Torque 3D Development - Chris Robertson and Collada
by Brett Seyler · 02/17/2009 (10:19 am) · 84 comments
Last week we introduced the first look at at new tools for Torque 3D with the Torque Launcher. Today, we've got a very big announcement to follow that up. Though we've already talked about this some publicly in IRC and the forums, it's going to radically change Torque's content pipeline.
Chris' Bio
"I'm a software developer from New Zealand. Been using Torque in my spare time for about 5 years. Best known for developing the Milkshape and Houdini DTS exporters.""I'm working on adding Collada support to Torque, so the engine can now load a Collada model in the same way it loads a DTS (ie. as part of a script object or directly from the World Editor). I've also extended TSShapeConstructor to allow nodes, sequences and even meshes to be added, removed and renamed when a DTS or Collada shape is loaded. This is a great complement to the Collada loader, since you can take just about any model at all (such as from Google's 3D Warehouse) and "Torquify" it without having to muck around with importing and re-exporting."
Apparently New Zealand is too small for Google to acknowdege, but it's the land of Mordor and Flight of the Concords, so it's already more famous that Australia (though I am a Russell Crowe fan). Kiwis have better accents too.
Now, we've had this working with Torque for some time now, but this is the kind of feature that's going to take many, many use cases before we're satisfied that it's 100%. To that end, we're inviting everyone to test this functionality with any and all content you can find and give us your feedback. Let us know where we still need to work out some kinks, and by the time we release Torque 3D, it will have the smoothest, easiest, most polished art pipeline out there for the widest number of tools.
How can you get started?
We've created a custom build of TGEA 1.8.1 with the Collada loading functionality wrapped in. This is a binary build, but it should provide everything you need to test out the new content pipeline. You'll find thorough documentation in the root install directory, and we're encouraging you to post your feedback in this forum. You can also read more technical details in this forum post. The Torque Collada Test is set to expire in less than a month (March 13th at 5:00 PM PST) so jump in as soon as possible and start testing!
Download Torque Collada Test
I had a quick run at what we could do with this new build, so I'll share it with you all as a quick walk-though.
Collada loading in Torque is a big deal, but it's one of many pieces that will change the way artists work with Torque 3D. There's a lot more to show. Please take some time and take the Torque 3D Collada Test build for a spin. Help us make Torque 3D even better with your feedback!
More development blogs to come. This is post #10.
Torque 3D development blogs:
- Post #1 - Kickoff
- Post #2 - Apparatus and Warrior Camp
- Post #3 - Luma's racing kit
- Post #4 - Josh Engebretson and Web Publishing
- Post #5 - Pricing and Licensing
- Post #6 - Pricing and Licensing CONTINUED
- Post #7 - Wetness & Precipitation
- Post #8 - Screeen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
- Post #9 - Matt Langley and the Torque Launcher
- Post #10 - Chris Robertson and Collada
- Post #11 - Depth of Field
- Post #12 - Advanced Lighting
- Post #13 - Soft Particles
- Post #14 - World Editor
- Post #15 - Pricing and Licensing ANNOUNCED!
- Post #16 - GDC Live Edition
- Post #17 - River & Road Editors
- Post #18 - Beta is UP!
- Post #19 - Light Rays, Undercity, Material Editor
- Post #20 - Mass Market Hardware
- Post #21 - Beta: Part Deux
- Post #22 - Marching Towards Beta 3
- Post #23 - pureLIGHT
- Post #24 - Lighting, Terrain, and Cloth
- Post #25 - Beta 3! [li]Post #26 - Coming Soon!
About the author
Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.
#62
What are you using to create your Collada files? I played with XSI and downloaded several from Google's 3D resource to play with. Many had collision issues, but I didn't have one that crashed the engine (I had a couple that I thought would, though!)
02/19/2009 (12:30 am)
@FrankWhat are you using to create your Collada files? I played with XSI and downloaded several from Google's 3D resource to play with. Many had collision issues, but I didn't have one that crashed the engine (I had a couple that I thought would, though!)
#63
however poly meshes simple wheeled vehicles have been a problem....
I haven't had any luck with them at all...
currently have no nodes or animations...and still the engine crashes on add
been removing more and more ...started by removing shader info...then texture...then cluster and so on and so on.....
however if I start with a simple poly mesh it works just fine....
I can even get texture info in from there, but it doesn't seem mapped properly right now....I'lll be checking more into it tonight and let you know again later..
just haven't found the point that it allstops working yet....
02/19/2009 (1:53 am)
adding simple cubes from xsi 7.01 worked well with no hierarchy whatsoever,however poly meshes simple wheeled vehicles have been a problem....
I haven't had any luck with them at all...
currently have no nodes or animations...and still the engine crashes on add
been removing more and more ...started by removing shader info...then texture...then cluster and so on and so on.....
however if I start with a simple poly mesh it works just fine....
I can even get texture info in from there, but it doesn't seem mapped properly right now....I'lll be checking more into it tonight and let you know again later..
just haven't found the point that it allstops working yet....
#64
If you can provide samples of files that are loading incorrectly (or crashing), I can either tell you what is wrong (if it is an issue with the file), or fix the loader so it loads the file correctly.
Just about every collada exporter I have encountered so far does things a bit differently, so I'm not surprised there have been some issues at this early stage.
02/19/2009 (3:07 am)
Those that are having problems loading collada files => please start (or contribute to) a thread in the Collada Test forum rather than this blog.If you can provide samples of files that are loading incorrectly (or crashing), I can either tell you what is wrong (if it is an issue with the file), or fix the loader so it loads the file correctly.
Just about every collada exporter I have encountered so far does things a bit differently, so I'm not surprised there have been some issues at this early stage.
#65
Not sure about the textures, I don't think I had any for it. It was a model from either a CD or from a free website.
02/19/2009 (3:09 am)
Just thought I would post a "test" shot. Nothing special, just a model that has crashed several times trying to go to DTS. But I had a Collada file laying around and just dropped it in for the heck of it.Not sure about the textures, I don't think I had any for it. It was a model from either a CD or from a free website.
#66
02/19/2009 (3:18 am)
@Frank: Certainly valid concerns. But out of curiosity, couldn't you still use the old DTS exporter the same way you had in the past? It isn't required to use Collada, but I also agree they are valid concerns with the Collada importer. All in all though I think its a nice move in the right direction. 
#67
J.C. Smith: Actually I was hoping to get a better and smoother workflow with Collada now. Yes I can export from Lightwave with this great plugin from David. But it still is a mess of work. I have to break meshes when transparency is included, I have to break them if a certain polygon count is exceeded, I have to create several layers for LOD and collision and I have to setup the right structure to let'em know what LOD belongs to what submesh.
If I publish a pack with 30-50 models then it takes several days only to setup all the dts meshes. I indeed need more time for DTS as I use for all the other formats we are supporting.
My hope was just to get a relief. But this is my personal problem.
David Montgomery-Blake: As I mentioned, I am using Lightwave and the Collada works fine with engines like Shiva or C4 (even with animations). It is great that XSI files load fine but dae from LW do not at the moment. But Thomas already wrote it in the Collada dev thread. So I dont have to report it again.
02/19/2009 (7:31 am)
Gerald Fishel: Great, I am looking forward to your announcement.J.C. Smith: Actually I was hoping to get a better and smoother workflow with Collada now. Yes I can export from Lightwave with this great plugin from David. But it still is a mess of work. I have to break meshes when transparency is included, I have to break them if a certain polygon count is exceeded, I have to create several layers for LOD and collision and I have to setup the right structure to let'em know what LOD belongs to what submesh.
If I publish a pack with 30-50 models then it takes several days only to setup all the dts meshes. I indeed need more time for DTS as I use for all the other formats we are supporting.
My hope was just to get a relief. But this is my personal problem.
David Montgomery-Blake: As I mentioned, I am using Lightwave and the Collada works fine with engines like Shiva or C4 (even with animations). It is great that XSI files load fine but dae from LW do not at the moment. But Thomas already wrote it in the Collada dev thread. So I dont have to report it again.
#68
02/19/2009 (2:09 pm)
I'll have to get something out of LW to play with since it and Modo are my packages of choice.
#69
*edit: spelling
02/19/2009 (8:16 pm)
I'm wondering if Collada support is more of a marketing thing. Don't get me wrong, I think Collada support is great, but I would have thought FBX support would have been much more practical. I think that most 3D packages have a much more mature FBX export than Collada.*edit: spelling
#70
2/19/09 IRC Hour
02/19/2009 (8:20 pm)
Just to let everyone know, IRC Hour is tonight and one of the topics being discussed is Collada. Check this blog for more details:2/19/09 IRC Hour
#71
I just have one question. If the Torque Launcher becomes the Torque Toolbox, does this mean the Collada Exporter will be named the "Torque Converter"....
Hehe... I kill myself:)
02/20/2009 (3:41 am)
Ok, Michael will kill me for this as I joined the first IIRC tonight and it was great.I just have one question. If the Torque Launcher becomes the Torque Toolbox, does this mean the Collada Exporter will be named the "Torque Converter"....
Hehe... I kill myself:)
#72
Then why don't you do us old and new torque users a favor and remove showtool pro, overlord, and various other old tools from the store so we don't potentially waste our money or cry about not getting updates.
02/20/2009 (8:35 am)
Quote:
3) History and experience has shown that keeping an external tool up-to-date with the engine is nearly impossible (ShowTool, Constructor, etc). I would much rather spend our precious resources on improving the in-game tools and engine rather than on maintenance especially when those improvements could cover the same functionality that the external tool does.
Then why don't you do us old and new torque users a favor and remove showtool pro, overlord, and various other old tools from the store so we don't potentially waste our money or cry about not getting updates.
#73
Thank you and keep it up! :)
02/21/2009 (3:40 am)
I am SO happy to here this is happening. One of my major issues I had with TGE/TGEA was having to have all my models with collision in .DIF format, it was just a plane hassle to me. Now that this is happening, I can't wait for T3D!Thank you and keep it up! :)
#74
Keep it up and drop us a line if we can help in any way.
Ari
02/21/2009 (6:59 am)
The title gave me wood.Keep it up and drop us a line if we can help in any way.
Ari
#75
From your forum topics, it sounds like you're attempting to use Constructor to convert your DTS files to DIF's, which is not really how it works. It will embed the DTS on a brush, but I believe it creates a general bounding box around the DTS model (which you could do and place with the world editor).
02/21/2009 (4:59 pm)
@SamFrom your forum topics, it sounds like you're attempting to use Constructor to convert your DTS files to DIF's, which is not really how it works. It will embed the DTS on a brush, but I believe it creates a general bounding box around the DTS model (which you could do and place with the world editor).
#76
02/22/2009 (3:56 am)
This is superb news since Newtek announced that Lightwave CORE will use collada as it's base format!
#77
I'm still a TGEA beginner. Presently, we are using automated model generation due to scientific purposes. To be more specific, we create roads according to official road construction rules. This is done using an programming environment called MATLAB/Simulink which is capable for VRML exports. These VRML models are presently manually (!!!) piecewise imported to Blender and get their textures. Finally, they are exported as DTS models.
Two points would dramatically simplify our work:
1) Is the COLLADA format relatively easy to handle? As far as I got it, it is XML-based, open-source and hopefully well documented. Thus, having the geometry and the texture files, it should be possible to directly write the model description from my MATLAB environment (MATLAB to XML exports are supported)...?!
2) Shadows! This is (for a beginner) a quite ugly problem. I need dynamical lightning, and the simplest way (from the user's point of view) would be to activate polysoup for the casting and receiving COLLADA models and that's it. Is there any hope that it will be that simple?
Thanks for your answers,
Tobias
02/24/2009 (10:07 am)
Hi,I'm still a TGEA beginner. Presently, we are using automated model generation due to scientific purposes. To be more specific, we create roads according to official road construction rules. This is done using an programming environment called MATLAB/Simulink which is capable for VRML exports. These VRML models are presently manually (!!!) piecewise imported to Blender and get their textures. Finally, they are exported as DTS models.
Two points would dramatically simplify our work:
1) Is the COLLADA format relatively easy to handle? As far as I got it, it is XML-based, open-source and hopefully well documented. Thus, having the geometry and the texture files, it should be possible to directly write the model description from my MATLAB environment (MATLAB to XML exports are supported)...?!
2) Shadows! This is (for a beginner) a quite ugly problem. I need dynamical lightning, and the simplest way (from the user's point of view) would be to activate polysoup for the casting and receiving COLLADA models and that's it. Is there any hope that it will be that simple?
Thanks for your answers,
Tobias
#78
Since this is a TGEA.8.1 build will you be releasing the code to add this functionality to TGEA 1.8.1? I understand it probably would not come out until after Torque 3D AND it would just be what you have here no bug fixes, but for those who are working with the current version to finish a project it might come as a welcome addition.
02/25/2009 (2:21 pm)
To ask the obvious question...Since this is a TGEA.8.1 build will you be releasing the code to add this functionality to TGEA 1.8.1? I understand it probably would not come out until after Torque 3D AND it would just be what you have here no bug fixes, but for those who are working with the current version to finish a project it might come as a welcome addition.
#79
We've invested quite a bit of resources into adding Collada support to Torque and we need to recoup those costs as part of the paid upgrade to Torque 3D.
We decided to base the Torque Collada Test on TGEA 1.8.1 because we aren't ready to show off the rest of Torque 3D just yet with a "live" test.
02/25/2009 (7:00 pm)
No, we will not be adding Collada support to TGEA 1.8.x.We've invested quite a bit of resources into adding Collada support to Torque and we need to recoup those costs as part of the paid upgrade to Torque 3D.
We decided to base the Torque Collada Test on TGEA 1.8.1 because we aren't ready to show off the rest of Torque 3D just yet with a "live" test.
#80
when this comes out ill finnaly be able to import my 3ds files!!
any idea for a release date?...
02/28/2009 (7:55 pm)
THIS IS UNBELEVABLE!when this comes out ill finnaly be able to import my 3ds files!!
any idea for a release date?...
Torque 3D Owner Gerald Fishel
Lol... yeah... but when it's being written by the application, it's not being written by the artist.
I agree that artists have to have a bit more breadth of knowledge than they did 10 years ago, but it's still better (more productive) for everybody if coders code and artists... err... art.
I'm not disparaging the work the GG guys are doing. Collada support is a huge advantage. If nothing else it will help making other tools easier without having to try and figure out the DTS format.
Expecting to be able to go from DCC directly to game engine with Collada is probably wishful thinking for much more than static objects, but having a well-documented intermediate format is very important and a huge improvement over the existing options. The new TSShapeConstructor is also a great improvement.
I've got some pipeline tools in the works that I think will cover a lot of what Frank and Thomas are interested in. Keep an eye out for a blog sometime early next week for details.