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Torque Game Engine Advanced Open Beta
Torque Game Engine Advanced Open Beta
| Name: | Matt Fairfax |  |
|---|---|---|
| Date Posted: | Mar 19, 2008 | |
| Rating: |  5.0 out of 5 | |
| Public: | YES | |
| Comments: | YES | |
| RSS Feed: |  or Subscribe with  . | |
| Profile Page: | View profile page for Matt Fairfax |
Blog post
Did you say Open Beta?
I am happy to announce the release of the TGEA 1.7 Open Beta!
We, here at GarageGames, have decided to go out on a limb and allow all owners of the Torque Game Engine Advanced to get their hands on the TGEA 1.7 beta as we continue nail down the remaining issues.
Still early screenshots from our Oasis demo
Why is this a Beta?
At this point we consider TGEA 1.7 feature complete and of a quality and readiness that we trust TGEA owners to take a look and test things out with the understanding that it's...well...a beta :) There are still some known bugs. We'd *love* to get everyone's help identifying and squashing these and as many other bugs as we can. Early access to this, one of our biggest releases ever, will allow us to keep an open dialogue about the direction of our products and their features.
Michael Perry has done a ton of work on the Getting Started, Mission Editor, GUI Editor, Using Art Asset documents but we still have a ways to go on some other areas of the documentation. We will continue to work actively on this while TGEA is in beta and look forward to getting feedback as we add the final touches to make this a full release.
What will you get (for FREE!)
I covered a lot of things in my previous blog, so I will only hit the highlights:
Why TGEA 1.7?
Version numbers are a funny thing...What metric do you use to determine how big of a jump in version number you should make? The number of features? The amount of time spent on it? The amount of money?
By all these metrics, this release warrants a very big jump. The changes, though not all of them sexy, are together an enormous improvement over TGEA 1.0.3. Users digging into the code or really banging on the stability and performance of this new release will notice right away that, though this is a TGEA release, it's much different than any Torque engine ever released before. Some of you have heard us refer to "Juggernaut" as our internal repository of the latest and greatest tech. Well, in many ways that's true, but there's a lot work that has to go into a release like this one before it's really usable by Torque developers outside GG offices. That's the work I've been doing for the past few months. We're releasing this under the TGEA banner because it is the most advanced stuff we've got. It's been mentioned before, but Legions, ScrewJumper, Marble Blast Online, Buccaneer, and many other titles forthcoming have all been built on exactly this tech, so it's very battle-tested.
Some of you might be looking at our version number history in the past and saying "hmmm..." Well, if you look back over the development of TGE, it is fairly easy to see the snail's pace of version numbering next to a mountain of features and bug fixes between each version of the engine. Looking back over the last 7 years of TGE development, it is pretty obvious that we have easily more than doubled the functionality and usability of the engine (just ask some of the old timers ;). Taking the longview and looking at other new engines that have run through 3 full version numbers in one or two years before fading away, it makes us sometimes wonder why this release shouldn't be called Torque 2 or even Torque 3!
There are certainly people at GG who'd rather keep a release like this low key...maybe roll out with a small announcement as we have in the past of TGEA 1.1 etc. As a developer, I sometimes fight my own cautious nature in talking enthusiastically about my own work. I think most devs are the same. But TGEA deserves more of a splash than that. Or at least that's what the marketing dudes keep telling me. =P Ultimately, how did we settle the version number debates at GarageGames? With lively discussions and guerilla nerf battles!
Let's get cracking!
Grab your vey own license to TGEA, hop over to your account page to download the Beta from your TGEA download page, and start sending us feedback and bugs!
With your help, we can make this the best release of Torque yet!
I am happy to announce the release of the TGEA 1.7 Open Beta!
We, here at GarageGames, have decided to go out on a limb and allow all owners of the Torque Game Engine Advanced to get their hands on the TGEA 1.7 beta as we continue nail down the remaining issues.
Still early screenshots from our Oasis demo
Why is this a Beta?
At this point we consider TGEA 1.7 feature complete and of a quality and readiness that we trust TGEA owners to take a look and test things out with the understanding that it's...well...a beta :) There are still some known bugs. We'd *love* to get everyone's help identifying and squashing these and as many other bugs as we can. Early access to this, one of our biggest releases ever, will allow us to keep an open dialogue about the direction of our products and their features.
Michael Perry has done a ton of work on the Getting Started, Mission Editor, GUI Editor, Using Art Asset documents but we still have a ways to go on some other areas of the documentation. We will continue to work actively on this while TGEA is in beta and look forward to getting feedback as we add the final touches to make this a full release.
What will you get (for FREE!)
I covered a lot of things in my previous blog, so I will only hit the highlights:
- 1) Major code cleanup and refactor - The GG Game Studios team put nearly a year of work on the underlying engine code and their effort shows in the number of bugs fixed and how much simpler it is to work with the code.
- 2) MegaTerrains - As you may have seen in Josh Engebretson's recent blog, the legacy terrain system in Torque has been extended to allow for *much* larger and much more detailed terrains. These new MegaTerrains include all the amazing real-time terrain editing features of the original Terrain system. It should make getting the terrain you want for your game in place easier than ever.
Creating a MegaTerrain Video
- 3) Polysoup Collision - We've taken Ben Garney's OPCODE Polysoup Collision implementation and extended it to better integrate with the environment and lighting. The improvements are looking sharp! Quickly drop in your mesh objects and levels and get up and running with them in no time.
Using Polysoup Video
- 4) SFX Sound Layer - The new sound layer is getting a thorough testing over in the games on InstantAction and has already proven to be enormously easier to work with. Tom Spilman will continue to roll in cool new features and improvements over the course of the beta.
- 5) Getting Started - A primary focus of this new release is making sure that new users can get up and running on TGEA as quickly as possible. We are doing this by making sure that TGEA owners have top notch docs available to help them hit the ground running. We are also providing a great selection of game examples to show tried and tested implementations of the most common problems you will encounter when building your game.
Why TGEA 1.7?
Version numbers are a funny thing...What metric do you use to determine how big of a jump in version number you should make? The number of features? The amount of time spent on it? The amount of money?
By all these metrics, this release warrants a very big jump. The changes, though not all of them sexy, are together an enormous improvement over TGEA 1.0.3. Users digging into the code or really banging on the stability and performance of this new release will notice right away that, though this is a TGEA release, it's much different than any Torque engine ever released before. Some of you have heard us refer to "Juggernaut" as our internal repository of the latest and greatest tech. Well, in many ways that's true, but there's a lot work that has to go into a release like this one before it's really usable by Torque developers outside GG offices. That's the work I've been doing for the past few months. We're releasing this under the TGEA banner because it is the most advanced stuff we've got. It's been mentioned before, but Legions, ScrewJumper, Marble Blast Online, Buccaneer, and many other titles forthcoming have all been built on exactly this tech, so it's very battle-tested.
Some of you might be looking at our version number history in the past and saying "hmmm..." Well, if you look back over the development of TGE, it is fairly easy to see the snail's pace of version numbering next to a mountain of features and bug fixes between each version of the engine. Looking back over the last 7 years of TGE development, it is pretty obvious that we have easily more than doubled the functionality and usability of the engine (just ask some of the old timers ;). Taking the longview and looking at other new engines that have run through 3 full version numbers in one or two years before fading away, it makes us sometimes wonder why this release shouldn't be called Torque 2 or even Torque 3!
There are certainly people at GG who'd rather keep a release like this low key...maybe roll out with a small announcement as we have in the past of TGEA 1.1 etc. As a developer, I sometimes fight my own cautious nature in talking enthusiastically about my own work. I think most devs are the same. But TGEA deserves more of a splash than that. Or at least that's what the marketing dudes keep telling me. =P Ultimately, how did we settle the version number debates at GarageGames? With lively discussions and guerilla nerf battles!
Let's get cracking!
Grab your vey own license to TGEA, hop over to your account page to download the Beta from your TGEA download page, and start sending us feedback and bugs!
With your help, we can make this the best release of Torque yet!
Recent Blog Posts
| List: | 04/05/08 - TGEA 1.7 is Officially Released! 03/29/08 - Torque Game Engine Advanced Open Beta 2 03/19/08 - Torque Game Engine Advanced Open Beta 01/18/08 - Big Update to TGEA on the way! 09/15/07 - A Week in Oregon 04/10/07 - Great Strides 10/27/06 - Constructor Beta9 thru Beta14 10/27/06 - Constructor Beta3 thru Beta8 |
|---|
Submit your own resources!| Dave Young (Mar 19, 2008 at 01:23 GMT) |
| Chris \"C2\" Byars (Mar 19, 2008 at 01:25 GMT) |
| JungHyuck Yang (Mar 19, 2008 at 01:42 GMT) |
| jydog (Mar 19, 2008 at 01:57 GMT) |
| metalliandy (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:16 GMT) |
| J.C. Smith (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:16 GMT) |
| Ramen-sama (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:17 GMT) |
| Sean T. Boyette (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:18 GMT) |
| Tom Spilman (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:46 GMT) |
| T Squared (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:46 GMT) |
| Skanda (Mar 19, 2008 at 02:54 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Thanks very much to GarageGames Team!
| David J Weaver (Mar 19, 2008 at 03:09 GMT) |
| Tom Eastman (Eastbeast314) (Mar 19, 2008 at 03:29 GMT) |
| Matt Kronyak (Mar 19, 2008 at 04:34 GMT) |
| J.C. Smith (Mar 19, 2008 at 04:37 GMT) |
| Ken Wiseman (Mar 19, 2008 at 04:48 GMT) |
| Dmitriy Kazimirov (Mar 19, 2008 at 05:55 GMT) |
Is final version will be free to owners of TGEA?Or there will be price to update?
8.6 of 159.9 MB at 58.6 Kb/s, 43:01 remain
| Andrea (Mar 19, 2008 at 06:18 GMT) |
;-)
| Matt Fairfax (Mar 19, 2008 at 07:35 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
| Thomas Oliver (Mar 19, 2008 at 07:58 GMT) |
| Daz (Mar 19, 2008 at 08:20 GMT) |
| Eikon Games (Mar 19, 2008 at 08:20 GMT) |
| Benjamin L. Grauer (Mar 19, 2008 at 09:18 GMT) |
| Jeramy79 (Mar 19, 2008 at 09:19 GMT) |
| Dmitriy Kazimirov (Mar 19, 2008 at 11:17 GMT) |
and TGE AFX RC was awesome.
Having all documentation in one place,and available to _offline_ use is big plus too (it is not always possible to keep connection to TDN all of time).
As for MegaTerrains, huge means that now we have several 512x512 heightmap instead of one 256x256?
Or it is possible to have something like mini-Atlas?(btw,which tool you think best to create Atlas terrains?L3DT Pro?Something other?)
After reading blog at http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=14177
I saw
3. All of the rendering objects should now support fixed function fallbacks for non-shadered video cards
Looks like current beta 1 doesn't support it.
Attempt to run samples from on machine with S3 Unichrome Pro IGP results in popup about PS 1.1/DX9 required.
Video drivers on this machine are working at least to some degree (SecondLife viewer starts)
I'm missing something?
| Rene Damm (Mar 19, 2008 at 11:29 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
One little issue I came across: initially, none but the "T3D Demo Advanced" example managed to fully start up. They all suddenly quit with no message during initial loading. Last three lines from console.log (stronghold example):
Engine initialized...
Win32Window::WindowProc - resetting device due to window size change.
GFXPCD3D9Device::reset - depthstencil 3620620 has 2 ref's
After running the "T3D Demo Advanced" example, which started up with no problems, the others then ran just fine. Suppose it's some config issue. Will see whether I can dig up a little more.
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 11:44 GMT
| deadm4n (Mar 19, 2008 at 12:14 GMT) |
| Holger (Mar 19, 2008 at 12:28 GMT) |
| Michael Perry (Mar 19, 2008 at 12:46 GMT) |
@William Singleton - Not sure where the confusion comes from =)
Free update for TGEA Owners
You own TGEA
Hence, you get the update
There are occasional charges for upgrades, but I've only ever seen one regarding a version change: Upgrading from TGE 1.4 to 1.5. New license purchases went from $100 to $150. Existing owners simply paid the $50 upgrade fee, unless they had a couple other purchases such as the Synapse Lighting Pack. That was the first time I've heard of a version upgrade cost for Torque, but not the first time in the game engine industry.
So, if you own TGEA you get the goodies =)
I look forward to getting feedback from everyone about documentation. Still lots of work to do, so all input is welcome =)
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 12:47 GMT
| Bill Vee (Mar 19, 2008 at 13:05 GMT) |
Is the DIF interior still the preferred option for buildings or the DTS with Polysoup?
Comparisons ?
Pros?
Cons?
| David Blake (Mar 19, 2008 at 13:23 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Now get back to work. *whip-crack*
| J.C. Smith (Mar 19, 2008 at 13:30 GMT) |
| Affectworks (Mar 19, 2008 at 14:13 GMT) |
Fredrik S
| Matt Huston (Mar 19, 2008 at 14:19 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
| James Laker (BurNinG) (Mar 19, 2008 at 14:19 GMT) |
You guys rock... Thanx a lot for this!
| Ryan Mounts (Mar 19, 2008 at 14:52 GMT) |
| Deborah Marshall (Mar 19, 2008 at 15:28 GMT) |
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 15:29 GMT
| Edward (Mar 19, 2008 at 15:34 GMT) |
| Syllus (Mar 19, 2008 at 15:56 GMT) |
And secondly... I have to say, even though I am at work right now I have gone through the new documentation and it is amazing how much difference a well organized set of docs can make. It looks great guys! Thank you and Congrats again!
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 15:57 GMT
| Michael (silentMike) Hall (Mar 19, 2008 at 16:06 GMT) |
| Matt Huston (Mar 19, 2008 at 16:40 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Although its legacy terrain, its actually somewhat rewritten (it has always been in TGEA) and doesn't have a dependency on assembly code anymore as the TGE version does.
| Matt Kronyak (Mar 19, 2008 at 16:46 GMT) |
Speaking of documentation, Michael Perry and whoever else (did anyone else work on it?) got the included documentation together did a great job. I've gotten fairly comfortable with TGEA 1.0.3 but the new docs should help transition to 1.7 much more seamlessly when the time for that comes.
Great work!
| Kerry Lyon (Mar 19, 2008 at 16:52 GMT) |
I'm having trouble opening the source max files for the new characters. I'm using 3ds Max 8 and I get this error: "Unknown class, no stand-in: SuperID =0xB60, ClassID = (0x4A0C66E,0x1513165)"
It seems to be caused by missing 'dll's'.
Anyone know what version of max Tim Aste used (or if this would affect opening files)?
It would be great to check out his work as reference.
| Michael Perry (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:00 GMT) |
For this particular release, the overall format and doc file was put together by tech created by Matt Langley. Matt Fairfax was the one who brought me onto the project to write the docs, and provided the guidance on what critical sections should be tackled (and in what order). New documentation and content was written by Stephen Zepp, myself, and others who specialize in certain areas.
As I said in a thread I made about a year ago, documentation is TOUGH work. Documenting a robust and complex engine like TGEA would drive a single person insane, if they ever finished. I'm happy to have joined on for this portion of this project, and look forward to writing more =)
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 17:00 GMT
| Jeramy79 (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:07 GMT) |
Is there a standard for when you'll charge for an upgrade? Is it listed anywhere when we purchase TGEA? Is there a certain timeframe that you'll exempt from the charges, lets say if you come out with an update in less than a year from the original purchase?
I know you aren't charging for this upgrade, but who's to say you don't come out with TGEA 2.0 or Torque 2 in a few months. I'll be pretty pissed if I have to pay for an upgrade after I already spent almost $300.
| Jeff Faust (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:11 GMT) |
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=73252
| Matt Huston (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:16 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Comparison between TGEA 1.0.3 and TGEA 1.7...
FPS in Water Demo went from 300 FPS to 500 FPS. Wow!
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 18:16 GMT
| Stephen Zepp (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:18 GMT) |
Quote:
I noticed that the new SFX layer wasn't in (and saw in the locked "bug" thread that its not merged in yet)
Not actually true--the SFX layer is in--it's an abstraction layer. The FMOD plugin to the SFX layer is what is mentioned as not being completed (as in, not being delivered), but you can easily create your own FMOD device for SFX (if you have the programming knowledge), or any other sound library.
| Scott Burns (Mar 19, 2008 at 17:56 GMT) |
| Ademys (Mar 19, 2008 at 18:32 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Comparison TGE- 1.3 with "xp" ~150 fps and "Vista" ~060 fps. "opengl" with mOcclusion system
Comparison TGE- 1.5 with "xp" ~050 fps and "Vista" ---Out---- "opengl" without mOcclusion system
Comparison TGEA 1.3 with "xp" ~200 fps and "Vista" ~100 fps. "DirectX" with mOcclusion system
Comparison TGEA 1.7 with "xp" ~450 fps and "Vista" ~350 fps. "DirectX" without mOcclusion system
Sony: Intel Pentium 4, ~2.80 Ghz for "Vista"
DirectX version - 10.0
o Vendor : 'NVIDIA'
o Card : 'GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS'
o Version: '62.22'
Sony: Intel Pentium 4, ~2.40 Ghz for "xp"
DirectX 9 version - 9.0.0 c
DirectX 8 version - 9.0$
o Vendor : 'NVIDIA'
o Card : 'GeForce 7600 GS'
o Version: '69.21'
Great work!
Thanx a lot for this!
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 20:29 GMT
| Christian S (Mar 19, 2008 at 19:02 GMT) |
You simply make this place worth lingering in, totally great and awesome work (brushes off nose).
Im so pleased that I found, and choosed to use your engine -keep it up folks!
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 19:03 GMT
| Deborah Marshall (Mar 19, 2008 at 19:05 GMT) |
| Eric Forhan (Mar 19, 2008 at 19:09 GMT) |
| Thak (Mar 19, 2008 at 19:37 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
| Stephan (viKKing) Bondier (Mar 19, 2008 at 20:49 GMT) |
Nah, just kidding you. ;)
| Gareth Fouche (Mar 19, 2008 at 21:08 GMT) |
The entire time attending family gatherings I am going to be thinking "Polysoup...megaterrains...polysoup...megaterrains...polysoup..."
Can't wait to try it, the videos look awesome, congrats and thanks to everyone involved! :D
| T Squared (Mar 19, 2008 at 21:12 GMT) |
Edited on Mar 19, 2008 21:54 GMT
| Thomas Oliver (Mar 19, 2008 at 23:42 GMT) |
| Tobias Niva (Mar 20, 2008 at 00:01 GMT) |
I think you still have to rely on *.dif in some cases...since *.dts does not lightmap, or have another UV channel to use a lightmap rendered in an exterior software.
Another issue I guess is the culling that *.dif support. I think it
| John E. Nelson (Mar 20, 2008 at 01:17 GMT) |
Fantastic job!
| T Squared (Mar 20, 2008 at 02:33 GMT) |
| Thomas Oliver (Mar 20, 2008 at 03:30 GMT) |
| T Squared (Mar 20, 2008 at 04:02 GMT) |
| James Laker (BurNinG) (Mar 20, 2008 at 08:26 GMT) |
Quote:
id rather bloom then FSAA
Then I guess you need to wait for the Final :P I'm sure there are people who would rather choose FSAA over bloom too.
I love the improvement in FPS on Vista!
| Greg Ellwood (Mar 20, 2008 at 09:33 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
Had a brief look at it last night and am seeing huge performance increases.
Very excited about the Mega Terrain stuff :)
Hoping to have a better play with it over the weekend and get some feedback posted.
| Bobby Leighton (Mar 20, 2008 at 12:53 GMT) |
| Randy Mlinarcik (Mar 20, 2008 at 14:26 GMT) |
| David Jauregui (Mar 20, 2008 at 14:38 GMT) |
| T Squared (Mar 20, 2008 at 15:32 GMT) |
| Devon Winter (Mar 20, 2008 at 16:20 GMT) |
| Devon Winter (Mar 20, 2008 at 16:28 GMT) |
Currently I model and animate in truespace, and export using the DTS exporter 2.0. It's finicky, but works up to and through TGE 1.5.2. Not looking for detailed elaborations, but have the underlying structures in TGEA 1.7 changed enough that we can expect it to be some time before the pipeline tools catch up to the new engine, or are most exporters working as expected?
| Lathieeshe Thillainathan (Mar 20, 2008 at 18:05 GMT) |
The documentation is great a help to new comers like me! :-)
| Erik Madison (Mar 20, 2008 at 20:53 GMT) |
| Stephan Goebels (Mar 20, 2008 at 21:36 GMT) |
You can find the whitepaper "Real-Time Normal Map DXT Compression" on the developer zone of NVIDIA.
Real-Time Normal Map DXT Compression
Quote:
The full implementation of the real-time _Y_X DXT5 compressor can be found in appendix A. MMX and SSE2 implementations of this real-time compressor can be found in appendix B and C respectively.
The full Cg 2.0 implementations of the real-time _Y_X DXT5 (DXT5nm) normal map compressor, and the real-time 3Dc (BC5 or LATC) normal map compressor, can be found in appendix D.
Edited on Mar 20, 2008 21:53 GMT
| Erik Madison (Mar 21, 2008 at 00:54 GMT) |
| Thomas Oliver (Mar 21, 2008 at 02:07 GMT) |
| Gerard Prudhomme (Mar 21, 2008 at 14:23 GMT) |
| Vashner (Mar 22, 2008 at 18:19 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
| Trenton Shaffer (Mar 23, 2008 at 19:28 GMT) |
| Eric Forhan (Mar 23, 2008 at 19:30 GMT) |
Edited on Mar 23, 2008 19:31 GMT
| Trenton Shaffer (Mar 26, 2008 at 02:25 GMT) |
Good call. Back when I first started evaluating TGEA I already had added almost all features to my version of TGE found in TGEA, so the ability to edit legacy terrain was not a selling point.
In the latest beta of TGEA, you can edit the same old Legacy Terrains, but with the addition of MegaTerrains I can make my worlds as big as I want and edit the terrain in-house.
I have my own implementation of MegaTerrains in TGE that works differently, more like a cross between Oblivion terrain and Guild Wars terrain loading. It works, but I can't edit all the terrains at once, only 1 at a time and then I have to manually create a mission file to encompass the full terrain ... in other words It's a sloppy hack and a pain to use.
This beta release of TGEA is what I've been needing for a long time wrapped up in one little neat package. Best of all, no additional 3rd party libraries are needed to get additional features that used to be lacking, nor is there a need for me to code additional features of my own, this version is pretty much feature complete for my next project. Obviously if I wanted to build on the foundation with 3rd party libraries I could, but I truly feel at this point there is no need. I can TorqueScript whatever I need to do.
This is definitly a milestone for GG as a whole, and gives some great insight on what to expect in the future. It really makes you wonder about "Torque 2", but that is a conversation for a different thread.
@Deborah Marshall
Amen. Do you want my Credit Card now or later ;) I consider GG my own personal development group that I get to pay about $500 year (give or take, counting content packs) to keep me up-to-date with the latest game engine and tools. Come to think of it, GG has been coding for me for 4 years now. Thanks for the low development costs!!!
Edited on Mar 26, 2008 02:37 GMT
| Dan Keller (Mar 29, 2008 at 00:34 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
| Matt Fairfax (Mar 29, 2008 at 00:41 GMT) Resource Rating: 5 |
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=73515
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