TSE Milestone 4
by Brian Ramage · 08/17/2006 (7:55 pm) · 88 comments
There are a lot of questions being asked about TSE with the announcement of Torque X and MS4 coming up fast. I thought I'd answer some of them here to clear things up a bit and also show some pretty orc pictures ;)
Thanks to John Kabus for all the lighting work he did to make this possible. Also thanks to Joe Maruschak and Mark McCoy for all painstaking tweaking to the Orc's textures and animations for this demo. Tim Aste has done some pretty cool work with his characters, check up with him for some more screenshots and video of his work. Pat Wilson and Ben Garney also jumped in for some last minute code tweaks on the Orc demo. Hope to get it to y'all soon.
On to the Q/A:
- When is MS4 release?
Sometime soon, not this week though.
- What's going on with TSE after MS4?
Like other launches, we will go through a period of bug fixes based on community feedback and push out some release candidates until we feel it's ready for a full 1.0 release.
- September release?
We're hoping that we'll be ready for a 1.0 release in September. It depends on how solid it's looking. We're not going to release in September unless it's really ready to go.
- Is the TLK included with TSE?
Yes, the TLK is fully integrated with TSE and has some new features like hardware shadowing (including self-shadowing), dynamic lighting with specular and normal mapping support, and HDR/DRL solutions. John can fill you in on the complete rundown of all the cool new features.
- What's going on with OpenGL and fixed function support?
OpenGL will not be supported in the 1.0 release, but we will have OpenGL and fixed function support further down the road.
- What's the status on Atlas?
Atlas is near to becoming "runtime feature complete" that means you'll have everything you need to run Atlas and import terrain from tools like l3dt. Full editor support will not be in for Atlas however in the 1.0 release. Please note that legacy (TGE) terrain runs just fine in TSE, incuding all the editing options. I believe it outperforms TGE's terrain as well, but I haven't actually done metrics to prove it.
- What's the deal with TSE/Torque X?
They are completely separate products with different feature sets. We'll be announcing more information about Torque X when it's closer to release. Torque X is completely C# managed code however, so if you are looking for a C++ solution with shaders, TSE is the only way to go. And of course, you can still go to the 360 with the TSE path with TSE 360.
- Will TSE be standalone when final?
Yes, TSE will be its own product, you won't need to purchase TGE in order to buy TSE. Yes, the price will go up.
- If I buy Early Adopter, will I have to pay extra for updates?
If you buy the Early Adopter version of TSE now, you will not have to pay anything for the full 1.0 update or bugs fixes from then on.
- Are we going to see some new demos we can download?
Yes, although when is a bit uncertain. We should be showing some of the new stuff at PAX coming up next weekend though, so stop on by to check them out.
- Will TSE ship with the Legions demo?
Probably not anytime soon no.
- What's going on with that forest picture on the DSOTD?
We might have an exciting announcement regarding that in the near future ;)
Thanks to John Kabus for all the lighting work he did to make this possible. Also thanks to Joe Maruschak and Mark McCoy for all painstaking tweaking to the Orc's textures and animations for this demo. Tim Aste has done some pretty cool work with his characters, check up with him for some more screenshots and video of his work. Pat Wilson and Ben Garney also jumped in for some last minute code tweaks on the Orc demo. Hope to get it to y'all soon.
On to the Q/A:
- When is MS4 release?
Sometime soon, not this week though.
- What's going on with TSE after MS4?
Like other launches, we will go through a period of bug fixes based on community feedback and push out some release candidates until we feel it's ready for a full 1.0 release.
- September release?
We're hoping that we'll be ready for a 1.0 release in September. It depends on how solid it's looking. We're not going to release in September unless it's really ready to go.
- Is the TLK included with TSE?
Yes, the TLK is fully integrated with TSE and has some new features like hardware shadowing (including self-shadowing), dynamic lighting with specular and normal mapping support, and HDR/DRL solutions. John can fill you in on the complete rundown of all the cool new features.
- What's going on with OpenGL and fixed function support?
OpenGL will not be supported in the 1.0 release, but we will have OpenGL and fixed function support further down the road.
- What's the status on Atlas?
Atlas is near to becoming "runtime feature complete" that means you'll have everything you need to run Atlas and import terrain from tools like l3dt. Full editor support will not be in for Atlas however in the 1.0 release. Please note that legacy (TGE) terrain runs just fine in TSE, incuding all the editing options. I believe it outperforms TGE's terrain as well, but I haven't actually done metrics to prove it.
- What's the deal with TSE/Torque X?
They are completely separate products with different feature sets. We'll be announcing more information about Torque X when it's closer to release. Torque X is completely C# managed code however, so if you are looking for a C++ solution with shaders, TSE is the only way to go. And of course, you can still go to the 360 with the TSE path with TSE 360.
- Will TSE be standalone when final?
Yes, TSE will be its own product, you won't need to purchase TGE in order to buy TSE. Yes, the price will go up.
- If I buy Early Adopter, will I have to pay extra for updates?
If you buy the Early Adopter version of TSE now, you will not have to pay anything for the full 1.0 update or bugs fixes from then on.
- Are we going to see some new demos we can download?
Yes, although when is a bit uncertain. We should be showing some of the new stuff at PAX coming up next weekend though, so stop on by to check them out.
- Will TSE ship with the Legions demo?
Probably not anytime soon no.
- What's going on with that forest picture on the DSOTD?
We might have an exciting announcement regarding that in the near future ;)
About the author
#42
Thanks for clearing it up, John.
08/18/2006 (3:59 pm)
Quote:
I think a lot of people are misreading previous comments - based on the threads I've seen and the comments made by GG only TGE will require an upgrade. And that is after 6+ years of free updates and at least 5 versions (that I've been around for). TSE is only just making it out of EA, why would you need to pay for an upgrade?
Thanks for clearing it up, John.
#43
08/18/2006 (4:03 pm)
@Tim: Thanks for posting the image. I think this TLK editor is awesome! Better than modifying all by hand. Your project looks interesting by the way. Did you post an IOTD?
#44
It's a demo level that we will be releasing to promote a weapon pack that we're working on. The purpose of this is so that people can try before they buy, within a Torque environment.
I'm not the most exciting Torque user however feel free to browse my profile if you require any information about my adventures with Torque.
- Tim
08/18/2006 (4:16 pm)
That screenshot is not from a game as such. It's a demo level that we will be releasing to promote a weapon pack that we're working on. The purpose of this is so that people can try before they buy, within a Torque environment.
I'm not the most exciting Torque user however feel free to browse my profile if you require any information about my adventures with Torque.
- Tim
#45
08/18/2006 (5:19 pm)
hmm, no legions demo with tse 1.0 and not anytime soon?? crap what a letdown
#46
@Stefan - I'm 90% sure we're going to have OpenGL in TSE. That's the way it's looking right now, but every time I say something like this, things shift internally, so I can't go 100%. It is a pretty high priority though.
@Geoff - It's a matter of getting the time to clean it up and get it running properly. If we can't get the time, then maybe it will be released as a resource or a standalone project or something. Talk to Tim Aste, he's the man with Legions.
@Martin - Not sure what the status of Atlas is in dedicated server mode, I'll talk to Ben and we can run some tests.
08/18/2006 (6:11 pm)
@Kory - yes, the core game code of TSE is pretty much exactly the same as TGE, so the networking, scripting, simulation, object structures, etc. is all the same. It's mostly the rendering that has been changed around, so ya most of that book will be relevant.@Stefan - I'm 90% sure we're going to have OpenGL in TSE. That's the way it's looking right now, but every time I say something like this, things shift internally, so I can't go 100%. It is a pretty high priority though.
@Geoff - It's a matter of getting the time to clean it up and get it running properly. If we can't get the time, then maybe it will be released as a resource or a standalone project or something. Talk to Tim Aste, he's the man with Legions.
@Martin - Not sure what the status of Atlas is in dedicated server mode, I'll talk to Ben and we can run some tests.
#47
08/18/2006 (7:23 pm)
Thank you Brian
#48
Brain = Brian. Anyway, both is right. Brian = Mr. Brain ;-)
08/18/2006 (7:28 pm)
Nice typo Kory :-) Brain = Brian. Anyway, both is right. Brian = Mr. Brain ;-)
#49
08/18/2006 (7:30 pm)
Lol sorry Brian 
#50
Thanks and kudos for the great work!
08/18/2006 (11:14 pm)
Quick question: is it still true that TGE licensees will be able to purchase a TSE license for $195 after the 1.0 release?Thanks and kudos for the great work!
#51
08/18/2006 (11:25 pm)
Geoff, Legions in whatever form it's in, is still seperate from TSE, we have some developments we are working on, but won't be making any announcements this Summer on anything.
#52
08/19/2006 (1:18 am)
There's no way to say this without soundin a bit like a prick, but 99.9% of me feels it should be said. Can you read? I see answers to questions posted over and over again yet people keep asking the questions. It's been said many, MANY times that TSE WILL go UP in price when it's released. It doesn't matter what license you already have, it WILL cost more, just like TGB now costs more that it's released.
#53
There is lack of clarity in the GG statements concerning the final price of TSE. We have always known that the product would go up in price for v1.0: by $45. The website states that the early adopter's price, $150 for TGE owners, would go up so that TGE licensees would pay $195, and it further states that the v1.0 product will be available standalone for $295. What I would like to know is whether the final price is going to go up more than that. That's all I need to know.
If so, I will be more inclined to go ahead and pay for the EA release, even though I do not own a Windows PC and would have to wait til a version of TSE is released that will run on Macs.
If not, then I will wait.
08/19/2006 (2:53 am)
I can read.There is lack of clarity in the GG statements concerning the final price of TSE. We have always known that the product would go up in price for v1.0: by $45. The website states that the early adopter's price, $150 for TGE owners, would go up so that TGE licensees would pay $195, and it further states that the v1.0 product will be available standalone for $295. What I would like to know is whether the final price is going to go up more than that. That's all I need to know.
If so, I will be more inclined to go ahead and pay for the EA release, even though I do not own a Windows PC and would have to wait til a version of TSE is released that will run on Macs.
If not, then I will wait.
#54
08/19/2006 (2:55 am)
Besides, I wasn't asking you. If GG wants to avoid committing themselves with a definitive statement for now, that's fine by me. I would just like clarification, if possible. 
#55
As I read this, editing for Atlas 2 terrain will not be feature complete, but at least some editing will be possible. Is this correct? I know that there are many editing features in the TGE version of the editor that are not currently present in the TSE version, but placement of objects, for example, is. To be very specific, since we are working with very large terrains will the editor have at least the minimal ability to adjust the height of specific portions of the terrain?
I say this becuase the alternative is not practical for development. It would require that you preserve your previous L3DT rendering of the terrain and convert from L3DT to a greyscale heightmap, manually locate a single point on a potentially extremely large terrain, edit the hieght of that point and surrounding points manually using something like photoshop, reimport the terrain into L3DT, regenerate the entire terrain again with lighting, watermaps, and terrain textures for the whole terrain, re-export the lightmap, heightmap, and texture file from L3DT, import and convert all three into a new Atlas terrain file and go see if your change was correct.
I can live without built in fractal terrain generators in the terrain editor and many of the other niceties like multiple texture layers painted on the terrain, but I need to be able to raise and lower the height of specific pieces of the real estate and save my changes in a clean fashion. Will this be possible?
08/19/2006 (12:53 pm)
"Full editor support will not be in for Atlas however in the 1.0 release" As I read this, editing for Atlas 2 terrain will not be feature complete, but at least some editing will be possible. Is this correct? I know that there are many editing features in the TGE version of the editor that are not currently present in the TSE version, but placement of objects, for example, is. To be very specific, since we are working with very large terrains will the editor have at least the minimal ability to adjust the height of specific portions of the terrain?
I say this becuase the alternative is not practical for development. It would require that you preserve your previous L3DT rendering of the terrain and convert from L3DT to a greyscale heightmap, manually locate a single point on a potentially extremely large terrain, edit the hieght of that point and surrounding points manually using something like photoshop, reimport the terrain into L3DT, regenerate the entire terrain again with lighting, watermaps, and terrain textures for the whole terrain, re-export the lightmap, heightmap, and texture file from L3DT, import and convert all three into a new Atlas terrain file and go see if your change was correct.
I can live without built in fractal terrain generators in the terrain editor and many of the other niceties like multiple texture layers painted on the terrain, but I need to be able to raise and lower the height of specific pieces of the real estate and save my changes in a clean fashion. Will this be possible?
#56
@David D - we are aware that not having editing controls for Atlas is a pain in the ass. We're going to have it in there ASAP, but unfortunately it's not going to make it in time for the 1.0 release. Full editing support (same as TGE) is available for legacy terrain.
08/21/2006 (6:09 pm)
@David M - I'm not sure what upgrade pricing will be available for TSE after 1.0. I imagine there will be some kind of discount, but I don't know what it is.@David D - we are aware that not having editing controls for Atlas is a pain in the ass. We're going to have it in there ASAP, but unfortunately it's not going to make it in time for the 1.0 release. Full editing support (same as TGE) is available for legacy terrain.
#57
08/21/2006 (6:46 pm)
Thanks Brian! I'll probably just wait and see. I'm sure whatever the price is, it'll be well worth it.
#58
@GG: Gratz on the milestone and upcoming release.
I'll be purchasing when TSE supports OpenGL.
08/21/2006 (7:07 pm)
@Brian Ramage: Thanks for being honest about the 90% possibility of supporting OpenGL as I had a feeling it wasn't 100% certain.@GG: Gratz on the milestone and upcoming release.
I'll be purchasing when TSE supports OpenGL.
#59
08/21/2006 (7:19 pm)
@Brian: Does MS 4 support shaderized particles?
#60
I need a cross platform solution, but love TSE.
I can use TGE +this+that, etc... but TSE on Mac and Linux...
who wouldn't want that?
Please, please, please, please, please...
I need it within one year... no pressure... just DON'T drop it from the plan
Cheers!
:)
Sumner
08/21/2006 (9:11 pm)
I only wish to beg and plead for OpenGL in TSEI need a cross platform solution, but love TSE.
I can use TGE +this+that, etc... but TSE on Mac and Linux...
who wouldn't want that?
Please, please, please, please, please...
I need it within one year... no pressure... just DON'T drop it from the plan
Cheers!
:)
Sumner
Torque Owner Tim Heldna
It's not that exciting =)
It's just a GUI that lets you add and adjust lights within the mission editor.
Here's what it looks like in TGE TLK