MMORPG Kit Release is Imminent!

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John Klimek   (May 12, 2006 at 02:42 GMT)

I'm interested in this but my account on dreamrpg.com isn't fully activated yet... (I've posted in that thread as well)

Tom Spilman   (May 12, 2006 at 03:19 GMT)

@Dreamer - I've seen your posts before and been interested, but i still have no clue what the MMORPG Enhancement Kit contains. Looking at your website only confuses me further. How about a feature list and details on the licensing? Will there be a demo of any kind?

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 03:30 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Ok thats fair enough, the site is currently under a redesign to make it easier to use, that should be up (or mostly up) within 24 hours.
In the meantime to answer your questions about the licensing.
This kit or addon pack is licensed under exactly the same terms as the GarageGames Indy or Commercial license depending on what you currently have from GarageGames. This means as long as you comply with their terms you are in compliance with my terms.
In fact I was honestly hoping GarageGames would pick this thing up from me and run with it, hence the reason I just say "ditto" on the licensing thing.

Next is a feature list. The feature list is incredibly long, so at some point in the next 30 minutes or so, I will try to get one up for you, and maybe even some screenies. ;)

Regards,
Dreamer

Marcus   (May 12, 2006 at 05:42 GMT)

I thought this was free of charge.

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 05:49 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

The Kit was originally supposed to be just the result of changes made from the tutorial series.
However a feature request list made it so the download size of the kit became unmanageable (the tutorial series changes amount to about 10MB the Kit is now at 350MB), so we decided to improve the kit to something from which you would have to do alot of tinkering with, to something rock solid stable that you could simply add content and go.
Thats when we went pre-release and started the $10 per month SVN access now 3 months later we have finished the kit and it includes not only source code and script mods, improvements and enhancements but hundreds of MBs of starter art and other things. (I really do need to go through and make a feature list). Anyways something like that cannot be given freely. However access to the website itself and the revised tutorials is and will remain free as well as access to the community services such as IRC etc.

Regards,
Dreamer

Marcus   (May 12, 2006 at 06:15 GMT)

Cool. Looks very promising. I would definately be interested in taking a look at the feature list. How many players will the 'average' server support?

Yannick Lahay   (May 12, 2006 at 06:23 GMT)

At the beginning it was free of charge yes.
Now it's going to cost 100$ by month, too expensive for me...
In 2 months, you pay more than the price of the Indie license, for a kit (even if it's a great kit).
So, I'll see later...

Anyway, there are too many MMORPGs actually, it's better to create something new.
If you make a game with a kit inspired from the other MMORPGs, there will be nothing new about the gameplay. All will be about the quests, the graphics, ... like many commercial MMORPGs!
So, people will play your game because of the price, if the quality is comparable to the other MMORPGs.

Vashner   (May 12, 2006 at 06:32 GMT)

I don't get the pricing. But i'll be really interesting in looking more into it.

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 06:38 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Ok well first off that "average server" is a bit of a misnomer.
There are 4 primary factors that determine how many players you can support

#1 Your hardware and OS setup. For the number I give we are talking about an AMD Athlon 2200 +XP with 256 MB's ram running Gentoo Linux stripped bare with use flags optimized for TGE and no extraneous processes, also the box is tighly locked down and only responding to the ports needed for the game and game management, also SSH has been moved to a far distant port so SSH isn't busy suffering from dictionary cracks etc.

#2 Your network connection, For the number I give you we are talking about 150MBs dedicated multihomed connection 2 hops from the back bone. I have average latency of 80ms the server is in florida and I am in Utah.

#3 Your clients hardware, There is a limit to the number of units you can render on screen at a single time, the more objects you have on screen (in scope) the slower the game goes, this is because your HW has to process every movement for everything in game. The clientside engine will lag to a standstill with 200+ units on screen at once regardless of if they are all AI or seperate client connections.

#4 Are you talking simultaneously connected clients or how many users can you have? No one (unless they are a bot), is going to be connected 24/7 average length of play time in an MMORPG is roughly 6-7 for a "non-casual" gamer, admittedly this is just my own experience but if my WoW and EQ guildmates were any indication, thats probably a good figure, this means that for each connection slot you can support about 4 users (24 / 6 = 4) so you total number of players would be your total number of connection slots * 4.

That said an "average server" can handle easily about 250 users at a time and still deliver a playable game, this gives a figure of approx 1000 users you can support total per server while delivering a quality experience and of course thats assuming your zone is a bit spread out so everyone is not on everyones screen at the same time.

However, as I said your milage will vary alot, and higher end hardware, more ram faster net connection etc, will in turn produce better results. Also finally, thats a perzone figure and assuming you are only running a single zone per server (BTW we have the capability to zone from server to server in the game as well)

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 06:40 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@Yannick thats not $100 per month, thats $99 flat fee one time charge, the $10 per month is for SVN access to future updates and even then you get 90 days of SVN access free of charge.

@Randy, can you elaborate pls on your question and I'll try to get it answered as quickly as possible.

BrokeAss Games   (May 12, 2006 at 07:13 GMT)

Dreamer, good job man.
I've had the kit for awhile and I'm really impressed with what I've seen.
It has a ton of killer stuff for just about any RPG and even some FPS.
Mobs, loot, skills XP, quests, vendors, crafting, drag'n'drop inventory pretty much the stuff you see in all good games.
I've been developing my game for some time now and I still grab pieces from this kit almost daily.
There's some custom artwork in there too.
As far as I know there is no complete RPG kit out there, but this is a great base.
I do see alot of people show up expecting to see My Uber MMO Maker.
This isn't the Big World engine for $100, remember this is Torque.
Right here, I'd love to spew a couple hundred features of Dream, but it's not my place.
Dream is ready to run after following quite a few pages of instructions and howto's for database and server stuff (took me about 30 mins the first time).
Configuring, running and building an online game is not a light task and the setup may take a bit.
Dreamer is usually around IRC to help out and if not there is usally at least one person who can help.
Anyways, to me the $10 a month gets me code that I may have written next week or never thought of and $100 gets me an online RPG Howto with a working example.

Ari
Edited on May 12, 2006 07:16 GMT

James Laker (BurNinG)   (May 12, 2006 at 07:49 GMT)

I'm waiting for that list :)

Gareth Fouche   (May 12, 2006 at 08:24 GMT)

Me too.

Personally, Dreamers tutorials have been a huge aid in making my single player RPG, so if there is a lot of good stuff I can use I will buy this kit. And I really hope the stuff for riding a horse is in there, with some test models to play with. :)

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 08:38 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Yes horses are in, and I'm trying to hurry with that feature list as quick as I can ;)
Sorry for the delay guys.

Gareth Fouche   (May 12, 2006 at 08:50 GMT)

No worries man, we're just eager. ;)

Hooray about the horses. Hmmm, one thing that might also be good to do is make a video showing off the feature set and releasing that. Sometime when you're not as busy ;) Hehe.

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 10:43 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Here is a partial list of features that are implemented there's alot more than this, but I'm spending too much time thinking and not enough finishing so this and the release notes I've been posting all along on the website are going to have to do for now until I get the Final Release announcement up later today...

crafting
skills
experience
Player Levels
NPCs
mob spawns
loot drops
dynamic questing
chat system (/tell /say etc)
IRC based lobby
crafing and tradeskills
click'n'pick target selection
drag'n'drop inventory system
drag'n'drop toolbars
multiple modes of interaction
factions
melee combat system
spell combat system (DD, DOT, AOE, etc)
groups
guilds
vendors
mounted pets
multiple database format support (ODBC and more)
multiple characters with persistent login
multiple races
advanced AI awareness modes
emotes
character positions (standing, kneeling, sitting, swimming)

Hege Berntsen   (May 12, 2006 at 11:09 GMT)   Resource Rating: 4

Cant wait until BF gets home, so i can see more. (Since he is the SDK owner i cant see all the candy stuff. I do respect the "one seat" thing, but today its not easy to wait. I want it (see it), and i want it NOW!). he he

Patience... To bad I cant buy that for money. I am sure that it would have been a BIG hit if it could be sold. :)

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 11:42 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Oh yeah that reminds me...
Arteria Games is going to include some buildings and music from their various content packs

Cameron Jensen   (May 12, 2006 at 12:49 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I would gladly pay $99.00 just for all of the hard work that's gone into this kit. Everybody who is doing their part in it is extremely friendly, and most spend their entire day fixing bugs and adding features, art, and who knows what all.

In my opinion it's definately worth it, although I do understand some of you may not be able to afford it, it's really about the best deal out there if you compare it to any other MMO packages.

Also, Yannick, I think most people buying the kit will not leave any remains as to what they made it with other than the obvious. Of course it's important to have a unique game, but that is most definately possible, and not hard. Even though it will come with default art and code, it's as flexible as can be so it can be changed to just about whatever.

So anyway, great job!

Alan Hembra   (May 12, 2006 at 13:57 GMT)

First off, I've been a paying subscriber to Dreamer's site for awhile. So I say this is a great kit! It's helping with my Single Player RPG tremendously.

@Dreamer & Arteria - But I do feel a little annoyed that parts of packs I already paid Arteria for may be included in another product I've purchased. Almost feels like paying for it twice. However, I understand the dynamics so I'll get over it.

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 14:05 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Well Alan, I wouldn't feel too annoyed with that fact.

#1 We will have an announcement coming with the release of the kit that will blow the socks off of anyone who already owns both the kit and anything from Arteria.

#2 The stuff in the MMO Kit from Arteria does not include source art, and like the GUI stuff from Dark Profit, it is there to showcase his talents and drive business his way as well as provide more content for the Kit.

#3 The Kit is still a community effort, and anyone who wants to showcase anything relevant to the kit is more than welcome to hop in IRC let us know about it and contribute.

Speaking of which Alan, thank you for everything you have done to make this kit a success, you are right, you have been with us for a very long time. And I really appreciate everything you have done around the place.

Fucifer   (May 12, 2006 at 16:04 GMT)

Dreamer, I have try get access to your web site but never get the verication email. I have email everyone i could think but no respond. I going try agian under fucifer
Edited on May 12, 2006 16:04 GMT

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 16:09 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

If this rpullen2@nc.rr.com is your email address, your email server is bouncing all of our emails with this response...

Final-Recipient: RFC822; rpullen2@nc.rr.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554-orngca-mx-05.mgw.rr.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 19:01:45 -0500

Try one of those free email providers like Gmail or Hotmail or something please.

Fucifer   (May 12, 2006 at 17:02 GMT)

Ok, I just complete the register under fucifer65, I put my stuff on link here at GG, I pretty much I have all. What do need to to get the $10.00 month fees?

Bryan Stroebel   (May 12, 2006 at 19:13 GMT)

I have not ued this kit yet. However, I have read through the docs and I would have no problem paying $100. Just think about how much time you would have to spend to replicate this work.

Great job dreamer.

Dan -   (May 12, 2006 at 19:29 GMT)

Any chance a video or demo could be created to see the pack in action?

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 20:37 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Yes videos and demos are being made as we speak.

Dreamer   (May 12, 2006 at 21:53 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

By the way, here's a sneak peek at what the new site will look like (please don't try to login or create an account, I'm just doing this to annoy the web developer;) The website of the future!

Alan Hembra   (May 15, 2006 at 14:08 GMT)

@ Dreamer - cool man. I thought about it over the weekend as well and decided (before reading your response today) that it's no big thang. So instead I went and bought another Arteria content pack. :)

Now I"m just holding on to my nickers and waiting to get my socks blown off.

Thanks for the nice comment. I haven't really done much. Just paid my monthly fee mostly. Oh yea - I bought the horsey.
Edited on May 15, 2006 14:10 GMT

Dragoness   (May 31, 2006 at 23:23 GMT)

Any script or any plans for seamless zones? I'm a newbie, sorry.

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