Torque Game Builder goes Feature Complete!
by Justin DuJardin · 05/09/2006 (9:00 pm) · 40 comments
Torque GameBuilder goes Feature Complete
That's right, you heard it here first, Torque GameBuilder has gone feature complete with the release of Beta3. This has many far reaching implications and is very exciting for us as we're finally able to guarantee that there will be no changes to the engine aside from bug fixes from this point on until release! But you're probably wondering--What does feature complete mean to ME?! I'm so glad you asked!
Tool Scripts unveiled!
With TGB going feature complete and us ramping up for a final release in the near future we've decided to go ahead and release the script source to the LevelBuilder and other tools that come with TGB. The reason we've decided to go this route even though the scripts are still a bit messy in places and need to be cleaned up before the final release is that we understand how invaluable more eyes on any piece of our code can be. Previously we withheld the scripts to the tools as they were in huge flux, but with feature complete that is no longer true.
Codebase Stabilized
Over the course of development of T2D/TGB we have had some users that are not willing to continually update their SDK's with the newest changes that we've made since until now they were unpredictable as far as how widespread their effect on your games would be. This is also no longer a concern as our codebase has been locked down from features and changes to core functionality. We are now focused on only resolving existing bugs in the current setup, which may include tiny UI tweaks if necessary and fixing functionality that may be acting a bit wonky or improperly. What this won't include are any changes to the script methods or functions that you call, or any way your game interacts with the engine.
What's Changed?
Since our GDC Beta2 release much has changed and been improved upon. While there are some things that should be noted, there are so many fixes and improvements that I'm just going to list some of the more interesting changes.
Bug Fixes and Improvements
We were able to parse a good amount of the awesome feedback that you all offered up in our forums about Beta2 and have tried to address the most serious concerns as we were able to understand them. With this Beta3 we have fixed all of the annoying problems that were in Beta2. The enormous number of fixes in this build are not really listable here so i've provided a short list below. They are all made possible of course by the great team working on TGB.
Animation Builder
Click Here To Enlarge
Matt Langley was able to identify and resolve all known issues with this tool as well as adding some fantastic UI improvements to ease it's use.
ImageMap Builder
Click Here To Enlarge
Matt Langley also (while simultaneously writing huge comprehensive tutorials!) was able to overhaul the ImageMap Builder to support operations such as zooming and border/background color for specifying proper contrast on white or lighter images.
Particle Quick Editing
Click Here To Enlarge
Adam Larson was able to expand the functionality of the QuickEdit to support the necessary fields for emitter objects. The Particle QuickEdit support is now functional with the exception of adding/removing emitters. The script is included to support this but it is commented out due to finding a serious bug in the particle management code that made it unstable to add and remove emitters dynamically. This issue has been marked high priority and will be hot-fixed before the Beta is complete.
RSS Update News - In Engine
Click Here To Enlarge
Beta3 will periodically check for official GarageGames RSS news and notify you at the top right of your screen when there are news items available. By clicking on the RSS button near the 'New News!' text, you will be presented with the News reading dialog with links to the full articles on our site.
Project Resources!
After the Beta2 release and with all of the community art bounties that we've got out there, it occurred to us that we really needed to have a simple way for our users to be able to get 'art packs' from each other and us for use in their games. We've included two art resource examples with Beta3 and they're easily configured by a convenient in-game UI.
When you open up Beta3 and create a new project you will be presented with a screen that looks similar to the following. You may notice that you have no game assets with which to work :(
Click Here To Enlarge
Fear Not as the Project Resource manager is here to help! Simply by navigating the menu system to Project->Resources or simply by hitting the shortcut key Ctrl-R you will be presented with a dialog that looks similar to the following, which lists all the resources that TGB currently knows about 'Available Resources' and all the ones that your project is currently using 'Current Project Resources'.
Click Here To Enlarge
If you select a resource, in this example I'm using the 'puzzleArt' resource and then hit 'Add to Project' it will be moved over to your Current Project Resources list.
Click Here To Enlarge
At this point if you hit the Save button you will notice your Object library on the right side now has a large set of Art that could be used to make a Puzzle Game.
Click Here To Enlarge
Click Here To Enlarge
At this point you're ready to go making your puzzle game. Simply drag the elements from your object library to your level and you're all set. Below is my modest attempt at a puzzle level using the puzzleArt resource!
Click Here To Enlarge
You can also do the opposite of this to remove art resources from your game!
Proper Bug Reporting
As we gear up to finalize the release we'd like to ask that in the report bugs private forum you only post bugs that impede existing functionality from properly operating. As always, feature requests and idea for improvement are encouraged, but there are forums for those separately. In the past there has been some spill over and we'd just ask that you be mindful of which forum you're posting in!
Cheers and Enjoy the Beta!
-Justin
Edit : The Mac and Linux builds will be available as soon as they are ready. More to come on that soon!
That's right, you heard it here first, Torque GameBuilder has gone feature complete with the release of Beta3. This has many far reaching implications and is very exciting for us as we're finally able to guarantee that there will be no changes to the engine aside from bug fixes from this point on until release! But you're probably wondering--What does feature complete mean to ME?! I'm so glad you asked!
Tool Scripts unveiled!
With TGB going feature complete and us ramping up for a final release in the near future we've decided to go ahead and release the script source to the LevelBuilder and other tools that come with TGB. The reason we've decided to go this route even though the scripts are still a bit messy in places and need to be cleaned up before the final release is that we understand how invaluable more eyes on any piece of our code can be. Previously we withheld the scripts to the tools as they were in huge flux, but with feature complete that is no longer true.
Codebase Stabilized
Over the course of development of T2D/TGB we have had some users that are not willing to continually update their SDK's with the newest changes that we've made since until now they were unpredictable as far as how widespread their effect on your games would be. This is also no longer a concern as our codebase has been locked down from features and changes to core functionality. We are now focused on only resolving existing bugs in the current setup, which may include tiny UI tweaks if necessary and fixing functionality that may be acting a bit wonky or improperly. What this won't include are any changes to the script methods or functions that you call, or any way your game interacts with the engine.
What's Changed?
Since our GDC Beta2 release much has changed and been improved upon. While there are some things that should be noted, there are so many fixes and improvements that I'm just going to list some of the more interesting changes.
Bug Fixes and Improvements
We were able to parse a good amount of the awesome feedback that you all offered up in our forums about Beta2 and have tried to address the most serious concerns as we were able to understand them. With this Beta3 we have fixed all of the annoying problems that were in Beta2. The enormous number of fixes in this build are not really listable here so i've provided a short list below. They are all made possible of course by the great team working on TGB.
Animation Builder
Click Here To EnlargeMatt Langley was able to identify and resolve all known issues with this tool as well as adding some fantastic UI improvements to ease it's use.
ImageMap Builder
Click Here To EnlargeMatt Langley also (while simultaneously writing huge comprehensive tutorials!) was able to overhaul the ImageMap Builder to support operations such as zooming and border/background color for specifying proper contrast on white or lighter images.
Particle Quick Editing
Click Here To EnlargeAdam Larson was able to expand the functionality of the QuickEdit to support the necessary fields for emitter objects. The Particle QuickEdit support is now functional with the exception of adding/removing emitters. The script is included to support this but it is commented out due to finding a serious bug in the particle management code that made it unstable to add and remove emitters dynamically. This issue has been marked high priority and will be hot-fixed before the Beta is complete.
RSS Update News - In Engine
Click Here To EnlargeBeta3 will periodically check for official GarageGames RSS news and notify you at the top right of your screen when there are news items available. By clicking on the RSS button near the 'New News!' text, you will be presented with the News reading dialog with links to the full articles on our site.
Project Resources!
After the Beta2 release and with all of the community art bounties that we've got out there, it occurred to us that we really needed to have a simple way for our users to be able to get 'art packs' from each other and us for use in their games. We've included two art resource examples with Beta3 and they're easily configured by a convenient in-game UI.
When you open up Beta3 and create a new project you will be presented with a screen that looks similar to the following. You may notice that you have no game assets with which to work :(
Click Here To EnlargeFear Not as the Project Resource manager is here to help! Simply by navigating the menu system to Project->Resources or simply by hitting the shortcut key Ctrl-R you will be presented with a dialog that looks similar to the following, which lists all the resources that TGB currently knows about 'Available Resources' and all the ones that your project is currently using 'Current Project Resources'.
Click Here To EnlargeIf you select a resource, in this example I'm using the 'puzzleArt' resource and then hit 'Add to Project' it will be moved over to your Current Project Resources list.
Click Here To EnlargeAt this point if you hit the Save button you will notice your Object library on the right side now has a large set of Art that could be used to make a Puzzle Game.
Click Here To EnlargeClick Here To EnlargeAt this point you're ready to go making your puzzle game. Simply drag the elements from your object library to your level and you're all set. Below is my modest attempt at a puzzle level using the puzzleArt resource!
Click Here To EnlargeYou can also do the opposite of this to remove art resources from your game!
Proper Bug Reporting
As we gear up to finalize the release we'd like to ask that in the report bugs private forum you only post bugs that impede existing functionality from properly operating. As always, feature requests and idea for improvement are encouraged, but there are forums for those separately. In the past there has been some spill over and we'd just ask that you be mindful of which forum you're posting in!
Cheers and Enjoy the Beta!
-Justin
Edit : The Mac and Linux builds will be available as soon as they are ready. More to come on that soon!
#22
05/10/2006 (1:04 pm)
Totally Awesome!!!
#23
Re : Physics changes - We are feature locked on this product and have received huge feedback that people are absolutely tired of re-working already functioning parts of their games to support large, sweeping changes to the engine. We will not be making any changes to the physics before release--unless of course it is to fix functionality that is not acting properly.
[Rant]
You know, I'm not sure if you all are aware, and so I'd like to clear this up--we are but human at GarageGames.
As some of you may be aware, being human limits us to only being able to physically work 1 80-100 hour week per developer. We gladly do it because we love our community and want to provide you with the best possible product that we can.
However, responses like this, after having upset loved ones to stay late at the office for the sole purpose of getting you a release ready sooner rather than later, really kind of grinds my gears.
We try to give and give, because we value our community more than anything, but if I'm not being too bold, could you please refrain from demanding a mile every time we slave to give you an inch?
[/Rant]
Edit : Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback thus far, we're doing our best to do right by you all as best we can :)
Thanks and Cheers,
-Justin
05/10/2006 (2:14 pm)
Re : Full Networking support - We have full networking support as outlined in the product page for TGB.Re : Physics changes - We are feature locked on this product and have received huge feedback that people are absolutely tired of re-working already functioning parts of their games to support large, sweeping changes to the engine. We will not be making any changes to the physics before release--unless of course it is to fix functionality that is not acting properly.
[Rant]
You know, I'm not sure if you all are aware, and so I'd like to clear this up--we are but human at GarageGames.
As some of you may be aware, being human limits us to only being able to physically work 1 80-100 hour week per developer. We gladly do it because we love our community and want to provide you with the best possible product that we can.
However, responses like this, after having upset loved ones to stay late at the office for the sole purpose of getting you a release ready sooner rather than later, really kind of grinds my gears.
We try to give and give, because we value our community more than anything, but if I'm not being too bold, could you please refrain from demanding a mile every time we slave to give you an inch?
[/Rant]
Edit : Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback thus far, we're doing our best to do right by you all as best we can :)
Thanks and Cheers,
-Justin
#24
It has never acted properly.
Don't mean to upset you Justin, but I would rather the product not be feature complete, then for it to be feature complete without a stable physics engine.
Great work to all the team !
05/10/2006 (2:37 pm)
Quote:We will not be making any changes to the physics before release--unless of course it is to fix functionality that is not acting properly
It has never acted properly.
Don't mean to upset you Justin, but I would rather the product not be feature complete, then for it to be feature complete without a stable physics engine.
Great work to all the team !
#25
If you are having problems with this and need help to better understand how to work with the systems provided to you, we have a great community that is willing to help you in the private forums.
05/10/2006 (2:45 pm)
Chris, thanks for your opinion. I will ask though that you not post things like this in a public plan as there are people who have no knowledge of TGB reading this taking what you say to be true. Our physics system is a good general solution for games and has been used to ship upwards of 10 commercial games. If our physics system never worked properly no games would be shipped. Perhaps you should clarify and say what I believe you're getting at--it doesn't work how *you* think it should. If you are having problems with this and need help to better understand how to work with the systems provided to you, we have a great community that is willing to help you in the private forums.
#26
Look, i'm not saying im not happy with TGB. I just think it seems kinda crumby to have planned on having support for an arguably major feature, and then for that feature to have been dropped and glossed over with the addition of editors. Nothing against the editors or anything, but T2D (as I knew it back in '05) worked fine without them, but no real-time network support then, is still no real-time network support now.
Anyways, congrats on locking it down for release. Here's hoping we'll see the full, original feature set implemented by the community. :P
edit:: changed 'real network support' to 'real-time network support'
05/10/2006 (2:50 pm)
*shrug* No need to take anything as a personal slant against the work which has been done thusfar. Anyhow, irregardless of what the product page currently reads, the early adopters were told what to expect out of Torque 2D, and real-time networking was listed. Many people have inquired about the status and eta of such a feature and were informed that it would be fourthcoming in subsequent releases. Look, i'm not saying im not happy with TGB. I just think it seems kinda crumby to have planned on having support for an arguably major feature, and then for that feature to have been dropped and glossed over with the addition of editors. Nothing against the editors or anything, but T2D (as I knew it back in '05) worked fine without them, but no real-time network support then, is still no real-time network support now.
Anyways, congrats on locking it down for release. Here's hoping we'll see the full, original feature set implemented by the community. :P
edit:: changed 'real network support' to 'real-time network support'
#27
It's not difficult to ship a game that doesn't use physics, or uses very basic physics. but try and do anything beyond a simple platformer, and the physics engine proves to be too unstable to use.
Rather then ask me to take my completely legitimate statement away from a public board, perhaps you could confront it with a solution.
I'm using TGB, I love TGB. I've convinced several people to purchase it. I'm not bashing it here. I simply want the physics engine that's there to be polished up as well as the rest of the engine is.
05/10/2006 (2:55 pm)
Judging by the responses of John Kilmak and Paul Dana, I'm not the only person who doesn't believe the Physics engine is ready to ship, if it's unchanged from the state it was in during Beta 2. Not to mention the other people who have stated similair concerns on the boards and in irc.It's not difficult to ship a game that doesn't use physics, or uses very basic physics. but try and do anything beyond a simple platformer, and the physics engine proves to be too unstable to use.
Rather then ask me to take my completely legitimate statement away from a public board, perhaps you could confront it with a solution.
I'm using TGB, I love TGB. I've convinced several people to purchase it. I'm not bashing it here. I simply want the physics engine that's there to be polished up as well as the rest of the engine is.
#28
05/10/2006 (3:10 pm)
@Chris: I think what Justin was getting at here is not that your point may not be valid and he's definately not saying it's bad to voice your opinion and make a suggestion/complaint. He's saying this plan isn't the place for a continued and in-depth discussion on the topic. This is a public plan, you have brought up a topic that if properly responded to would need to be said in a private TGB SDK owners only area, such as the forums. So please direct your responses to there, create a new thread even, but please don't continue it here :) 
#29
I don't even care when it doesn't work the first time, or the first four or FIVE times. I know how hard everyone at GG works, and I know what I paid for: an EARLY ADOPTER release that's just gone to Beta. A product I paid a *fraction* of the cost of other things on the market, and which is already noticeably better. You guys keep plugging along, and take the time you need. I can wait.
05/10/2006 (3:12 pm)
I just want to say that I think GG is doing a GREAT job with TGB. It's a better product than anything out there (including a few things WAY out of its price point). Maybe I should keep up better, or maybe I'm showing my "inexcusable inexperience", but I don't really look at it and go, "It's missing this or that." I'm just happy it has what it's got. Everytime you guys add a feature, it's a pleasant surprise and I feel like a kid on Christmas, "Oooo look! It's got *insert great new prototype feature here*! This will be SO cool!"I don't even care when it doesn't work the first time, or the first four or FIVE times. I know how hard everyone at GG works, and I know what I paid for: an EARLY ADOPTER release that's just gone to Beta. A product I paid a *fraction* of the cost of other things on the market, and which is already noticeably better. You guys keep plugging along, and take the time you need. I can wait.
#30
However, I feel it directly relates, as the engine is now feature complete, when there are several owners of the engine who feel this area is not up to par.
05/10/2006 (3:13 pm)
Fair enough... i will continue it in a private forum and link it here.However, I feel it directly relates, as the engine is now feature complete, when there are several owners of the engine who feel this area is not up to par.
#31
Thanks for the hard work, you're doing a superb job. Like you said, there have been a good amount of successful commercial games already released with even the earlier builds. I had been a blitzbasic user for a long time and I have learned to cherish the hard work from the GG developers and community, because it's impossible to find anywhere else.
I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have in store!
Matt
05/10/2006 (3:16 pm)
Justin,Thanks for the hard work, you're doing a superb job. Like you said, there have been a good amount of successful commercial games already released with even the earlier builds. I had been a blitzbasic user for a long time and I have learned to cherish the hard work from the GG developers and community, because it's impossible to find anywhere else.
I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have in store!
Matt
#33
05/10/2006 (3:36 pm)
@Chris: Thank you for taking this to the forums. Also, in the end what you state is not a new feature, they are fixes to currently existing features. So the point that the engine being "feature complete" has absolutely nothing to do with that. 
#34
However that does not mean I feel that the physics that is in there now is useless for all or even most applications. Far from it.
I would also agree with the sentiment that it's better to get an official stable 1.0 release out there as a first goal and providing other (better) collision code after that. As Justin points out...there is only so many 80 hour weeks in a week. One actaully.
05/10/2006 (3:37 pm)
I would just like to state that my position is a bit different than Chris's. The physics that is in there now has a few different ways for how it does integration and collisions. The ways it integrates and collides now have some limitations. I would like to see those limitations removed with other modes of integration.However that does not mean I feel that the physics that is in there now is useless for all or even most applications. Far from it.
I would also agree with the sentiment that it's better to get an official stable 1.0 release out there as a first goal and providing other (better) collision code after that. As Justin points out...there is only so many 80 hour weeks in a week. One actaully.
#35
05/10/2006 (3:45 pm)
Awesome work fellas! 
#36
Will
dlstorminc@yahoo.com
Digital Lightstorm
http://dlstorminc.fortunecity.com
Waskom, Tx
05/10/2006 (3:46 pm)
Great job on the TGB, when do you think we'll see a final release going from EA/beta to end result? I was figuring by the end of the year but probs do arise. Just also wanted to say you truly do have a great engine and priced very well I think. Now just think what you save building in this engine vs a Claw style true-pro style engine... you can't beat the price. Again great work guys....Will
dlstorminc@yahoo.com
Digital Lightstorm
http://dlstorminc.fortunecity.com
Waskom, Tx
#37
05/10/2006 (4:15 pm)
Re: physics, I replied here: www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44069#336786
#38
Did you end up using my code as a base or just as a reference?
lol and i just noticed the image map builder too!!!!
They look alot better than the condition i left them in :)
05/10/2006 (6:59 pm)
Hey Matt, good job with the animation builder!!Did you end up using my code as a base or just as a reference?
lol and i just noticed the image map builder too!!!!
They look alot better than the condition i left them in :)
#39
I don't want to rile things up here, but I do want to weigh in with two things that are important to consider when going with any middleware:
1. Torque (including TGE, TGB, and TSE) comes with full source. You can change, fix, replace, or rewrite any part of it. You are ultimately bound by your own talent and motivation, not ours. We have explicitly designed our technology and licensing so that you, the game developer, have maximum freedom to do whatever you imagine.
2. There is no shipping AAA title on the market which has not had significant tweaks done to every aspect of its codebase to make it work solidly. There is no single-A product which is tweak free. There aren't even any B-level products which have shipped on totally unmodified tech. There might be a few C-level games for which this is true. If you want to make a quality game, expect to make some tweaks. This is true if you use Torque for $80, and even more true if you license Source from Valve for a half a million. It is true if you license Havok or PhysX or Newton.
If you are building your game around a core mechanic, you have to be prepared to make that core mechanic your own. You have to - you need to be able to tweak it, customize it, break the rules to make things more fun, and so forth. If you're OK with your game not working very well, then you'll be fine just taking what's given and going with it.
With proper care and feeding, Torque is capable of being almost anything, and it's a great platform to build on. You can bend the rules a huge amount, too - consider how far some community projects have gotten without doing major C++ work. But if you can't or won't get hands on with every aspect of Torque, you're not going to get as far as someone who does.
TGB gives you a LOT of power but it's not going to make every game flawlessly out of the box with no changes at all. Nor will Source, or BlitzBasic, or Unreal, or anything else out there. Ultimately, we can't do anything more than give you the best tools we can, tools that we've used ourselves in high quality products, and put you in an environment where you can collaborate with us and others to get your idea made into reality.
I'm not saying anyone's comments aren't valid - I think that some good points are raised here - but I don't want people to fall into the trap of comparing us to a mythical product where you have unlimited potential without any drawbacks. We can only work so many double or triple shifts before we start falling asleep on our keyboards, and trust me, it's a short day when we spend less than ten hours a day working on this stuff.
Be patient, trust us, stay in touch with reality, and we'll do our best to get you awesome tools to make games (and other stuff!) with. :)
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Ben Garney
Torque Technologies Director
GarageGames.Com, Inc.
05/11/2006 (12:53 am)
From one side of the engine divide to another: Congrats on hitting another milestone, TGB guys!I don't want to rile things up here, but I do want to weigh in with two things that are important to consider when going with any middleware:
1. Torque (including TGE, TGB, and TSE) comes with full source. You can change, fix, replace, or rewrite any part of it. You are ultimately bound by your own talent and motivation, not ours. We have explicitly designed our technology and licensing so that you, the game developer, have maximum freedom to do whatever you imagine.
2. There is no shipping AAA title on the market which has not had significant tweaks done to every aspect of its codebase to make it work solidly. There is no single-A product which is tweak free. There aren't even any B-level products which have shipped on totally unmodified tech. There might be a few C-level games for which this is true. If you want to make a quality game, expect to make some tweaks. This is true if you use Torque for $80, and even more true if you license Source from Valve for a half a million. It is true if you license Havok or PhysX or Newton.
If you are building your game around a core mechanic, you have to be prepared to make that core mechanic your own. You have to - you need to be able to tweak it, customize it, break the rules to make things more fun, and so forth. If you're OK with your game not working very well, then you'll be fine just taking what's given and going with it.
With proper care and feeding, Torque is capable of being almost anything, and it's a great platform to build on. You can bend the rules a huge amount, too - consider how far some community projects have gotten without doing major C++ work. But if you can't or won't get hands on with every aspect of Torque, you're not going to get as far as someone who does.
TGB gives you a LOT of power but it's not going to make every game flawlessly out of the box with no changes at all. Nor will Source, or BlitzBasic, or Unreal, or anything else out there. Ultimately, we can't do anything more than give you the best tools we can, tools that we've used ourselves in high quality products, and put you in an environment where you can collaborate with us and others to get your idea made into reality.
I'm not saying anyone's comments aren't valid - I think that some good points are raised here - but I don't want people to fall into the trap of comparing us to a mythical product where you have unlimited potential without any drawbacks. We can only work so many double or triple shifts before we start falling asleep on our keyboards, and trust me, it's a short day when we spend less than ten hours a day working on this stuff.
Be patient, trust us, stay in touch with reality, and we'll do our best to get you awesome tools to make games (and other stuff!) with. :)
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Ben Garney
Torque Technologies Director
GarageGames.Com, Inc.
#40
Hope to see this little baby grow forward to perfection... :)
keep rocking guys .....best wishes for all of you
Aun
05/12/2006 (11:15 am)
This product is the best in its field.Hope to see this little baby grow forward to perfection... :)
keep rocking guys .....best wishes for all of you
Aun
Torque Owner John Klimek