Kork 2.0, halted work

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Mikael Pettersson   (Nov 04, 2008 at 10:17 GMT)

well you got it pritty far.
I hope someone will pick it up where you left off.

Guimo   (Nov 04, 2008 at 12:04 GMT)

Nice work, but honestly I would feel more than satisfied with a detailed model with at most 100k polys...

Garagegames should finish this model and make a 5 second animated intro for the garagegames logo using Kork to put before the game demos. Somebody should write a storyboard.

Apparatus   (Nov 04, 2008 at 12:17 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

The model is rather big (character) and if you lurk around zbrush central you would see that these models usually go over 10 million polys. That is, if you really want detail there. Once you're done, a maximum 7-8000 polys version (w is really the rough estimate for most biped character models nowadays) is totally doable and it will look perfect with normals applied.

Sean T. Boyette   (Nov 04, 2008 at 14:31 GMT)

Apparatus,

I would like to help get him finished up...
I can rig him, finish detailing him and maybe get him in engine!
shoot me an email..

Sean

Mark Dynna   (Nov 04, 2008 at 15:05 GMT)

I second the vote for an animated GG logo sequence using the Kork Ork. Good times.

Michael (silentMike) Hall   (Nov 04, 2008 at 15:29 GMT)

Now that looks like an orc made for ripping puny elves and humans in half! I'd love to have something like that reduced in complexity and able to use in game. Or at least a Korc re-skin with normals and such - none of that space orc goofiness.

I think that would make a killer GG logo sequence, more so than one of those cheesy cartoon character looking things they're using nowadays. Korc's been around for so long I think a lot of people associate him as a sort of Torque mascot.

Sean T. Boyette   (Nov 04, 2008 at 16:16 GMT)

I agree - I can assist with the animation/render - if this is something that GG wants to add as an intro.

Timothy Aste   (Nov 04, 2008 at 17:40 GMT)

Apparatus, if the polycount is killing the system, have you thought about breaking it down into pieces and doing those one at a time? IE, breaking out the chest and upper arm into a single model, breaking out the forearm into a single model, doing the shoulder pad, helmet, etc etc.

Also, not sure how useful this is since I haven't used Zbrush very extensively, but I remember being able to mask off portions of the mesh and hide them. This may be more practical than breaking it down into several pieces. So when you are a few subdivision levels in, you can hide all but the current spot you are working on, allowing you to increase performance dramatically.

I'm not sure if that will help with the switching between subdivision level speed or file load crashes, but it might make life a bit more manageable when actually sculpting.

Orion Elenzil   (Nov 04, 2008 at 17:51 GMT)

this is a pretty cool project,
even if it turned out to be prohibitive, it's great to see what that kind of polycount really means.
that's an awesome shader, too.

Apparatus   (Nov 04, 2008 at 18:30 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

@Sean ~ I can always use an animator; I think I will manage to finish this ~ this morning I was really upset after several machine hangs and half a pack of smokes : )
@Tima ~ aye, there's the 'subtools' option but I don't want to split this guy; however, even if subtools are used, generating a normal map in either zbrush or xsi it's impossible, I tried with the current polycount on a 256x256 resolution and it couldn't finish the render. So, hm, I kinda wish I had one of those bad arse nvidia machines (or a mac pro hehe);
An animated next-gen looking Kork might look quite cool. Maybe it's time to complete crossbow 2.0 as well :)

Again, people go for high polycounts because 1) it's possible, 2) great level of detail 3) why not? either for renders or for in game use (normal maps) this pipeline is the best thing since the sliced bread. After Torque technologies, of course :)

Kory James   (Nov 04, 2008 at 18:53 GMT)

I won't mind taking a shot at it!

Kory

Just send it to my email!

Apparatus   (Nov 04, 2008 at 19:01 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

edit: i figured the initial post is confusing a little bit; working on the model in zbrush ain't so much of a trouble, since I hide parts of the model anyways, rendering the normal maps is the problem.

Kory, i'll send you the files in a bit.

Phil Carlisle   (Nov 04, 2008 at 20:21 GMT)

FYI: Epic split thier model into parts, there is a limit of 100k polyies in an Obj file, so they split the model into less than that. Basically, they do the "hard" parts and the "Flesh" parts seperately.

Definitely want to break him up, basically do it per material type (i.e. per shader) and you should be good to go.

Apparatus   (Nov 04, 2008 at 20:40 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

As of lately, the 100k limit on obj is no longer there. I loaded a 900K one in Softimage.

Timothy Aste   (Nov 04, 2008 at 21:44 GMT)

Hmm, one other thing I thought of with rendering out normal maps from Zbrush (if it is choking) is splitting down the model into pieces, than using 3rd party software (free) like xNormal to render out the normal maps for each object, than use photoshop to put them back together and touch up the seams.

There is a Zbrush to xNormal pipeline tutorial here: http://www.antonkozlov.com/Tutorials/xNormal.html

Apparatus   (Nov 04, 2008 at 22:03 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

There are tons of ways in w to beat up a lousy rig but honestly I don't see why should anyone use a high end application only to break up the work into tiny bits and load it in 3rd party software like xNormal then again, piece them together. The whole point of modern hardware and fast pipelines is lost. Creativity dies really quick when you have to work like an engineer. That's the reason I am an indie, to avoid lousy pipelines and cog work on a schedule using cluttered pipelines.

It's a slap on the hand on its way with the brush towards the canvas.

Scott Warren   (Nov 05, 2008 at 00:50 GMT)

Apparatus, I can understand your frustration. I have been there in another field of work.
I personally would like to see YOU finish this, since it was your concept and nobody would do it quite like you do.
Thats not to say others cannot finish what you started, it's more of an artist thing.

Would really like to see you take a break from it, and return to complete it at some point.
Nice Job. very nice job.
I vote you stay with it.

James Brad Barnette   (Nov 05, 2008 at 01:53 GMT)

@Apparatus:
TA is correct as a matter of fact all that is the way all of the character for gears of war were done. But they were actually broken up before even going into Zbrush. If done properly this way you do not have to paint out seams as long as the model was broken properly. I suggest you read d'artiste: Character Modeling 2 there the whole pipeline for gears of war is explained in depth.

the main factor in Zbrush though is ram. Fortunately ram is cheap. The key is having a 64bit OS. Zbrush is a totally different application once you go 64bit and have more than 4GB. if you don't mind can you send me the Kork OBJ file? or post it some where and send me the link you will find my email in my profile.

Apparatus   (Nov 05, 2008 at 07:26 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

Scott - I will pick it up again anyway and at least get some more insight in ZBrush; Haven't used much the current version.
James, I'd love to read that book but cannot order it from here; even if I could the shipping is half it's price, it has to wait a bit; I have 2 other books (online contest) from Ballistic Publishing but this particular one was not published back then. I am doing a lot of junk work on a day to day basis for a living and I lack the time (and the hardware) to experiment more and actually gain experience. Thus the frustration and lack of patience at some point. I'll send you the obj though is merely based on the original orc, cleaned up of the plate and feet spikes.

edit: the obj is huge (700mb) so I'll have to send you the ztool instead;
Edited on Nov 05, 2008 07:29 GMT

Brian Wilson   (Nov 05, 2008 at 07:44 GMT)

How about we rally a bit as a community and let this great artist and asset to the Torque engines continue his work by supporting and buying some of his content packs?

Also another option is for the folks over at GG to donate a system to Apparatus as his drive, quality of work, and artist eye has inspired more than a few of us to keep with the current GG products rather than moving on to other engines.

I really hate to see an artist not be able to work because he can't afford paints...

Michael (silentMike) Hall   (Nov 05, 2008 at 11:51 GMT)

Quote:

---

How about we rally a bit as a community and let this great artist and asset to the Torque engines continue his work by supporting and buying some of his content packs?

---

When I first saw his Bridges Pack I was amazed at the detail. His Environment Pack was rich in atmosphere and is simply beautiful on it's own, it proved that old vanilla Torque was capable of looking good in a day when 3d artists rely more on shaders than they do on "real" technique. His Textures Pack was an incredible bargain for the sheer number of high quality seamless images, and he went the extra mile and made available handmade spec and normal maps - hundreds of high resolution shader ready textures. His Props Pack, his Doors Pack, even his Kaboom pack all contain contain a level of artistry and "awesomeness" that far surpasses any other content pack out there, especially for the price and the freedom of his EULA. Many other content pack providers would give you much less for more money.

I for one want to see more from him.

I understand your frustration Apparatus, but from where that orc up there is at right now is a major improvement over the stock model, or any other that ships with Torque - any engine. That would make a helluva nice normal map already. I can only imagine what he would like once you "painted" him. Sure someone else could finish him but you're the one who provided us with your vision of Korc 2.0 and it's far beyond awesome!

eb   (Nov 05, 2008 at 19:27 GMT)

I wanted to do the same thing you've attempted...I stopped just after I started because I noticed the UV-mapping of the GG-kork was done in 1995 style(overlapped UV coords).

I couldn't be arsed to remap it, sculpt it and then bake. Oh well.

- I do hope you finish yours sometime. I would like to see how you envisioned him. ;)
Good luck with it!

metalliandy   (Nov 05, 2008 at 20:50 GMT)

I would love to have a go at texturing this when someone finishes the HP+LP.
If anyone fancies letting me have a go, just throw me a PM when they are done :)

James Brad Barnette   (Nov 06, 2008 at 04:08 GMT)

if someone knows where I can find a source obj for the original Kork I will take a crack at it.

James Brad Barnette   (Nov 06, 2008 at 15:10 GMT)

Found the max files but they do not seem to be animated or have him in a T pose

BrokeAss Games   (Nov 07, 2008 at 12:28 GMT)

ZBrush FTW!
Lately some of the guys on my team have been muttering about projection master and high poly normals in their sleep.
Keep it up Apparatus, we're rooting for you!
I'll pick up the exploding pack in a few days to help show it. :)

Kory James   (Dec 22, 2008 at 19:33 GMT)

I was wondering if you are still trying to make a Kork 2.0 if so please drop a email, because i'm willing to help.

thanks

Kory James

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