Game Development Community

Torque 3D Sidebar - Pricing and Licensing

by Brett Seyler · 01/09/2009 (6:57 am) · 369 comments

static.garagegames.com/static/pg/blogs/jason-hetu/Torque-3D_Development-Blog-Header.png
68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/buffett-rounded-bordered.pngThis is probably the most candid blog post I'll write all year. It's also likely to be quite long. I'm aiming here to communicate a lot of things and I'm hoping they come out in nice fluid arc, but we'll see. It's supposed to be about GG and you, but we might take some twists and turns getting there. I should also warn anyone who's willing to read through this that there are no clear answers in this blog, just thoughts and questions.

While I'm sitting here starting to write this, I'm thinking about how much I like reading Warren Buffett's shareholder letters. I'm certainly not alone in admiring his frank, honest, pull-no-punches style. Buffett's customers are his shareholders, but I notice that very few companies write to their customers this way. What would it be like if they did?

I'm certainly not arrogant enough to draw any kind of comparison between me and the Sage of Omaha, but I really going to try to follow his example in candor and clear communication about business goals.

Most of you probably don't know that I did finance and investment work before joining GG. Though I've always been into games and technology my whole life, it's still a a very weird kind of transition to make from that button up world to the laid back, but hyper-competitve world of a startup software company. Obviously, GG is much more fun, but it's almost demanding in a lot of the same ways finance was for me. You might be surprised how much business is just business, and finding ways to succeed and get more done is universal across those kind of boundaries.

There are a bunch of subjects I'll likely wander around in this post, but the one that bears this post's title is the focus...

RUH-ROH! I can hear the alarm bells going off..."GG is raising prices! I knew it!!!!!!!!!!"

I'll just tear the Band-aid away quickly then. Torque 3D will have a higher price tag than GG'ers are used to from Torque. How much higher? I'm not sure yet to be honest...I've given it a lot of thought, but in the past few months, when I've looked to you guys for feedback, it's always been helpful and understanding, so I figured I'd push my luck and do it again =)

Here are the core principles for GG and Torque that I'm trying to stay true to in working this out:


(1) Make sure that Torque licensing is a sustainable business that allows for signicant reinvestment in the technology--enough to keep Torque at the forefront of modern game engines.


(2) Eat our own dog food. This means we use what we sell, reinforcing the need to reinvest in the technology.


(3) Leverage modern distribution options. This means web publishing, downloadable channels, and any other efforts that upset that status quo in publishing and put more money and control in the developer's hands.


(4) Remain an affordable option for the little guy.



Obviously there's a balance to be struck attempting to serve both (1) and (4). However, there may be less conflict than you'd think. For example, let me talk about (1) a little bit.

Why I'm not worried about Epic or AAA

We made a decision with Torque a long time ago not to compete head to head the top competition in the AAA space. That competitions has emerged in the past decade to be Epic's Unreal engine, first and foremost. While Torque can do a LOT of what Unreal can do, we're executing on a much different business model and strategy...part of it is idealistic, part's pragmatic.

68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/markrein-rounded-bordered.pngThe Unreal engine is driven by the needs of Epic's studio to deliver every year, without fail, on a game with the highest visual impact possible. They succeed, more or less, in doing this with Unreal Tournament and Gears of War. These huge budget AAA games subsidize the enormous cost of developing technology that keeps the games looking better than anything else. By extension, the Unreal engine is percieved as being the best technology at any given time. (Seem like circular logic? Keep reading.)

Sure...there are disturbances in the force. Upstarts like Crytek or Gamebryo steal the limelight now and then, but let's be realistic, Unreal dominates AAA engine licensing. When I say AAA, I mean licensing for use in big budget AAA titles. If you're building a $10-$30M game, you're looking at Unreal first. It inspires confidence in your publisher (guaranteeing more money) and it says to the media and press that "this game is going to achieve a certain visual quality bar that you expect from games made with Unreal." This last part in particular is crucial to the hype-train that gets gamers to pay $60 for a game on release day.

Sound like any other industry you can think of? Come...let's all share in the let down and pretend we didn't just get screwed.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't admire Epic's success in both engine licensing and game development. They've figured out how the game is played and beat everyone under the current ruleset. My hat's off to them. But a lot of this blockbuster-game-driven perception about engines is crap IMO. The dirty little secret in AAA games is that great art, far more than tech, creates visual quality. Even so, "UE = visual superiority => best engine" is the common thinking in the games industry and no one--NO ONE--has been able to break Epic's stranglehold on this section of the middleware market for the better part of decade.

How would you change things if it were your desire to do so?

There are two paths that I see...

You can try to beat Epic at their own game. To do this you'd need a premiere game studio with huge budgets to consistently impress on developers and the press that Unreal is no longer the best performing engine tech around. This means truly high end tech and *really* high end artists that can push the technology's boundaries.

Crytek appears to be trying to execute on this strategy, and they've had some success. id, while a major innovator in game dev technology, appears only casually interested in upsetting the state of Epic's AAA middleware domination. Gamebryo has some good tech and a good marketing / sales team, but no dedicated studio to consistently test the tech and then demonstrate where they stack up next to Unreal or other AAA competitors, so I think they're doomed to fail in AAA. Valve plays a role similar to id. They appear to only casually pursuing licensing of their Source engine.

So that's it... Crytek is the only reasonable candidate to unseat Epic as the AAA engine licensing champion. Why don't I think that will happen? In order to do it, Crytek needs to do it year after year for a sustained period of time, and that demands a lot of money. Epic's makes financially successful games that subsidize the costs of developing their tech. Crytek, to date, has not.

Even for hardcore gamers and the press, it's not just about the good looks, it's also about being on the right platforms, being able to tell a good story in-game. Developers have to find the right gameplay hooks to make a game rewarding. As visually impressive as Crysis is (far more than any UE3 game IMO), the game lacked what was needed to achieve maintream (and financial) success. Minimum hardware requirements that were totally off the charts on the game's release didn't help much either.


68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/aaa-well-served.png

Does it make sense for GarageGames to try to go to head-to-head with Epic in the same fashion? Well, maybe we'd consider it if the AAA engine licensing space were a growth market or currently underserved, but it's neither. AAA engine licensing has been a fairly stagnant market for years now and Epic'c never conceded more than about 50% of the available revenue, so I don't know about you, but doing bloody battle for a slice of a pie that isn't growing seems kind silly to me.

So, if not head-to-head with Epic, where does Torque fit? What's the angle? Well, our goal is not really to "beat" Epic, it's to change the game (in the "meta" sense of the word). We think it's dumb that games cost $60 and that the best selling games published by the biggest publishers all essentially answer to Walmart.


Games should be cheaper.

Gamers should have more variety.

Developers should feel comfortable taking more risks.



None of these are possible without upsetting the status quo. This is why we created Torque and put a $100 no royalties price tag on it in 2001. This is why we created InstantAction.com so that we could build our own audience and connect gamers to developers with no interference from publishers or retailers. Both efforts serve the same goal of making it easier (and more affordable) for developers to take risks.

Torque exists to provide developers (starting with our own game studio) with the means to take these kinds of risks, to create games that can achieve AAA-level visual quality, but with a focus on what makes games fun. We want our studio and you to innovate in ways that matter most to gamers. Portal didn't need next-gen visuals or a multi-million dollare engine to win over gamers. It could have easily been built with Torque. Just the same, Marble Blast Ultra didn't need super-high end rendering. To make the point even clearer, look at Phil Hassey's Galcon. Phil built this game in Python all by himself and it's currently one of the most played games on InstantAction.


68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/portal-bordered.png

We think this evolution, bridging the divide between developers and gamers, enabling greater risk taking at lower cost, is where the industry must go. The faster it gets there, the more Torque makes sense to a wider audience of game developers. As a company, we've always aimed to support platforms and technologies that make this happen faster. I put Steam, WiiWare, XBLA, PSN, id's Quakelive and InstantAction.com all on that list. In fact, without Steam, I doubt Valve could comfortably afford to take the kind or risks they do. We'd all, as gamers and game developers, be much worse off without if they hadn't bucked the system and created the most effective digital distribution platform on the planet. (Go Valve!)

Let's think again about the balance between enabling the little guy, and being in a position to reinvest in Torque and sustain this effort to encourage risk taking in games. Who do we mean by the little guy? Does a hobbyist who never publishes anything serve these goals? Probably not...let's talk about that...

We're building Torque to enable a particular set of developers: those who can persevere though the challenge of game development. This means outfits like Fro Games, Stickman Studios, Sickhead Games, and Tilted Mill to cite some recent examples. In the recent Game Developer profile on TGEA for the Front Line awards, I think they hit the nail on the head.


68.233.5.139/~transfer/Pics/Frontline_Banner.jpg
68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/andy-frontline.png


Are you one of these developers? A lot of you might not know yet. Some of you may not know whether you even want to push that hard or take that much time. You might be happy with game development as a curiousity and have no interest in ever publishing your work. This does not mean Torque is not for you.

Just as Photoshop, Flash, Max and Maya are built for professional use with professional licensees in mind, so is Torque. And just as plenty of amateurs and hobbyists use Adobe and Autodesk tools with no intention of making their work public, so will amateur and hobbyist Torque users. Still, often times, these tools make professionals of people who didn't know if they had what it in them, and we hope Torque does the same.

If we want Torque to effectively serve professionals and that set of developers who have the fortitude and talent to give it a real shot, we need to re-evaluate Torque's license fee. We can't do this effectively for $150 / seat, at least not with Torque 3D. Torque has thousands and thousands of licensees, but developing engine technology is very complicated and very expensive--certainly more complicated and expensive than developing games.

Attaching a $150 / seat price Torque has created a quality perception that does not do justice to Torque's capabilities. GarageGames could *easily* spin out a new business under a different banner and sell TGEA / Torque 3D right next to all the other major AAA engines for hundreds of thousands of dollars per title. Why don't we? Because it doesn't help us with (3) or (4). We'd be quickly assimilated into the tiny space left over by Epic and fighting tooth and nail with everyone else for 3-4 licensing tile deals per year. It wouldn't help us with games. It would disrupt the broken industry model. It wouldn't do much of anything good for games or gamers.

So what price makes sense? What's commensurate with the value Torque provides? Again, I don't know the answer to this yet. It's not $150 / seat and it's not $295 / seat. Perhaps it's $1000. Perhaps it's more. I look at products like Flash ($699) or 3ds Max ($3495) / Maya ($4995) and compare them with Torque. Torque is more complex from an engineering perspective and Torque is in a smaller, more niche market. Both of these factors would argue for a higher price. What about (4)? What's affordable for the little guy? What's going to be the right price that makes it acceptable for developers who ship product to feel comfortable taking risks with a good chance of success? Hard questions to answer.


68.233.5.139/~transfer/brett/pricing.png

I've also noticed that Unity, which appears to be competing more with Flash than game engines, is priced many multiples higher than Torque and yet, it's attracted a license base of primarily hobbyists and amateur developers. Even though Unity now offers a lower priced "Indie" version of its tool that deprecates major features and significant license freedom, for a long time you couldn't buy Unity for less than $1000 / seat. How does that compare with Torque (a much more capable and mature engine technology that actually provides source code)?

There's another consideration that's really important to me, and that's all you reading this. Many of you have been loyal GG customers and Torque users for a long time...in some cases much longer than I've been here myself. You've become accustomed to Torque's low price. Even if it costs GG money in the short term, I don't want to see this community lose is vibrance or engagement because Torque's no longer an affordable technology to stay current with.

While I haven't figured out how it will work yet, I have decided that when Torque 3D is ready for relase, we'll offer it with an option that makes it much more affordable for TGEA owners to make the move. New licensees who don't already own TGEA at that point will pay full price, whatever that ends up being. I should also note that TGEA 1.8 will probably remain an affordable option at the low end throughout 2009, but if we can, we'll provide a better, affordable substitute with Torque 3D...perhaps with some sort of meaningful feature or license delta. This might mean that Indie vs. Commercial changes, or goes away as well.

My ideal outcome is that in mid-2009, everyone who wants to continue working with Torque in the future will be using Torque 3D and sharing resources and knowledge with the rest of the community. This product is the largest investment we've ever made in engine tech and our expectations are high, but better I think to disclose our thoughts and intentions on things like this sooner rather than later. I'm very confident that for those of you who are really engaged in making games, upgrading to Torque 3D will be an easy choice well justified by the value it adds to your talent and dedication.

More sidebars and development blogs to come. This is post #5.

Torque 3D development blogs:



About the author

Since 2007, I've done my best to steer Torque's development and brand toward the best opportunities in games middleware.

#261
01/11/2009 (6:14 am)
I'm a hobbyist and really can't afford any price increase especially in these times. I'm sorry to see GG go in this direction.
It seems to me that it has been the hobbyist that has sustained GG. Now you may have not wanted to be that way but that is the reality.
You should be keeping the price low or even lowering the price. Instead of putting out so many products, how about just a few that are of higher quality. Take a hard look at why so few games are released given the amount of licenses you sell.
We are in a recession that looks like it is only going to get worse, hiking up prices is a huge mistake IMO.
#262
01/11/2009 (7:46 am)
I think that the great strength of Torque is its community!

Raise the price of the product will force many of those who support torque to leave this engine!

This does not allow the diffusion of torque as has happened until now.
This change will cut off many minds that so far have contributed with passion!
If you want to sell a version of torque elite do well!
But I believe that the latest versions of TGE & TGEA should be maintain with affordable price !!
The choice is against the economic recession of the planet! Think about it!

Thank you for Attention !

Andrea
#263
01/11/2009 (8:04 am)
"The choice is against the economic recession of the planet! Think about it!"

I don't think this is the biggest problem. Actually it is even the right time. If the economy goes down the entertainment industry grows up. Many people flee into virtual worlds in these times.

The hobbyiest will not suffer very much if they cannot afford the highest version of T3D. They can stick to TGE(A,B), change to Gamestudio, C4, Irrlicht, XNA, Neoaxis or Ogre. There are alot of alteratives.

The real question is: Will quality meet the right price? I am very interested to find that out.
#264
01/11/2009 (8:23 am)
If Torque 3D will have similar usability as TGB, then I'm willing to pay $1,400 fro it period.

I'm sure GG is not thinking about this but just to make sure, don't abandon TGB it THE 2d game engine in the market.
#265
01/11/2009 (8:27 am)
"The real question is: Will quality meet the right price? I am very interested to find that out."

Yes It's true !! Good observation !!
#266
01/11/2009 (9:04 am)
Brett Seyler said:

Quote:0_o There's that "since IAC" thing again. The whole conspiracy theory thing baffles me.

Let's see if I can explain this phenomonon. Big Corperation == profit only. Forget customers.
This comes from Television and movies. It's how they portray big corps. It's not true, and most people know it, but when something affects their emotions, they tend to forget it's only fiction and take it as fact. In fact, (and reality) big Corp. heads Must think about their customers. Without them, where would the profits for the shareholders come from? duhh.

Just to make sure Everyone knows and remembers, here's what's happened since IAC joined with GG.

Before IAC:
tge 1.4
tgea 1.0.3
tgb (version number?)

Since IAC joining GG:

tge 1.5.1
tgea 1.8.0 (soon to be T3D)
Tx
tgb (newest version?)
iTorque
Torque for xbox 360
and the list goes on. In reality, IAC has been Great for GG and it's community. Better, more stable engines, and More engines to play with. GG and it's community have never had so many choices in How they deploy their games, and where to deploy them too. So Please get off IAC's back.

Josh Engebretson said:
Quote:
I think GG has always been pretty darn good about the prices for engine upgrades.
This is probably the truest sentance to come from this long blog post.

If anyone want's to know where this blog will go, and the way the pricing will be, you need look no further than the iTorque blog post from not too long ago. This one is an exact mirror of that one with few ecceptions.
Some people are going to love the price point, others won't. Some won't mind it, but won't be able to justify the increase at this time, but will probably move up when they can. In the end, Torque is just plain going to get better and better over time.

I'm hoping T3D won't be $1000.00. Even tho I hope to make a game some day, I couldn't justify that price.
At $500.00 I would have to save up for it. (would take me around 6-8 months)
I do not like the idea of stripped down engines for different prices. It wouldn't be simple for GG to maintain, and it wouldn't serve this community. Binary only isn't something that would be good for anyone eccept those who are evaluating the engine.

I'm in the camp of "hobbiest/dreamer". I make demos for my grandson to play in hopes that some day I'll learn enough to actually make a real game. (think myst series genre) (and no, I'm not that old. Was turned into a grandfather while I still had a 5 year old at home)
#267
01/11/2009 (9:25 am)
So, in short, the upshot of "monster-comments-section" is that people are afraid of being priced out.
#268
01/11/2009 (9:30 am)
Brett Seyler, it's funny how you guys are (edit) discussing but no one has answered the very first question in this blog - How will TGEA 1.8 be affected? Will we see bug fixes until T3D comes out? Right now the bug forum has its share of posts, but none have been replied to by a GG rep. Don't get me wrong here, I don't know if the tech guys are at vacation or whatever (they deserve it) but some sort of communication wouldn't hurt.
#269
01/11/2009 (9:52 am)
Random Thoughts:

Currently, the commercial license for TGEA is $1495. So, you would expect the price for T3D would be at least this much.

GG is trying to capture the lower mid-tier developer market. From an indie "trying to get funding" developer POV's, I would think this not only makes sense, as a game engine alternative, but it lowers their overall budget, which will increase their probabilty of getting funded by the M.A.N. (Managerial Asset Network) for being a less risky investment and having more profit potential.

Perhaps GG could have pricing scheme like this:

TGEA - $300
Torque3D - $1500+ (or whatever GG prices it.)

Now, anyone who can afford T3D can buy it outright, make their game and sell it through IA or any other publisher.

The lower-tier customers will have to settle for TGEA.

However, since it will be harder for lower-tier customers to afford the T3D tech, they will need to prove their seriousness by building their game/fully functioned demo in TGEA, then sending their prototype to GG/IA for review. If the game passes review, the customer will get a discount and assistance on T3D to bring their game up to code and sold on IA.

If Nintendo, Sony, Epic and Microsoft can do it, why not GG?

This would allow "hobbyist, tinkerers, dreamers, and students" to still afford Torque and fiddle around with it. For those who with innovative ideas and are serious in finishing their game will make the effort to complete it and apply for the T3D license.

This scheme solves the reoccuring mantra:
Customer: I want T3D at a low price!
GG: Prove it.

Being low on the customer totem-pole (still using TGE 1.42), this allows me to "win the prize" for my efforts in starting a project and completing it to the end.

If you can afford to "fiddle" with T3D, pay what GG is asking and leave it at that. If you can't afford the price, you still can "fiddle" with TGEA, but you got some work to do if you want access to T3D.
#270
01/11/2009 (10:08 am)
Brett Said:
Quote: ... and the majority of this community have not made the move to TGEA.

I suggest that GG figure out why that's true before raising prices and changing license terms for a product that is (from what I've been able to figure out) TGEA 1.8 + some stuff that can't/won't be disclosed right now.
#271
01/11/2009 (11:21 am)
Ive seen lots of us putting out how much it should cost to move on to T3D. Speculating wont help im sure if there to this point there cost/profit has been worked out including the amount of us who will be lost or will
move to T3D.
So if you think what they have dun with TGEA from 2006 to 2008 is a Chit and was worth the wait "cough" "cough" .
then It will come down to who among us will add there credit card info into the slot and click next.
#272
01/11/2009 (12:12 pm)
Quote:Really? Throw it all out huh? As for "late 80's early 90's code," I'm guessing you're probably taking about the networking code that runs multiplayer FPS matches with dozens of players over a 28.8 modem?

Sometimes old code is still around because it is good code. Let's not throw it all out just yet.


I'm not talking about that no. Although making the codebase NOT have to incorporate that would be a good thing. No, I'm talking about the aged code conventions and methodologies used. The type of thing that Clark was doing with the components. It has nothing to do with specific features, it has everything to do with productivity.

The issue is, that as a programmer with limited time, I want to try something, see how it works, iterate it a few times and get on with the next task. Torque has a certain object oriented style that really makes that more difficult than it should be. Modern object oriented design techniques have been created to address many of these issues (because they affected a huge amount of code from the same period).

I'm asking that you do something to increase *programmer* productivity alongside artist productivity. Thats all.

My point with all this, is that you are sticking with what is still legacy code. Some of that stuff is still left over from tribes. Tribes was made many years ago and techniques for writing stable, usable code have moved on. It wont cause the game to look any better, but it might well help people ship more.
#273
01/11/2009 (12:24 pm)
Quote:I stated in a previous post that I would most likely pay the increased price for the indie license, even if it's $1000-$1500, but if "indie" becomes synonymous with "doesn't need all the features of the engine," then it would be a bitter pill to swallow. Too much talk about swallowing...

Granted, I could see this being an option if you were adding features such as a "team editing mode" for missions, or other collaborative features a "commercial" organization might be looking for, perhaps version control and things like that. Those could then be removed for a lower-priced version. However, when it comes down to "if you pay $1000 you get the engine, but you have to pay $15,000 if you want terrain, or shaders, or sound" then it just becomes stupid.
I totally agree with this. Feature deltas would fine by me, as long as you're not talking about features of the engine itself. The engine should remain the same at all price points.
#274
01/11/2009 (12:43 pm)
I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but I just want to be a part of this and belong :)
#275
01/11/2009 (1:24 pm)
@Brett: personally I really prefer the license delta formula instead of the feature delta one...

- Hobbyist/Learning: source code, full features, you can't publish games...
- Indie: source code, full features, you can publish games, earning under XXX,000 $
- Commercial: source code, full features, you can ship games, no earning limits

A limit to
Quote:features such as a "team editing mode" for missions, or other collaborative features a "commercial" organization might be looking for...
would be not really desiderable but acceptable... (sometimes I collaborate with other people...)

The "only binary" option as someone suggested I think is unacceptable (is what you obtain with the demo + members area access), as someone pointed out instead of that you could buy a game that has modding tools...

I suppose a price for the Hobbyist to be not more than $600, maybe for upgrading from TGEA maximum $350 (maybe little less, maybe some more, it depends how much features will be added in respect to current TGEA)...
If you buy a Indie license I think $1500 (upgrading from Hobbyist + $900) can be ok (is supposed you ship a game!)

I hope the final formula will be similar tho that...
My 2 cents... (for the 3rd time! Hey!!! I have to save for the upgrade!!! :-D )
#276
01/11/2009 (1:37 pm)
Stunning to see so many replies here and Brett I'm truly impressed with your efforts to reply to as many comments as possible, I'm with Stefan Lundmark though and would love to know what could be done to improve bug fixes for TGEA 1.8 and for Torque 3D.

Our port to TGEA has been a real headache for me debugging thousands of lines of code to find out what causes some of the bugs, before having to try and hunt down a solution - the TCPObject bug in 1.7.1 is a prime example, it would be worth a lot to me to not have these headaches, either through having more point releases or even a better way to catalogue/search for bugs, i.e. a bug tracking system that is searchable by keywords, component (i.e. tcpobject, rendering, network, etc) would be of great benefit so anything that can be done to help would be great.
#277
01/11/2009 (1:46 pm)
@Andy

I do like the bug system, but hopefully if they implemented something like that, it would be rolled out to all engines, not just T3D.
#278
01/11/2009 (1:54 pm)
Considering you are alienating the VAST majority your market and kicking out all the hobbyist, are you going to be changing your company name and mission statement? For instance maybe instead of Garage Games you could rename yourself to Big Corporate Games Only, and instead of encouraging innovation as you use to, You could re-word the mission statement to "we strive for Safe Profitable hits only!". Honestly, by saying above you as well as most of GG has seem to have lost all focus on what this company use to stand for, great innovative games, and slapped your fan base and market squarely in the face.

Honestly, 1.8 is the most buggy worst build yet, you havent even taken the time to fix many of the 1.7 bugs and you expect us to PAY for not only new features but bug fixes from now on for TGEA? And then want everyone to PAY to upgrade to TGB when it comes out. Keep dreaming, we have purchased 8 TGE+TGEA engine licenses to date, multiple content packs, and more. We have been around since the earliest days or TGE in various groups. Most of our team were TGEA Early Adopters and were promised all sorts of miracle things then with a new Garage Games engine known as TSE that made it vastly better than TGE. Over the YEARS we have kept vigilant waiting for Garage Games to come through and fix things (as well as do a ton of fixing on our own). Amazing as it sounds however, every time we check instead of taking responsibility for fixing there products in updates, they are introducing and pushing new products and new features that are "Better" than the old one.

Now as TGEA's end draws near we all know how it has turned out. Now you want us to repeat the process again by introducing yet another engine into the bloated Garage Games product line or pay for bug fixes to stuff Garage Games never got right in the first place with TGEA? O wait no you want us to go away because we are hobbyist!

Despite a long three year development cycle, countless hours of work and money, We have always pledged (and will be) releasing our games for free because we love making games and got fed up with everyone being obsessed with profits, and rushing POS sequels (or engine updates) and "Safe games" out, instead of pushing for innovation in the market and ensuring a quality product. As a history lesson this is what Garage Games use to stand for, empowering enthusiast with the tools they need to make innovative games because they love to. By pushing out us the hobbyist, the true living spirit of what Garage Games stood for so very long (AND 90% of your market) then you are doomed to failure.


We will not be buying another Garage Games Product, we will NEVER recommend a Garage Games Product. Have fun digging your companys grave
#279
01/11/2009 (1:59 pm)
Double Post
#280
01/11/2009 (2:12 pm)
@Jesse, the true living spirit of GarageGames was to empower independent developers to make games. A lot of hobbyists had the idea to make free games, but how many free Torque games have actually been released by hobbyists to help thin out the "safe games"? I can't say that I know of any, though there may very well be a few I suppose. On the other hand, many innovative low-cost games have been put out by independent developers that don't qualify as "Big Corporate Games Only", but which have some budget to work with, and a plan.

I'd say the best way to bring about more innovative games is to cater to the latter market, rather than the former market, since the latter market are the ones producing games.

Though it remains to be seen how much more you can squeeze out of them and still leave them enough to finance the rest of the game.