152
Pfft. What do you expect? It is a whirlpool? You don't see whirlpools dragging players around and placing them safely onshore...
But anyway, I was wondering what GG thought. Could it be implemented? It looks possible.
04/06/2009 (12:24 pm)
Quote:@Tyler
The player would probably get stuck in that whirlpool .... actually ... that's a great idea for gameplay. Whirlpool of Doom! Player gets pushed along and takes damage (via a trigger or something) if they get stuck at the end.
Pfft. What do you expect? It is a whirlpool? You don't see whirlpools dragging players around and placing them safely onshore...
But anyway, I was wondering what GG thought. Could it be implemented? It looks possible.
#154
T3D (with Discounts)--= $505.00
SK forest addon-------= $unknown (general consensus afew Hundred dollars)
genre kits------------= $unknown
-----------------------------------
Total cost------------= $800.00 - $1200.00?
(I didn't add some of the other purposed addon's)
After early adopters:
T3D------------------= $1000.00
SK forest addon------= $unknown (general consensus afew Hundred dollars)
genre kits-----------= $unknown
-----------------------------------
Total cost-----------= $1400.00 - $1800.00?
...granted, most of my figures are pure speculation, but the overall price will be much higher than it initially sounds. And no.. I DO NOT consider this to be some kind of marketing scheme or money making plot. I only listed the things that are common in other engines for true comparisons.
I want to be an early adopter of T3D, and have every intention of doing so. But, I need some more specifics on what will come with the engine, and what will not. More specifically, I also need to know how much the mentioned addon's will cost as well since they are common in other engines and are fairly universal in nature.
04/06/2009 (12:53 pm)
Here's my basic concerns:T3D (with Discounts)--= $505.00
SK forest addon-------= $unknown (general consensus afew Hundred dollars)
genre kits------------= $unknown
-----------------------------------
Total cost------------= $800.00 - $1200.00?
(I didn't add some of the other purposed addon's)
After early adopters:
T3D------------------= $1000.00
SK forest addon------= $unknown (general consensus afew Hundred dollars)
genre kits-----------= $unknown
-----------------------------------
Total cost-----------= $1400.00 - $1800.00?
...granted, most of my figures are pure speculation, but the overall price will be much higher than it initially sounds. And no.. I DO NOT consider this to be some kind of marketing scheme or money making plot. I only listed the things that are common in other engines for true comparisons.
I want to be an early adopter of T3D, and have every intention of doing so. But, I need some more specifics on what will come with the engine, and what will not. More specifically, I also need to know how much the mentioned addon's will cost as well since they are common in other engines and are fairly universal in nature.
#155
Just my 2 dollars and 2 cents.
04/06/2009 (1:03 pm)
This is f'ing disgraceful. I can't believe a guy that's dissing the Engine and is creating a lot of negativity is getting more attention than me or someone that wants to know more about what they paid for. And this is not the first time. Like that guy said, it's his opinion. Move on and let him be! This is how the Forums have been for a while now: important questions are left unanswered, yet, there are pages and pages of flaming and spamming going around.Just my 2 dollars and 2 cents.
#156
Brett sais it all - didn't you read the last blog?
You really should read that post - pay special attention to the table with the features by solution (Basic/Pro/Studio)
04/06/2009 (1:21 pm)
@Sorin - read this quoteQuote:The Professional version of Torque 3D will include everything we've talked about thus far, and a lot of what still hasn't been revealed. For example, we're planning to include updates to Physics, new Terrain, a Decal Editor, a Datablock Editor, River / Road / Path tools, and a Material editor in the final release.
The Basic version will not include Web Publishing, Advanced Lighting, or the River & Road Tools, but everything else is in there. It will also be binary only. Again, this version is probably not a good fit for most of you who currently own TGEA. We're offering the big discount during the pre-order period only on Pro, and TGEA owners will not be able to apply any of their TGEA license fee to Torque 3D Basic. Only to Professional.
We've been talking about Genre Kits and Add-ons a bit as well. There's some really good stuff coming there, but we don't have any pricing to announce with that yet. There's the Luma Racing Kit (based on their game "Rev" published on InstantAction, and including some of those production assets). There's a much updated FPS Starter Kit with work from Max Gaming and Apparatus. There's Sickhead's Forest Kit (not sure if that name is final or not) which is *really* cool. It will let you paint down foliage, or just random objects to the terrain or into a scene. I've seen this in action. It's going to impress the hell out of people. There's also Gerhard's expansion (unnamed at present) which will probably include a lot of custom assets and functionality on top of what you've already seen.
The takeaway w/ Genre Kits and most of these Add-ons is that they will likely be Pro-only.
Brett sais it all - didn't you read the last blog?
You really should read that post - pay special attention to the table with the features by solution (Basic/Pro/Studio)
#158
Our world designer just loved a similar feature when I integrated it into TGEA 1.0.x, which allowed him to spawn foliage basing on the material within the spawn range of the replicator.
Saved him so much time when doing gras along pathes etc.
Thats thought one thing I sadly didn't like about the videos: seems like the road tool does not affect ground cover, at least it looked so.
Is this just related to the current version and intend to be "fixed"?
Or would ground cover require a "rebuild foliage" step which logically was not done while moving the path around?
04/06/2009 (3:41 pm)
I like ground cover. Was finally time for it to happen.Our world designer just loved a similar feature when I integrated it into TGEA 1.0.x, which allowed him to spawn foliage basing on the material within the spawn range of the replicator.
Saved him so much time when doing gras along pathes etc.
Thats thought one thing I sadly didn't like about the videos: seems like the road tool does not affect ground cover, at least it looked so.
Is this just related to the current version and intend to be "fixed"?
Or would ground cover require a "rebuild foliage" step which logically was not done while moving the path around?
#159
CAN WE GET SOME ATTENTION ??!!! (am I loud enough :) )
We really need a demo to play with or detailed description of some features before buying the early adopter (even if it's available only to Torque Owners.. damn, even GDC folks got it), good questions answered, otherwise it's like buying a cat in a sack (happened to me with TSE Early Adopter - paid and it was unusable until TGEA 1.7 came out). A lot of ppl supported GG for EVERY engine in a form of buying it (including me) and now we get NADA/ZIP attention (oh, I'm a cry baby) - the Client Relation department did not improve much since, at least code for public is cooked faster nowdays. /rant off
04/06/2009 (5:47 pm)
@Sorin: I double it, man. I keep posting questions about upcoming features and they are ignored, but when someone comes by and drops a troll bomb, the topic is alive... WTF?CAN WE GET SOME ATTENTION ??!!! (am I loud enough :) )
We really need a demo to play with or detailed description of some features before buying the early adopter (even if it's available only to Torque Owners.. damn, even GDC folks got it), good questions answered, otherwise it's like buying a cat in a sack (happened to me with TSE Early Adopter - paid and it was unusable until TGEA 1.7 came out). A lot of ppl supported GG for EVERY engine in a form of buying it (including me) and now we get NADA/ZIP attention (oh, I'm a cry baby) - the Client Relation department did not improve much since, at least code for public is cooked faster nowdays. /rant off
#160
@Alexander: No, you're not loud enough. I don't think there is such a thing as "loud enough." We definitely respond well to "calm enough," and "rational enough." Seriously, I know there are a lot of people anxious to get hands on the real thing (feature spec has been provided already), but we're not going to release a demo until we're happy that it's a really good experience. As mentioned, there are also plenty of performance optimizations needed before most of these demos will run on say, your laptop. So, please be patient, but if you can't be patient, at least don't beat us up for taking our time to make sure we're delivering.
04/06/2009 (6:05 pm)
@Marc: I think you can here Tom say when showing the the Road Editor that while it's only linked up to the terrain texture in the demo video, it can be linked up to ground cover, or perhaps even objects like trees and stuff. I don't know what will ship by default, but it makes sense to be able to configure the Road Editor to remove ground cover as well.@Alexander: No, you're not loud enough. I don't think there is such a thing as "loud enough." We definitely respond well to "calm enough," and "rational enough." Seriously, I know there are a lot of people anxious to get hands on the real thing (feature spec has been provided already), but we're not going to release a demo until we're happy that it's a really good experience. As mentioned, there are also plenty of performance optimizations needed before most of these demos will run on say, your laptop. So, please be patient, but if you can't be patient, at least don't beat us up for taking our time to make sure we're delivering.
Torque 3D Owner Bo Bjering
Only reason to spend money on Kits is simply, for me atleast, to see how its done, thats why if its too expensive its annoying for me (just saying) :)
But, since no price is set, no need to worrie about that yet.