Torque 3D Development - GDC Live Edition
by Brett Seyler · 04/04/2009 (2:31 pm) · 333 comments
Wow...another GDC behind us. This was a big one. I dare say it was GG's biggest ever. Josh Williams and I gave a talk on Thursday titles "The Future of Web Games" which ended up being packed full with standing room only. There was a tremendous amount of interest in both InstantAction Technology and Torque 3D. That went off fabulously. We did some private demos for the big gun studios. The GG booth was jam packed for 3 days straight, and despite bringing a full staff of GG'ers to San Francisco to help, I think everyone was overloaded with excited questions and lots of "when can I get that!!??" The really exciting part for Torque 3D stuff (which was absurdely well recieved) is that we've still only shown probably 50% of what we're working on. Some of you saw Tom Spilman's uStream walkthough of the "South Pacific" demo. That's all been captured and posted for you relentless viewing and scrutinizing below =) Obviously a lot of people put hard work into Torque 3D, but we really owe a lot to Sickhead Games for helping us SHOW rather than tell all of what Torque 3D is capable of.
Tom's gone way above and beyond creating a new terrain implementation (as you'll see in the videos), physics, procedural object placement brushing tools (called "Forest Kit" after the original tech it's based on), and of course, the new Advanced Lighting. It's not just Tom though. Russell Fincher, a great artist, is responsible for making most of this look as good as it does. James did the River and Road tools and Ross worked a lot on bending the World Editor to make all this stuff easily accessible and easier to use. That's just the high points, but they really are a great crew. We're lucky to have their help.
So, in this blog, I'm just posting the Torque 3D relevant footage from GDC. You'll see two demos below, both pretty ground-breaking stuff. There's a lot more on the way. This shakey cam stuff is great, but the video is low resolution and I want to get some straight-from-the-machine captures out to really show how good this all looks and how easy it all is to use.
There truly is a lot more to come. There's a more in depth look at the World Editor, a focus on the Road and River tools, Gerhard's AI and GPU Cloth, Physics, new demos, genre kits, and more. We're also going to try to get a live demo embedded on the website so you can see this stuff for real. All that, and our first build for pre-order customers is just around the corner. Since we opened up the pre-order promotion last week, you guys almost broke our ecommerce system with the flood of purchases. Sorry to those of you who were turned away while we tried to patch things up last week. Hopefully everyone who wanted in got in. Shirts are on their way, and the Torque 3D private forums are alive with anticipation. I can't wait to see what you'll all do with this new technology. I have high hopes :)
I also know that there a lot of unanswered questions from the nearly 500 comments on the last blog. I'm going to re-read those thoroughly this week and try to answer them all. Thanks for you patience and thanks again to everyone whose kept the faith and stuck with us. It's great to know there's still such a huge community behind Torque.
More development blogs to come. This is post #16.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3!
- Post #26 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#282
First shows up when new page has 2 posts.
Must be a bug.
04/13/2009 (5:16 pm)
Something is wrong here, when you post last post (first post next page) it doesnt show up, even when refreshing (F5 ect) the board.First shows up when new page has 2 posts.
Must be a bug.
#283
04/13/2009 (7:18 pm)
aye sorry I must have edited my post as you replied. I was asking because currently I have just about finished a game doc that is pretty detailed and currently over 30 pages and a 6th of the way done. I would like to find some folks to help in the creation, but I'm a college student right now and funding everything I do out of my pocket, and don't know how to make it worth someone's time, so I was trying to find something I could do on my own until I can afford to pay someone. I may just make a flash mock up for now. 
#284
More! More juicy details!
04/14/2009 (6:17 am)
Brett, I hope you aren't listening to the "less blogging" comments. I'm eagerly awaiting the next update. :DMore! More juicy details!
#285
Haha, dood, reason for no blogs is as they said, they quite busy and no blogs until around thursday i belive they said (atleast).
04/14/2009 (11:23 am)
@GarethHaha, dood, reason for no blogs is as they said, they quite busy and no blogs until around thursday i belive they said (atleast).
#286
04/14/2009 (1:50 pm)
Was hoping to get a new one up today, but yeah might be a couple more days. 
#287
:D
04/14/2009 (2:09 pm)
I'm off to a Campaign for Real Ale Festival for a few days, so I reckon I'll be sobering up by ... around ... the 20th, maybe a day or so later, so perfect time (for me) for Beta release.:D
#288
Edit : Okay, topic is not locked or something else freaky thing.
04/15/2009 (9:29 pm)
Okay im going to make a post, simply because it freaks me out noone is talking :PEdit : Okay, topic is not locked or something else freaky thing.
#289
I'm working on your next blog now gents...thanks for the patience...
It's *really* hard with so much stuff we want to show about 95% done. Gerhard has sent me a lot of cool new stuff, some of which you guys don't know about yet, but it's in those final stages of merging where not everything looks correct yet. For example, we've got some crazy cloth stuff, but the lighting isn't 100% yet. Them's the breaks I suppose. Back to mines!
04/15/2009 (9:42 pm)
*tumbleweeds* :DI'm working on your next blog now gents...thanks for the patience...
It's *really* hard with so much stuff we want to show about 95% done. Gerhard has sent me a lot of cool new stuff, some of which you guys don't know about yet, but it's in those final stages of merging where not everything looks correct yet. For example, we've got some crazy cloth stuff, but the lighting isn't 100% yet. Them's the breaks I suppose. Back to mines!
#290
No problem, we got ALL the patience in the world...
aslong as beta comes soon, very soon... (counting the micro seconds), so very soon.. soon.. :P.
Yes, tons of patience around here :).
04/16/2009 (12:28 am)
@BrettNo problem, we got ALL the patience in the world...
aslong as beta comes soon, very soon... (counting the micro seconds), so very soon.. soon.. :P.
Yes, tons of patience around here :).
#291
Are there networked games made with TGEA comparable (in terms of net code etc) to stuff like Team Fortress 2 or other games with lots of players and objects and fast large-outdoor FPS/etc action in them?
How does Torque 3D's networking compare to C4? Or if you went with OGRE and used RakNet or OpenTNL?
04/16/2009 (12:55 pm)
What is the relationship between OpenTNL and Torque 3D? Is Torque 3D's (or TGEA's) networking the same, or the same but very integrated, or somehow better, or somehow worse?Are there networked games made with TGEA comparable (in terms of net code etc) to stuff like Team Fortress 2 or other games with lots of players and objects and fast large-outdoor FPS/etc action in them?
How does Torque 3D's networking compare to C4? Or if you went with OGRE and used RakNet or OpenTNL?
#292
04/16/2009 (12:57 pm)
Also, anyone know stuff about what most big AAA high-performance fast-action-FPS large-outdoor-terrain networked games use? Just build their own on top of UDP, or use Raknet or OpenTNL or HawkNL or something else? Any examples like Halo etc?
#293
TNL is a refactor of the orignal Torque networking which fixes bugs, adds some features (encrypted connections, client puzzles, NAT traversal), and separates it from the rest of the Torque codebase so it can be used independently. Some of these bugfixes and general optimizations have been added back into Torque 3D networking.
04/16/2009 (1:23 pm)
@Peter: Quote:What is the relationship between OpenTNL and Torque 3D? Is Torque 3D's (or TGEA's) networking the same, or the same but very integrated, or somehow better, or somehow worse?Torque 3D uses the same networking as TGEA, but adds some optimizations we've been working on for a couple years for multiplayer racing games. Clark's been the main architect of it, and it's been applied to a few games on InstantAction. We've been referring to those optimizations as "Hi-Fi Networking", but the way you use them is the same it's always been. Networking it always been worked on here because multiplayer is our focus for our own games.
TNL is a refactor of the orignal Torque networking which fixes bugs, adds some features (encrypted connections, client puzzles, NAT traversal), and separates it from the rest of the Torque codebase so it can be used independently. Some of these bugfixes and general optimizations have been added back into Torque 3D networking.
Quote:Are there networked games made with TGEA comparable (in terms of net code etc) to stuff like Team Fortress 2 or other games with lots of players and objects and fast large-outdoor FPS/etc action in them?Check out Godfather II (uses TNL, but not the Torque client), Fallen Empire: Legions, or Marble Blast Ultra (currently on Xbox Live and InstantAction.com).
Quote:How does Torque 3D's networking compare to C4? Or if you went with OGRE and used RakNet or OpenTNL?I have no idea how C4 handles their networking, or the integration of a 3rd party networking library, cannot be an afterthough for the kind of games you're talking about. It's crucial and obviously has a huge impact on game play. I spend a lot of time talking with AAA game devs, and those with the budget for anything seem to either be choosing Quazal or TNL as 3rd party networking libraries. Obviously a lot of companies don't have games with huge networking demands, so going with stock networking with the engine middleware package they choose might be fine. RakNet also seems to come up as a popular choice for developers on a budget, but I'm not sure how many really heavy networked games have used it.
Quote:Also, anyone know stuff about what most big AAA high-performance fast-action-FPS large-outdoor-terrain networked games use? Just build their own on top of UDP, or use Raknet or OpenTNL or HawkNL or something else? Any examples like Halo etc?A lot of them use TNL, many use custom networking, Company of Heroes used Quazal. My guess is that the majority of these games are using custom code. I'm pretty sure Halo (and it's sequels) were all custom and tightly integrated with the Halo engine.
#294
So I wonder why not, after the component-izing of TNL, have Torque 3D use TNL. Or maybe there are some advantages like some Torque3D-specific net-code optimizations? Or is there some reason to have upgrades in TNL that aren't in Torque 3D's networking?
Btw, the website, www.opentnl.org, is currently down I think...
04/16/2009 (7:07 pm)
So it sounds like both (Torque 3D's networking) and (TNL) have roots in the original TGE networking component. But there was a code split, so now they are two separate code bases (but sometimes share bug fixes and general optimizations)?So I wonder why not, after the component-izing of TNL, have Torque 3D use TNL. Or maybe there are some advantages like some Torque3D-specific net-code optimizations? Or is there some reason to have upgrades in TNL that aren't in Torque 3D's networking?
Btw, the website, www.opentnl.org, is currently down I think...
#295
The TNL page on GG.com is being worked on right now, and will still be available under GPL for those interested.
04/16/2009 (7:17 pm)
@Peter: Quote:So it sounds like both (Torque 3D's networking) and (TNL) have roots in the original TGE networking component. But there was a code split, so now they are two separate code bases (but sometimes share bug fixes and general optimizations)?Some of the networking features in TNL simply aren't necessary for most games, so their not included in Torque 3D. Both have roots in the TGE networking code of course. That networking model has held up incredibly well in the past decade, and I expect we'll be using it for many years to come.
So I wonder why not, after the component-izing of TNL, have Torque 3D use TNL. Or maybe there are some advantages like some Torque3D-specific net-code optimizations? Or is there some reason to have upgrades in TNL that aren't in Torque 3D's networking?
Btw, the website, www.opentnl.org, is currently down I think...
The TNL page on GG.com is being worked on right now, and will still be available under GPL for those interested.
#296
For the scenario of a part-time/hobby team... If I get a Torque 3D Pro license, does any 3d model artist have to at least get the Basic version even just to make sure their model imports into the level/map editor and to position 3d models in it (without having to ask me to do it)? What about for the duration of the closed beta period?
Is there going to be a 30-day trial version of the full Torque 3D Basic? And I guess we're still waiting to see an estimated full release date that includes Basic and possibly a public demo or 30-day trial...
Btw, it looked like the TGEA demo is I guess the equivalent of Torque 3D Basic since it has the level editor and scripts but no source code? Is that at all true, or even partly true?
04/17/2009 (5:13 am)
I'm betting someone has already asked this one...For the scenario of a part-time/hobby team... If I get a Torque 3D Pro license, does any 3d model artist have to at least get the Basic version even just to make sure their model imports into the level/map editor and to position 3d models in it (without having to ask me to do it)? What about for the duration of the closed beta period?
Is there going to be a 30-day trial version of the full Torque 3D Basic? And I guess we're still waiting to see an estimated full release date that includes Basic and possibly a public demo or 30-day trial...
Btw, it looked like the TGEA demo is I guess the equivalent of Torque 3D Basic since it has the level editor and scripts but no source code? Is that at all true, or even partly true?
#297
We will begin to sell Torque 3D Basic once we reach the final release of Torque 3D Pro. You won't be able to pre-order it.
There will most likely be a 15-day trial of Torque 3D Basic once it launches.
The TGE and TGEA demos did include the level editors and scripts but they did not include a use license (the right to ship a game). The Torque 3D editors have also undergone enormous improvements and there are a variety of new editors available only in Torque 3D.
04/17/2009 (11:06 am)
Yes, if they are using the World Editor or are scripting they will have to purchase a license of Torque 3D Basic.We will begin to sell Torque 3D Basic once we reach the final release of Torque 3D Pro. You won't be able to pre-order it.
There will most likely be a 15-day trial of Torque 3D Basic once it launches.
The TGE and TGEA demos did include the level editors and scripts but they did not include a use license (the right to ship a game). The Torque 3D editors have also undergone enormous improvements and there are a variety of new editors available only in Torque 3D.
#299
Still to come...
AI from Gerhard
DynamicFX from Gerhard
Cloth from Gerhard
Tour of Undercity
Tour of South Pacific High-res
River and Road tool video demo
Physics
Material Editor video demo
& probably a lot more...
04/17/2009 (7:22 pm)
Sorry guys, no blog this week...but I thought I'd post a nice shot from Undercity that shows some of the fantastic progress we're making on shadow quality.
Still to come...
AI from Gerhard
DynamicFX from Gerhard
Cloth from Gerhard
Tour of Undercity
Tour of South Pacific High-res
River and Road tool video demo
Physics
Material Editor video demo
& probably a lot more...
#300
04/17/2009 (9:05 pm)
Nice screenshot!
Torque 3D Owner Bo Bjering
C++ (you have engine source code in pro) and/or Torque Script as i understand it.
But as and artist, i dont see why you would need programming, if you are only going to make 3d/2d content.
Getting content in editor should be easy, without programming, and it has live update wich should make it much easier to see what you get realtime.