Ugh... Here I come!

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Bobby Leighton   (Apr 24, 2007 at 17:00 GMT)

Give me a shout at my email, am going to Devry University for Game and Simulation Design, and am starting programming on Monday with Logic and Design, I might be able to help you get a good start as I go through the classes. Do you have any type of programming experience? I do have some books i will give you for free If you can show some dedication, I would be happy to help as long as you are willing to help your self:)

Eric Armstrong   (Apr 24, 2007 at 17:01 GMT)

I can't remember the book I used to really understand C++, but then by the time I taught myself C++, I had already programmed in many other languages before. The key thing about programming though, is that the language/syntax is pretty much irrelevant. Programming is about breaking down problems and understanding how to see them for their discrete steps and processes. Converting that understanding to the syntax of your choice is easy part. The best way to learn that breaking down skill is simply by doing it. Just write programs. Start simple and work your way up.

With that said, the Game Institute isn't a horrible place to get some game specific training. It has it's problems, but you can learn from there. They have a C++ course designed to get you familiar with the language, and keeps things game focused/oriented. Check it out here:

www.gameinstitute.com/CPP_Programming_for_Game_Developers_Module_1.html

That should get you started, and it's not super expensive, not much more than a couple of good programming books...

J Sears   (Apr 24, 2007 at 17:32 GMT)

I've been trying to be a self taught person as well, I find there are plenty of beginner books that show how to do everything that puts out text only. But then there seems to be a lack of in between books because all the next books are with graphics but they don't introduce working with graphics in a basic way they all assume you've already been working with graphics.
For instance I got what was supposed to be a begining in game programming with direct x book and it said it was for people who have had no experience with direct x and little to none with graphics. This book started out at a very advanced level making it painfull to try and follow

Eric Schuld   (Apr 24, 2007 at 18:04 GMT)

@Bobby - I will shoot you an email later today - when work permits. (I work 2 part-time jobs with LOTS of free time - hence why I am pushing hard to get going more and more on this - as I don't actually work Monday, Thursday, or Friday during the day.)

@Eric - thanks for the link - might be something to consider - as I would have spent more than that on gas to take the actual class. And I understand what you mean about the language/syntax becoming irrelevant - but when you are 12 years removed from programming... I need a new start. :) My brain is wired for math and problem solving - which very much falls inline with programming - of the programming I have done - it has always come very easy too me. (And the more I do it - the more my mind craves it... I find I get lethargic in every area of my life when not pushing my brain.)

@J - that's been part of my frustration as well. :P

Neo Binedell   (Apr 24, 2007 at 19:29 GMT)

Regardless of what you use to learn it, the most important thing is to USE it. Write as many simple little apps as you can possibly muster, adding just enough challenge so that you learn new things as you complete them.

Even long time programmers still need to look up stuff now and again so don't worry about any of that, just use what you know everyday.

I can't stress this enough, USE it as much as you can and it becomes second nature in no time.

good luck

David Higgins   (Apr 24, 2007 at 20:18 GMT)

I've been self teaching myself to program since I was 12, and the best thing I came up with for a learning process was "trial and error". I know, it sounds like an odd way to teach yourself programming, but hey ... I'm a professional software developer and consultant now, so ... it's gotta work, eh?

My method is pretty simple, I pick a technology, in this case, it's C++, and I decide I want to do something, let's say ... write a game (thats what this community is all about, right?). So, what I do, is take everything i know already (we'll assume thats nothing for this scenario) and I build upon it ... knowing nothing, I start simple. I'm not much for reading books, unless they read like dictionaries (C++ The Complete Reference, C++ Bible, etc, etc ... "man fopen", haha), so ... I know what I want to do ... I want to display a 'map' on the screen that I can walk around on ... to do this, I need to accomplish two 'seemingly' simple tasks ... 'draw a map' and 'put a player on the screen to walk around' ... well, putting the player on the screen just seems easier ... so, I jump on google, and I start looking at examples of drawing simple sprites to a DirectX, OpenGL or (this is my preferred case) and SDL Surface. I look at examples, I try them out, I rewrite them from the ground up and mimic them line by line ... I do this once or twice, making small alterations as I go to see the effect it has ... then I scratch everything, start from the ground up again, and do it all from memory (ok -- might be helpful to note, I have a fairly good memory for things like this and can commit most things very fast).

Ok, now i've got a sprite on the screen ... what about moving it around ... ok ... back to google ... I research input ... I try different input examples, and I cycle back around ... repeating the process until I have a player on a map ... moving around.

Now ... I've learned how to do quite a few things I need to know to complete my game ... now, I start looking into doing the more advanced things (or well, what I had thought would be more advanced) and I start writing custom classes to store information about the map and the player, and I start to tie everything together ... and ... what do you know ... eventually, I have a really crappy game thats no fun to play and a slue of knowledge ... NOW ... I start working on trying to make the game I wanted.

I do this for all technologies I want to learn, works almost all the time ... sometimes I've gotta stop and take a step back, ask some questions in forums ... but most times, I can just start with nothing and wind up with a really final result.

And yes, I know ... this is not a 'for everyone' method of self teaching ... and it involves just about no books ... I do have quite a few books at home, but every single one of them has the word 'Reference' in the title ... and no one in my house, including myself, touches them ... they're just there to make people think I read ... :P

Mike Rowley   (Apr 24, 2007 at 20:42 GMT)

You can try Steve Hellers book C++ a dialog. It teaches the C++ standard library. It comes in book form, (amazon.com) or online free.

Kenneth Donnelly   (Apr 24, 2007 at 21:06 GMT)

Here is just a little helpful link:
Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days 2nd Edition

Its sam's teach yourself in 21 days second edition. I believe the newest version is 5 but this one is free. I started teaching myself by reading the beginner books and then went to "Beginning Directx" books, but I learn better by reading to myself than a classroom environment.
Edited on Apr 24, 2007 21:13 GMT

Eric Schuld   (Apr 24, 2007 at 21:52 GMT)

@Mike - thanks for the book link - I'll check it out.

@Kenneth - I can learn from books - but I find for myself personally - I learn best by also hearing a voice of sorts - that teacher explaining it too me - and the chance for dialogue when I have questions has always been more effective for my style of learning. :P

I'm looking at that C++ course mentioned earlier through the Game Institute as that would be less expensive than the gas would be for me to drive to my old college - AND - there are lectures included with the speaker actually doing the movements on the screens... you understand what i'm saying. :)

Jameson Bennett   (Apr 25, 2007 at 01:43 GMT)

Dont bother with C++ at first. Learn torque script or action script or javascript. C++ is not the friendliest language to get your feet wet with. It is an awesome language to master.

Learn OOP concepts, get the Design Patterns book by the Gang of Four and learn all the patterns by heart. These fundamentals will be much more useful in the long run than fighting memory leaks.

Leroy Frederick   (Apr 25, 2007 at 08:52 GMT)

I agree with Neo on using what you learn (use it or lose it). I also agree with Jameson, you don't need to learn c++ to use torque for game development, only for extras and things the engine doesn't include like date/time (and even this has code available to paste into the engine).

I think it also helps if you have a simple project (or a project at least) in mind to give the learning (theory) some kind of practicalness. I would also even advise that you get started with TGB if you are somewhat a novice with programming or are finding it hard to learn programming.

So to summarise, get TGB, think of a simple project (snake, pac man, frogger, memory etc, and even these aren't as easy as we first think) to take on that will allow you to stay focused and motivated in learning game dev and torquescript, complete the project, gain confidence, do another more interesting/complex project or move up to 3D, do the same then perhaps move on the engine code programming as necessary (c++). David's methodology (similar of the above) is the extended version of this process.

Nonetheless, if you still insist on learning c++ first instead of torquescript, here's a link to some video tutorials (some people prefer video then reading):
Visual c++:www.pixel2life.com/tutorials/visual_c/
Non video/mixed:
c++: www.pixel2life.com/tutorials/c_general/
Beginner Developer Learning Centre: msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/beginner/learningpath/
Good wishes with whatever method you decide upon :0)

Edited on Apr 25, 2007 09:00 GMT

Richard_H   (Apr 25, 2007 at 20:49 GMT)

I have taught myself Java, C++, HTML, ect mostly from the use of Sam's Teach Yourself books. These books are great and easy to use. I sugest potentialy starting with Java then working up to C++, but you might be able to jump right in.
Online tutorials can be a big help, try looking at the resources that come with Torque and tweak them.

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