RTS Kit Update

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Matt Huston   (Aug 20, 2008 at 19:27 GMT)

Sorry to hear that, not good for the community and indie games in general :(

Good luck with the game.

J.P. Berry   (Aug 20, 2008 at 19:32 GMT)

That's a bummer man. I know you guys spent a lot of time and energy on this. I don't understand why you can't release the starter kit because of IA. I mean, your product is a starter kit for developing games, IA is for playing games.

So what's the deal? Is it because GG would not likely publish any games that users might create with your starter pack, so you don't see the pack as being a success?

Josef Rogovsky   (Aug 20, 2008 at 20:37 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Wow, bummer!

I was really looking forward to this.

Good luck in finishing your game.

Jeremiah Fulbright   (Aug 20, 2008 at 21:12 GMT)

Sorry to see this, but I'm not surprised with the direction that GG was going with IA.

Best of luck with your game, look forward to seeing it!

Brett Seyler   (Aug 20, 2008 at 21:34 GMT)

Jonathon,

I'm not sure where or how you got this impression, but it's incorrect. We're still totally open to publishing any game on GG.com, not just IA. For quite a while we didn't have as much bandwidth to devote to GG.com games, but that's beefed up some in past months. We're actually putting together a plan for self-publishing in the near future. Again, sorry for any confusion or mixed messages. GG.com is still open for games publishing and games are still doing astonishingly well here despite the admittedly little attention we've given them in the past 6-9 months.

In any case, we really do hope you continue with the RTS Kit. I'm a little confused what one might have to do with another. Anyway, hope that clears thing up. Again, sorry if you got the wrong message and please do let me know privately how you came to this conclusion so I can resolve any mixed messages here.

Matt Huston   (Aug 20, 2008 at 21:56 GMT)

Thanks for clearing that up Brett.

Logan Foster   (Aug 20, 2008 at 22:01 GMT)

Personally I would be quite happy if IA became the publishing only arm of the company and GG became the engine/tech arm, it would certainly help focus things. Why exactly do I think this? Well the simple matter is that IA is setup to be a media friendly site to people who want to buy and play games, GG is setup to be a site that holds reams and reams of information for people who want to make games. As such, people who come to GG to play or buy games, don't usually do so because the site isnt designed for them.

As for the second part of your topic, I am confused why any sort of change, such as the one you outlined, would make a difference for your work on an RTS pack? Unless you are taking a % of the backend sales, which I do not believe you are doing, it really shouldn't be an issue where people buy their games at that use the tech you are lisensing out should it?

Jonathon Stevens   (Aug 21, 2008 at 01:29 GMT)

Thanks for the words everyone. I've spoken with Garage Games again and want to clear things up.

To answer the question of why publishing games has anything to do with the kit: The answer to that has two parts. The first is that I don't believe it's ethical and in the true sense of Indie spirit to create a starter kit for people to build games on a platform that GG isn't publishing for. Secondly, I felt the kit wouldn't sell nearly as well as word got out that no TXE games were going to be publishes through GG.com.

After speaking further with GG, apparently there was a miscommunication within the company and the information I was given was incorrect. This is fantastic news for us and we're very glad to hear this and work on the kit will resume.

John Kanalakis   (Aug 21, 2008 at 01:49 GMT)

This is great news (that you're back to making the kit)! I wasn't even thinking about GarageGames serving as the publisher. Instead, I think the big Indie opportunity is for self-publishing on Microsoft's Xbox Community LIVE Games platform. The reason I think an RTS Kit is so great for Torque X is because I love RTS games (!) and because Indies can make flavors of RTS games that no publisher will ever touch - like a Bug RTS game, or aggressive military plants & trees, or strategizing dinosaurs, or an atomic RTS with different isotopes battling it out. I for one plan to buy your kit (mostly interested in the 3D RTS ;) ) and am happy to hear that you're back on. Best wishes, Jonathon.

John K.

Josef Rogovsky   (Aug 21, 2008 at 02:31 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Crisis averted!

I've always hated console based RTS games (the UI always seems broken) so I understand why Jonathon would want to ensure a PC based delivery platform for games based on his creation.

John Kanalakis   (Aug 21, 2008 at 03:41 GMT)

Hey! Does that include LOTR Battle for Middle Earth ?!? I Love RTS on the console (admittedly a challenge to get right) but it's a lot of fun to spread out my massive armies on a big widescreen TV :) I have plenty of ideas around the RTS genre that would be tons of fun to play. With a solid RTS kit that lets me plug-in my own models and provides a UI framework along with some of basic logic, such as resource gathering and confllicts/attacking, I would have a lot of fun making a personalized RTS game.

John K.

Josef Rogovsky   (Aug 21, 2008 at 04:03 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

LOL!

(I'm not sure how much Jonathon appreciates us hijacking his blog...)

When I'm playing an RTS I like to have precise control of what I'm looking at. I like being able click on a point on the minimap and instantly having the camera move there. I haven't been able to reproduce that experience with any of the console RTS games I've played and have found panning across the game world to be frustrating.

I think the problem could be alleviated via the addition of voice control but XNA has not yet been extended to include microphone support.

I completely agree with you though that an indie effort represents the best chance for the console RTS UI problem to be solved because of the risks involved in breaking convention.

Chris Haigler   (Aug 21, 2008 at 05:33 GMT)

I was under the same impression as Jonathon; namely, that GG were exclusively publishing games via InstantAction. If that's not the case, the Solutions: Publishing (http://www.garagegames.com/solutions/publishing/) page needs to be updated as it pretty clearly indicates, "The GarageGames Game Store is one of the original online game stores and publishes the best independent and Torque games out there. We are not accepting new submissions for the Game Store while we focus on InstantAction; the game store is closed for new game publishing until further notice."

Brett Seyler   (Aug 21, 2008 at 06:54 GMT)

@Chris: That page is old and probably shouldn't be live anymore. I don't think there are any links to it that I know of. In any case, the "until further notice" part should have been followed up with better notice for sure. As I explained to Jonathon on the phone, there was a time earlier this year where we just didn't have the manpower to handle both IA and GG.com submissions, so we had to place priority on IA, but it was never our intent to offer IA as the only publishing avenue for Indies.

@L Foster: I don't think it makes sense for IA to be the only solutions now or in the near future. IA is a managed portfolio, not an open marketplace. We'd like to provide a more open solution similar to what Microsoft has done with XNA Community Games in the future. GG.com could be that. Potentially GGE could be that if we built the functionality in. Lots of options, but only so much stuff we can get done at once. Until a more elegant solution is available, the GG.com Games Store is a pretty tried and true way to reach gamers looking for Indie titles.

Jonathon Stevens   (Aug 21, 2008 at 07:21 GMT)

Quote:

---

I think the problem could be alleviated via the addition of voice control but XNA has not yet been extended to include microphone support

---

.net and xna already have built in microphone support (meaning so does TX), you just have to write your own methods to utalize it. One of the submissions during GDC when I was there building Simian Escape was a complete voice recognition game where you did most everything by voice.

Chris Haigler   (Aug 21, 2008 at 07:46 GMT)

@Brett: Just an FYI, The Company -> Contact link takes you to the 'Contact Us' page (http://www.garagegames.com/company/contact/) which still has a link to the 'Solutions: Publishing' page (http://www.garagegames.com/solutions/publishing/).

If the 'Solutions: Publishing' page is no longer in use, is there a better/more up-to-date place to go to learn about publishing games via GG?

Josef Rogovsky   (Aug 21, 2008 at 07:51 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

hmm... I'd like to get more info on this. Was the game you saw targeting Xbox?

Before I posted that previous comment I did a search on the Creators Club forums to see what others were saying about microphone support. Here's what I found: http://forums.xna.com/forums/p/7321/38700.aspx

"No there is no support for this item. Why not? Probbly becuase the team has a limited amount of things they can do in a short space of time."

Jonathon Stevens   (Aug 21, 2008 at 17:04 GMT)

ah, there's the disconnect. i develop to windows before i ever consider dev'ing to console. the microphone support is windows only, my apologies.

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