TGEA 1.8.1 Now Available
by Alex Scarborough · 02/09/2009 (5:00 pm) · 80 comments
I'm pleased to announce that TGEA 1.8.1 has been released and can be downloaded right now! In our internal testing it's approximately 50% faster than TGEA 1.8.0 and with over 50 resolved issues is significantly more robust as well.
In brief, TGEA 1.8.1 is the best engine we've ever released, and we're thrilled with it. Check out the results we found on two of our most popular engines. A couple things to note before you look at the graphs:
Here's what we found on T3D: big increases all around!
Forge is pretty high-end, but we increased PC-end performance while maintaining frame rates for the Mac.
This release wouldn't have been possible without the community's well written bug reports. Almost every issue resolved in 1.8.1 was brought up by the community. Even though we're done working on TGEA 1.8.1, we're not done making TGEA and Torque 3D even better. Please keep on reporting issues in the TGEA private forums, and we'll try to keep on top of them and ensure that they're resolved. But for now, here's a high-five for you.
It's been a blast working on this release, but it's back to R&D for me. You've already seen some of the R&D work we've done with GFX2 and Brett's posts on Torque 3D, and you'll be even more impressed by what else we have in store :).
Until next time, enjoy TGEA 1.8.1!
In brief, TGEA 1.8.1 is the best engine we've ever released, and we're thrilled with it. Check out the results we found on two of our most popular engines. A couple things to note before you look at the graphs:
- PC Specs: 2.40 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, nVidia GeForce 8600M GT w/256 MB VRAM
- Mac Specs: 2.40 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, ATI Radeon HD 2600 w/256 MB VRAM
- We did not include Mac info for TGEA 1.7.1 because 1.7.1 was Windows-only.
Here's what we found on T3D: big increases all around!
Forge is pretty high-end, but we increased PC-end performance while maintaining frame rates for the Mac.
This release wouldn't have been possible without the community's well written bug reports. Almost every issue resolved in 1.8.1 was brought up by the community. Even though we're done working on TGEA 1.8.1, we're not done making TGEA and Torque 3D even better. Please keep on reporting issues in the TGEA private forums, and we'll try to keep on top of them and ensure that they're resolved. But for now, here's a high-five for you.
It's been a blast working on this release, but it's back to R&D for me. You've already seen some of the R&D work we've done with GFX2 and Brett's posts on Torque 3D, and you'll be even more impressed by what else we have in store :).
Until next time, enjoy TGEA 1.8.1!
About the author
#62
02/11/2009 (11:03 am)
@Alex: Mich showed me a preview screenshot... very impressive work. I always felt that graphical programming languages were lacking, and now I clearly see what was missing. Step aside, Lisp and Forth. We've got a new winner.
#63
02/11/2009 (1:46 pm)
How about a 1.8.2 release with collada or fbx support? 
#64
02/11/2009 (2:09 pm)
Collada support is going to be a new feature of Torque 3D and will not be a part of TGEA 1.8.x. 
#66
I know it was obviously marketing, but marketing != lying. There have been a few instances since the site upgrade that GG has been caught making claims that didn't add up to reality. Perhaps we should work on our truthfulness. :)
It would be easy enough to show a truthful chart and say "not only did we improve performance back to the levels of 1.7.1, but we also improved performance beyond that of 1.7.1."
02/11/2009 (8:39 pm)
@Alex: Quote:
@Joe Melton: Those specific charts were chosen for (hopefully obvious) marketing reasons. We do have results from other demos, particularly the TGE Demo Advanced example project, that show 1.8.0 as being significantly slower than 1.7.1. Even in those cases 1.8.1 is as fast or faster than 1.7.1.
I know it was obviously marketing, but marketing != lying. There have been a few instances since the site upgrade that GG has been caught making claims that didn't add up to reality. Perhaps we should work on our truthfulness. :)
It would be easy enough to show a truthful chart and say "not only did we improve performance back to the levels of 1.7.1, but we also improved performance beyond that of 1.7.1."
#67
If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to contact me directly at alexsc@garagegames.com. If you have done your own testing on similar hardware which shows that our charts are in error I will request that the tests be done again. Until then, I am going to ask that you not call us liars. It is, frankly, offensive.
02/11/2009 (9:11 pm)
@Joe: The charts shown are accurate. Just because TGEA 1.8.0 was slower in some situations does not mean it was slower in all situations. The charts were chosen, among other reasons, because 1.8.0 was genuinely faster in those situations on the hardware which we tested it on.If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to contact me directly at alexsc@garagegames.com. If you have done your own testing on similar hardware which shows that our charts are in error I will request that the tests be done again. Until then, I am going to ask that you not call us liars. It is, frankly, offensive.
#68
That echoes the majority of the comments I heard. Just because you found a couple instances where 1.8.0's performance was slightly above 1.7.1 does not negate the fact that 1.8.0 was generally weaker. Perhaps I should have said "stretching the truth."
Offensive is the way GG has treated a lot of the old hands here lately. Offensive is also how GG initially made claims on the TGEA page in the new site design that TGEA included features that were actually designed and being sold as content packs by community members. Offensive is how GG continually takes credit for the development of all the new features of the engine, when in fact many of those new features were developed by the community. Offensive is taking down all the TGE-related games (I know that's been somewhat alleviated), many of the content packs, etc. when the new site was released, without any advance notice to the people who created those products. When you guys fix that attitude, then come back to me about offensive.
02/11/2009 (9:16 pm)
Quote:
We do have results from other demos, particularly the TGE Demo Advanced example project, that show 1.8.0 as being significantly slower than 1.7.1.
That echoes the majority of the comments I heard. Just because you found a couple instances where 1.8.0's performance was slightly above 1.7.1 does not negate the fact that 1.8.0 was generally weaker. Perhaps I should have said "stretching the truth."
Offensive is the way GG has treated a lot of the old hands here lately. Offensive is also how GG initially made claims on the TGEA page in the new site design that TGEA included features that were actually designed and being sold as content packs by community members. Offensive is how GG continually takes credit for the development of all the new features of the engine, when in fact many of those new features were developed by the community. Offensive is taking down all the TGE-related games (I know that's been somewhat alleviated), many of the content packs, etc. when the new site was released, without any advance notice to the people who created those products. When you guys fix that attitude, then come back to me about offensive.
#69
02/11/2009 (9:25 pm)
I didn't even intend to start an argument. I just thought it a bit disingenuous to include a chart showing 1.8.0 as performing better than 1.7.1 when that was not generally the case. However, it's become par for the course for GG employees to take offense and argue directly with community members lately. 
#70
You can see that as argument, but I see that as good communication flow. In fact, without the discussion that has been happening lately, we might have held off on this TGEA 1.8.1 release until later. So I see a bit of conflict between GarageGames and the community as a healthy way for us to plan and re-adjust our strategies.
02/11/2009 (9:33 pm)
@Joe: Actually, until about October, we were posting less blogs and were just plain less active in the community. We've made a conscious effort to be more involved with you so we can better understand how to take the next steps with our engines. We're more active now than before, and being active means more discussion, which will sometimes leads to disagreement as you have stated, but can also lead to good conclusions between the company and the community. You can't have passion (which comes from our hard effort into these engines and your hard effort into your games) without differing opinions now and again. You can see that as argument, but I see that as good communication flow. In fact, without the discussion that has been happening lately, we might have held off on this TGEA 1.8.1 release until later. So I see a bit of conflict between GarageGames and the community as a healthy way for us to plan and re-adjust our strategies.
#71
My opinion here is most people who felt 1.7.1 was faster then 1.8.0 were only looking at MAX FPS. MAX FPS do not reflect actual performance.
02/11/2009 (9:36 pm)
1.8.0, from all my own in depth benchmarking was faster, the MIN FPS were above 1.7.1's MIN FPS. 1.8.0 also handled scenes that made 1.7.1 'chunky', with 1.8.0 rendering smoothly all the time. 1.8.0's fault was the MAX FPS being nearly always slightly less. My opinion here is most people who felt 1.7.1 was faster then 1.8.0 were only looking at MAX FPS. MAX FPS do not reflect actual performance.
#72
That's because people complain when things get worse for them, not when they get better, so the majority of the comments are almost always going to be negative ones in the long run. 1.8.0 was faster than 1.7.1 for me on most things, but there wasn't much point in making a comment about it. The TGE Demo Advanced is a demo with pretty much every feature enabled at the same time, so it's going to be the most likely demo to suffer a performance hit when they make an architectural change and some bug or other is introduced.
02/11/2009 (9:40 pm)
I'm pretty sure the point of the chart was to show the relative improvement in performance of 1.8.1 vs 1.8.0 and 1.7.1, not the relative improvement of 1.8.0 vs 1.7.1. Quote:
That echoes the majority of the comments I heard. Just because you found a couple instances where 1.8.0's performance was slightly above 1.7.1 does not negate the fact that 1.8.0 was generally weaker. Perhaps I should have said "stretching the truth."
That's because people complain when things get worse for them, not when they get better, so the majority of the comments are almost always going to be negative ones in the long run. 1.8.0 was faster than 1.7.1 for me on most things, but there wasn't much point in making a comment about it. The TGE Demo Advanced is a demo with pretty much every feature enabled at the same time, so it's going to be the most likely demo to suffer a performance hit when they make an architectural change and some bug or other is introduced.
#73
Oh I understand completely that that was the case. I was just pointing out something I saw as being inconsistent with the general attitude among TGEA users. I guess we should just drop the topic. My apologies for being offensive...
02/11/2009 (9:47 pm)
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the point of the chart was to show the relative improvement in performance of 1.8.1 vs 1.8.0 and 1.7.1, not the relative improvement of 1.8.0 vs 1.7.1.
Oh I understand completely that that was the case. I was just pointing out something I saw as being inconsistent with the general attitude among TGEA users. I guess we should just drop the topic. My apologies for being offensive...
#74
02/12/2009 (8:22 am)
So, GG, Intel 965 support was fixed as well in 1.8.1? ;) 
#75
Just wanted to say thanks for fixing the waterblock issue when full reflect is off. This is a big win on low end cards, and it still looks great! Bravo!
02/13/2009 (7:27 am)
@Alex:Just wanted to say thanks for fixing the waterblock issue when full reflect is off. This is a big win on low end cards, and it still looks great! Bravo!
#76
02/26/2009 (6:32 am)
Nice! But what stinks: Where do you get!!!! its been weeks and I can't find it!!!
#77
Of course, you should always try the demo out first. You can access that on the product page as well.
02/26/2009 (8:50 am)
@John: It appears you don't own TGEA yet. So if you want it, first, you need to purchase it from the TGEA page. After you've purchased it, it will appear as under the TGEA Download page in your account. Of course, you should always try the demo out first. You can access that on the product page as well.
#78
02/26/2009 (9:06 am)
FYI, there's no 1.8.x demos up (or accessible) for Windows. If I login with my Mac there's a 1.8.0 Forge Demo and a 1.8.1 Forge Demo for Mac available, but when I get on Windows with Firefox or IE, other than the stuff that I've licensed all that is available is 1.7.0 Forge Demo, 1.7.1 Barricade Demo and TORSION demo.
#79
Because there is no real appreciable difference (minor speed increase) between the 1.8.0 and 1.8.1 Forge Mac demo it ended up being a lower priority to getting the newer demos out (they have to go through QA which is always at a premium =).
The same is true for the Windows Forge and Barricade Demos.
It is still on the "list" to get those updated but there are some other higher priority tasks in front of them.
02/26/2009 (10:54 am)
Hey Gerald,Because there is no real appreciable difference (minor speed increase) between the 1.8.0 and 1.8.1 Forge Mac demo it ended up being a lower priority to getting the newer demos out (they have to go through QA which is always at a premium =).
The same is true for the Windows Forge and Barricade Demos.
It is still on the "list" to get those updated but there are some other higher priority tasks in front of them.
#80
02/26/2009 (10:59 am)
Yeah I thought that might be it, but figured I'd point it out just in case it slipped through the cracks, and it might be why Mr. Mahagi couldn't find it ;)
Employee David Montgomery-Blake
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