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David Montgomery-Blake   (Jan 09, 2006 at 20:00 GMT)

Don't bite off more than you can chew. Building models and animations (as well as applying physics) to such a huge design is a massive undertaking. Start simply, building one aspect (say snowboarding as it will require less vehicular complexity than a BMX simulation). On the sexuality note, you should let the players engage the polarity rather than using something akin to in-game or CG sequences to keep them guessing. That way, they will be active participants in her story rather than movie-watchers. But even that could very well be a hard sale. Most "let's do this plot sequence to keep things interesting" approaches don't work all that well. Rather, it might be more interesting to allow the player to choose the gender of the character and establish the sexuality (if you're looking to work with a sexuality story arc) accordingly. That way, you don't fall into the stereotype of "lesbians are hot, gays are not".

Of course, I'm not sure how relevant it would be to the over-all story arc. And while I loved games like Tony Hawk, Dave Mirra, 360 Avalanche, SSX, and Shawn Paulmer, I'm not sure exactly about a story-oriented RPG approach. It sounds more like a mission-oriented story arc ala THUG with a little BMX XXX thrown in to provide some strange selling point. But that was my initial reaction. It will probably change as you post more ideas.

But still, bite off small chunks. Then expand as necessary.

Sam Bolton   (Jan 09, 2006 at 20:25 GMT)

Thank you for the post, but I'm not sure if I quite got my idea across to you. I mean, she will just be doing these things. It allows for a back story as to why she can do some cool ass shit. I do not want to focus on her being bi-sexual, I just kinda' want to have it in there where it allows the player to come to their own assumption of that fact. Yes she is, but no one really emphasizes on that point. And I do -not- plan on making a game like THUG where it is mission based. This will have an in-depth story, something that you can really get into, where we will have character developement like a true RPG.

I may throw in some aspects of being able to play a snowboard mission or a driving mission or something like that, but they will be few and far between (maybe). I do appreciate the comment, I really do, I'm just not sure if what you have in your head and what I have in mine are neccessarily the same thing. Think like a story kinda' like XXX but a little more intriguing then that. Don't get me wrong if anyone is a Vin Diesel fan, hell I'm a Vin Diesel fan, but the story on that could have been better, and the story on the second one could've been considered a story if they worked harder on it.

If you still think that I'm all fucked in the head, that's cool, just post back up if you don't mind. I just think that I didn't explain myself properly there. So people, I would love the posts, please keep em' comin'.

David Montgomery-Blake   (Jan 09, 2006 at 21:24 GMT)

I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is that you're trying to do. From the sounds of the XXX story, but more intruiging, I'm reminded of Dark Summit, which was an interesting attempt at trying to merge snowboarding and adventure games (with the point-upgrade system in some action-RPG's and "extreme" games). Or Happy Happy Boarders which attempted to merge love sims and snowboarding (somewhat successfully). Unfortunately, both games were lacking in both areas, something that most cross-genre attempts do. Generally it is an attempt at trying to capture two disimilar tastes and doing both a disservice. Sometimes they're done pretty well, but usually they're unfortunately not that entertaining (unless you're easily entertained like me).

I'm not saying "pick a genre and stick with it". I'm trying to figure out whether it is a cross-genre title or if it is a more traditional RPG that simply has "extreme sports" characters as the leads.

If it is not a traditional "action-RPG" with non-traditional elements (snowboarding missions to up your character's proficiency, etc), then is it more like a turn-based RPG/strategy game with sport's oriented battle challenges? For an example of a "traditional SRPG-esque game" with a fun twist, look at Brian Edd's blog. It combines SRPG battle sequencing and marbles. And it's quite fun. I'm excited to see the next iteration of it.

It is pretty rare for US games to touch on sexuality unless it is in a derrogatory manner (for the sake of humor). The Japanese adventure and RPG market often utilize characters that are a bit more open, though often still stereotypical to the common manga/anime presentation.

Right now I'm just not clear on what type of game you're creating. I have a million RPG stylings that come to mind from system-oriented to story-oriented to adventure-oriented to action-oriented. But I'm still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it is because of the convenient box that we draw around the RPG concept.

But then, I'm also the guy who thought a combination of extreme skateboarding and a rail shooter would be a good idea. Actually, I still do.

Sam Bolton   (Jan 10, 2006 at 01:20 GMT)

Well basically, I don't want to say the names of other games, and I really don't wanna' drop this one, because I highly highly highly highly doubt that it will ever be anywhere near this good. Think Final fantasy for how the game is gonna' work. Only exceptions is that it's gonna' be more realistic, and the story is gonna' be a lot lot lot darker. Like maybe some shit from "Saw" or "Hostel". Like I wanna' put some stuff in that will make adults cringe at the thought.

I want to make a game that people haven't seen before, and that it will kinda' shake things up. I'm not sure what kind of battle system I'm gonna' use yet, and I don't know how other RPG's have generated their damage (If anyone does know, please contact me), but I want something that people can get into. Really get with the characters and feel for them and everything. But I want something plausible. Like in FFX at the begginning of the game, Tidus automatically knew how to use a sword. They never gave any explanation as to what kind of background he has with swords, but for some reason he just knows how to use them.

I don't want the player to guess as to where she got these abilities to do shit. I'm thinking about maybe her adoptive father, is kinda' an old guy, who does some smithery on the side. I mean, even though this is future-esque, I want people to be able to relate to some of the stuff that might have been used in prior RPG's, so that it's not that huge of a leap for them. Maybe she found it interesting and practiced on day's off, or maybe her adoptive father taught her how to use a sword. Maybe he joins the team and fights along side you.

So I wanted to give her a sword and a pistol, one on each holdster of her hip, and I thought that would be pretty cool lookin'. Also I never liked how in RPG's you get shot with bullets and you can get shot with a million bullets and you'll be just hunky dory. No when you get shot chances are your gonna' die. So we're thinking since she's an extreme sport junkie and this is the future. Maybe she's wearing Kevlar when she does her high altitude dives. It's insulating, and would protect from penetration if she possibly hits anything on her way down. Like if something else happened to be in the air while she's falling (I know unlikely but weirder shit has happened) and she hits it, with a human's terminal velocity being 65 MPH that object is gonna' fuck you up pretty bad, but less likely that it will penetrate if your wearing kevlar.

Then that kevlar would provide a reason as to why your not dying when you get hit by bullets. I was also kickin' around an idea of a kinda' "Energy shield", but I didn't want to have the player be invincible. So I was thinking, maybe it's a shiled that the player wouldn't see, but when they got hit by a bullet, it would stop the bullet from penetrating, but couldn't stop the momentum. So it would still hurt like a mother fucker, but wouldn't have the devestating effects of like the bullet blowing through your lungs and blood is flooding your lungs now.

So think kinda' Final Fantasy, but my game is not gonna' be anywhere near that good. Hopefully that kinda' helped out.

David Montgomery-Blake   (Jan 10, 2006 at 16:16 GMT)

Hmmm. I found Saw and Hostel to be horrible disappointments. The "quick-cutting" in Saw lasted about thirty seconds too long, taking away any impact and the plot was less of a thriller than a third-rate horror flick with a decent director of photography. Hostel may have been horrifying if I hadn't seen any 70's exploitation flicks. As it was, it just bored me. But I'm a bit weird when it comes to things that the mainstream decides are "extreme" in film. I often find them trite, predictable, and tiring.

You could always take the common Manga track of demonic/vampiric/alien/whatever blood infecting the (or the half-breed offspring). It provides an easy-to-recognize history without much explanation. Devil May Cry is not rich on story, and yet it is amazing the depth that people have added to the extremely sparse history and characters. Movies like Blade play into it perfectly. Then you do not need to explain "innate" abilities and yet allows for expansion whether in ability use or in buying of abilities ala DMC or Onimusha. Player will build your history for you if you give them an expansive framework. Just look at some of the crazy explanations that have come out of the convoluted plot in Xenogears. Xenosaga's, on the other hand, is spelled out explicitly which killed any need or desire for players to use their imagination.

What I would recommend is to think out your systems. Why does snowboarding/skateboarding/ wakeboarding/etc play into the game? Is it simply because it would somehow make it different or is it relevant? How does it add to the role the avatar the player is controlling. What, besides being a near-future RPG, sets it out from the pack? It is nothing like the MegaTen games, a series of near future/present-day titles which are popular in Japan and have had scarce releases here in the States. Not so much like Fallout, which is more developmentally styled than single-narrative. You are part of the overall arc, but your characters can work in a vast variety of ways. The singular narrative styles of FF's and Xenosaga do not necessarily need strong stories or characters. I haven't found many FF's to have that strong of a story or characters, but they were extremely well done, and the quality of the voice-acting and writing carried the sparse and predictable narratives forward. Most RPG's use similar storylines but are not nearly as polished, which is often their detriment.

It seems as if it is more of a narrative-based RPG rather than a systems based RPG. You will have to figure how to balance the system you incorporate beteen narrativity and performance. You don't want to advance the story too fast to make the players feel as if they are not playing a game so much as watching an interactive film (or do you?), but you also do not want to allow them to max out their characters in the first area and breeze through your well-set-up narrative.

Try to think in terms of practicality (as in what you can do right now, test, playtest, design and implement) rather than in realism unless that is the most important aspect of your game. If it is tangential (and it kind of is in RPG's since most of them have to accommodate things such as hit points and some way to heal your characters). Even using medkits in "realistic" games has an unreal effect for the most part. If you impale yourself on a spear, a bandaid isn't going to do a whole lot. A surgeon on the battlefield cleaning a gut-wound might, but then you get into the realm of "good enough" military field medical technology. "Good enough" being enough to get you out of the field or triage you out of action as a necessary loss. Not exactly the kind of thing most people want their main character in a RPG to experience. You'll notice that DEATH is one of the most-despised spells in RPG history. Making your character susceptible to death at every turn (literally, on the hill) is kind of like constantly casting status spells.

Well, I just wrote a long pile of crap. Just flesh things out into chunks that can be made, not just chunks that are interesting. Good luck.

Sam Bolton   (Jan 10, 2006 at 20:11 GMT)

Thanks a lot dude. You wrote some really good stuff. Some of those things I've been kicking around, and haven't decided, and some I haven't even thought about yet. So I really appreciate the feed back. If you got any more hints or something like that, it would be appreciated. Thanks a bunch dude.

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