Illumina New Camo Screens and More

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Alan McCosh   (Aug 08, 2006 at 15:11 GMT)

for which platforms do you have dedicated server builds?

Chris \"C2\" Byars   (Aug 08, 2006 at 15:30 GMT)

To "polish up some areas"? You mean all of it? To be honest, Illumina still looks as if you guys just started the project a month ago... GUI, World, Model, Texture editing all needs a heck of a revision.

What you guys need:
-Antialiasing
-Higher polygon models
-Higher resolution textures and less stretching
-MAJOR HUD/GUI revision

Not being mean, I'm simply being observant; so no flame wars. :)

Tim Heldna   (Aug 08, 2006 at 15:45 GMT)

From C2

-Antialiasing
-Higher polygon models
-Higher resolution textures and less stretching

I agree but all those things kill framerate in TGE. More importantly they impede network performance. Plus, if Illumina is going to be using DRL, shadered water etc they're already forcing potential customers to have a moderately high end system to run the game efficiently. This really can't be justified given the overall rendering / performance quality of TGE.

I think for what they're using the Illumina team have done the best they possibly could. I haven't come across another fps game being made with TGE that compares to the overall quality and game play of Illumina.
Edited on Aug 08, 2006 15:52 GMT

Sean H.   (Aug 08, 2006 at 16:19 GMT)

looks nice! there does seem to be high degree of terrain texture stretching in the third and fourth images. other than that, this is looking sweet.

Hans Cremers   (Aug 08, 2006 at 16:41 GMT)

It's looking nice. Can't wait for the demo.

Phil Carlisle   (Aug 08, 2006 at 17:41 GMT)

www.dreamhosts.com has a 1terrabyte limit for its $7.99 a month account.. get one of those to host it?

Matt Vitelli   (Aug 08, 2006 at 17:44 GMT)

@Tim Heldna

Not entirely true..GLSL can adjust to low system requirements quite well.

@Ian I think AA might be a little too much but seriously, try adding in some more detail textures on the terrain. Also, do you have any screenshots of interiors? I'd love to see how the parallax shader looks.

Michael Cozzolino   (Aug 08, 2006 at 18:12 GMT)

I don't know but i'm excited to play it. Looks good to me.

Blake Lowry   (Aug 08, 2006 at 18:45 GMT)

@ C2:

"Not being mean, I'm simply being observant; so no flame wars. :)"

...Ya just like in Ian's last .plan you edited your post to not start a flame war. :) Your harsh comments are pretty funny given that a while back your Project Shadow game sure did.... ah nvm, I won't go there. You seem to rip on Illumina every chance you get for whatever reason.

@Ian: I think the camo skins look ok, definitely need those helmets in camo :P... when I update my build, maybe I can take some more shots of the characters a little less close up to show the camo working in the enviroment more, and post'em here.

@Matt: Here are some screens from Ians last post that depict the look of the game a little better. www.garagegames.com/blogs/5588/11009

Edit: Put the wrong name for Matt :P
Edited on Aug 08, 2006 18:46 GMT

Chris \"C2\" Byars   (Aug 08, 2006 at 19:52 GMT)

@Lowry: Oh really? I edited my last post on the other .plan because I knew you guys couldn't take constructive criticism, and would start striking attacks at each other's projects. Instead of taking every single criticism as a "rip on Illumina", why the hell don't you see what you can do to make Illumina the best it can be. Reason I'm giving such "harsh comments" is that you guys seem to display the feeling that your game is basically very close to being ready to go commercial or released or whatnot, and I can blatantly see that is is not. I KNOW even the old Torque Game Engine can take a lot more than you guys are putting into it, and instead of lowering the quality on every asset in the game to "support the older computers" like a Pentium II 166MHz, why not do what it takes to optimize your game to handle enough to compare with the competition in the FPS industry?

Quote:

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a while back your Project Shadow game sure did....

---

..look like Illumina, in either concept or graphic quality? Yeah, when we were only a month or two in development. Why don't you take a look at what it is now, even without antialiasing, lighting, or a focus on art development. I've done in 7 months alone what you guys took nearly 4 years to do, and Illumina still looks the same. Since you guys started. Sure you added a little more functionality in there, but you took out so much, and lowered your standards on quality, I don't know where you guys are going. There's so much potential, but none of that seems to be turning kinetic. I used to have respect for you guys, when you used to take things seriously and thought deeply into what needed to be done. But now, taking any bit of criticism and turning it into a personal attack, rather than taking a step back and looking into what makes your game strong... I shake my head at you and your ethic.
Edited on Aug 08, 2006 20:39 GMT

Blake Lowry   (Aug 08, 2006 at 21:05 GMT)

@C2: I have looked at what your project has become and it is looking better :)

Yes Illumina has been a long time in the making and you may have not known, but much of Illumina was redone and ported to 1.4 for stability and performance gains. Most of the game was redone from the ground up a few months ago to a game that is much more stable.

There were features taken out due to the fact that they didnt work right and were either buggy or seriously unbalanced. We wanted to streamline the game. A lot of the things you mentioned to enhance the game are things that TGE doesnt even support, so they sound sorta nit picky really. The texture resolutions are actually from high res sources but reduced to not bog down TGE, which doesnt handle extremely large textures well. Although I do agree higher res textures look better and we may put them in anyways. :) Current player models are at around 3500, in the mid to high range for TGE.

That said, Illumina is sorta changing again... Its a project that is always changing and really the game has totally changed from when if first started. Now, there has been the new grfx enhancements with all the lighting and all those effects. I just think that its cool that Ian has kept this project going on for so long and that it has gone through so many changes :) Who knows what the future of Illumina holds :P

BTW, your comment about not taking criticism is bogus, we even had a period for beta testing JUST for feedback. And you can't tell me your comment doesnt sound harsh...

"To "polish up some areas"? You mean all of it? To be honest, Illumina still looks as if you guys just started the project a month ago... GUI, World, Model, Texture editing all needs a heck of a revision."

@Ian: Sorry we had to throw your .plan off in a different direction.

Chris \"C2\" Byars   (Aug 08, 2006 at 21:21 GMT)

It was harsh.. my apologies. I agree Illumina has been advancing pretty well. Good luck on the further optimizations and content. :)

Sean H.   (Aug 08, 2006 at 21:32 GMT)

in my opinion, Illumina and Project Shadow both look very similar and very promising. hey, you guys should pool your resources and join forces to develop Illumina: Project Shadow. :)

Charles Andrew   (Aug 08, 2006 at 21:34 GMT)

that's really nice!

Ian Roach   (Aug 09, 2006 at 00:21 GMT)

Wow this thread has gone majorly offtrack..

Alan - at this stage windows only. Would love to do a mac or linux build but would need some volunteers to help build it.

Phil - Thanks for that. Will definetely try them out.

Chris - Wow Very Harsh. I dont see anything constructive with any of your suggestions. Considering youve had access to our beta and yet i havnt seen a single suggestion or criticism from you on our forums, why are you stating it here ? Heck why did you even apply for the beta ? Show me a torque game with AntiAliasing/Highres textures/highres models and runs at a good framerate. I would love to know there secret to success. Does TGE even support AA ?

Tim - Thanks for the support. Performance is exactly the reason why you dont see highres textures/models. Right now we are a team of 2, so were focusing on gameplay instead of graphics.

Matt/Sean H - There is definetely some bad terrain texturing. DRL tends to wash out terrain if not used properly, these are just test maps at this point so not concerned. All of the maps in the demo will have better terrain/detail textures.

Sean H - There was some talk about wanting to merge the 2 games but were already so close to release and i see no benefit in porting it all to TSE at the final hurdle.

Regardless of the criticisms a demo will be coming, ive never mentioned the idea of going commercial with illumina so dont expect much more enhancements on the graphics front in the way of model upgrades. For a team of 2 we are entirely focussed on getting the gameplay and bugs ironed out. If theres a chance for illumina to go commercial i would definetely take it , but lets just see how the demo goes before getting too far ahead of ourselves.

I think illumina stacks up well against any TGE game on the gfx front so i think we are in good shape.
Edited on Aug 09, 2006 00:25 GMT

Matt Vitelli   (Aug 09, 2006 at 00:26 GMT)

Ian, its just you and Blake?! This changes everything..you're using Alex's GLSL code though, aren't you? You could probably do some pretty neat post processing shaders. Mind if I ask though, what happened to the other members of your team?

Chris \"C2\" Byars   (Aug 09, 2006 at 00:40 GMT)

I see we're starting up the attacks again, meh.

Quote:

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Roach:
I dont see anything constructive with any of your suggestions.

---

Quote:

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Byars:
What you guys need:
-Antialiasing
-Higher polygon models
-Higher resolution textures and less stretching
-MAJOR HUD/GUI revision

---

And how is that not constructive, I ask?

Quote:

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Roach:
Considering youve had access to our beta and yet i havnt seen a single suggestion or criticism from you on our forums, why are you stating it here ?

---

I specifically made suggestions on your forums, but it appears you didn't acknowledge them, nor quite a few of your testers or their advice, as many of their threads go unnoticed/unreplied.

Quote:

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Roach:
Heck why did you even apply for the beta ?

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Maybe I wanted to help you guys with a view outside of your own team, one that doesn't believe Illumina is the end all best FPS ever from Torque, yet?

Quote:

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Roach: Show me a torque game with AntiAliasing/Highres textures/highres models and runs at a good framerate.

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Our Roo Racers uses 1024x1024 textures all around, 6x Temporal FSAA, 16x AF, and maximum quality mipmaps, including DRL and CG water at 200+ FPS consistently. (Sure our screenshots seem devoid of player models, as you may notice, due to the fact I like showing the pretty scenery that is capable, however I have stress tested this)

Quote:

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Does TGE even support AA ?

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If you turn it on, it does.

Blake Lowry   (Aug 09, 2006 at 02:36 GMT)

@ Matt: I think Ian is talking about a fellow named JC. I haven't worked on it lately since I got a new job sadly :(. I have contributed a lot to the game though, so thats why I butt in all of Ians .plans :D (Sorry Ian, hehe)...

Ian Roach   (Aug 09, 2006 at 02:45 GMT)

Matt - Its just me and another coder, blake and co have moved onto other things. Blake is still helping out from time to time. But right now its coders.

C2 - Im not trying to get into flamewars, but i did want to defend Illumina (as any developer would). Sure we dont have high res textures and models, but only becuase we dont have the team todo it, if i had the money and manpower of course i would , but you have to deal with what you have on hand :). Having said that i still think we stack up very well to every other tge game out there . Thinktanks/Minions/Ventura Africa/Monster Island e.t.c

I have seen the suggestions coming from the beta. We are addressing the ones we can, just becuase i dont acknowledge every suggestion doesnt mean we are looking into it, but like i said i doubt we could possibly get to them all.

Ill look into activating AA, from a search on these forums ive yet to see any code e.t.c that does it, but if torque supports it then we will make it an option. If you have the code to get AA on TGE please post as a resource, im sure alot of people would like to use it.

Roo Racers might support all that , but wait till you drop in particles/players/vehicles/animations e.t.c. Plus Roo racers is primarily terrain, not huge interiors. You will definetely see a drop in fps once you add all that in. Plus we are aiming for lower spec machines so everyone can play. I preferred more people playing with crappier gfx then not many ppl playing with great gfx.

If you can add all that into you game, be my guest and i will be the first to congradulate you, if i had the manpower i would do the same but in the meantime we will have todo with what we have.
Edited on Aug 09, 2006 03:03 GMT

Mark Berry   (Aug 09, 2006 at 09:57 GMT)

If you want a mirror, just email me. As things stand atm I can give you up to 200 gig transfer if necessary.

Looks good.

Cheers, Mark.

Chris \"C2\" Byars   (Aug 09, 2006 at 13:49 GMT)

To activate antialiasing just use the control panel on your graphics card display options. FSAA is broken in the current TGE/TSE, no in-game options for that, but if you force it on, it at least makes for better screenshots to show off a game, even if you don't get high framerates.

Ian Roach   (Aug 09, 2006 at 14:39 GMT)

Thanks mark, will definetely email you when the time comes.

C2-Oh i see, i thought you meant AA withing TGE, in future screens ill try turning on AA.
Edited on Aug 09, 2006 14:40 GMT

Stefan Lundmark   (Aug 09, 2006 at 15:16 GMT)

TGE has problems with translucent objects and alpha-sorting if you enable AA, so if you have that I would seriously reconsider using it.

Ian Roach   (Aug 10, 2006 at 00:01 GMT)

Thanks for the hint stefan, we do use a few translucent objects so could be a problem. Will test it out.

Blake Lowry   (Aug 10, 2006 at 03:07 GMT)

Ya, actually we have tons of things with transparency. Thanks for the tip Stefan!

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