Plastic Tweaker for Sale

Submit your own resources!

David Montgomery-Blake   (Oct 23, 2008 at 13:50 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Congratulations on the release of this! It is definitely an awesome resource for Torque developers!

Edward   (Oct 23, 2008 at 14:29 GMT)

Will this be expanded to include possibly making a AFX version of this. Perry started a version of it, This would seem like a long way to toward making it a reality. But great work otherwise.

Surge   (Oct 23, 2008 at 15:34 GMT)

Will this work to tweak the Material.cs for TGEA?

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 23, 2008 at 17:26 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@Edward - It should work with AFX out of the box, use the tweaker to find the datablock you want to tweak and it generate a panel for you.

@Surge - Similarly it will also work with Material datablocks out of the box.

mb   (Oct 23, 2008 at 17:42 GMT)

What changes are there from the free resource? Looks awesome btw.

jydog   (Oct 23, 2008 at 18:12 GMT)

I see TGE, TGEA and TGB listed as supported. But I only see TGE and TGEA listed in the supporting docs. Is TGB supported? Will it be better supported in the future?

Konrad Kiss   (Oct 23, 2008 at 19:09 GMT)

Congratulations! Finally, an easy way to work with lights and particle emitters. Not to mention vehicle physics fine-tuning. Epic awesomeness.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 23, 2008 at 20:12 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@MB - Those who purchase the Plastic Tweaker will be allowed to save dircetly back into the original files. The nag screen will also go away. If you had an earlier version both the retail and demo versions has improved Auto Typing; giving you default types and comments for ALL standard Torque datablock properties. Meaning you can impliment this into stock torque without ANY C changes.

@jydog - Currently we don't support TGB do to how TGB 's gui source has been altered, however Associate James Ford was working on a possible fix, at which point we would gladly generate TGB version.

mb   (Oct 23, 2008 at 20:16 GMT)

@Anthony

Awesome, thanks! Great resource. I was just going to make my own, now I don't have too!

Surge   (Oct 24, 2008 at 14:39 GMT)

Im working with the trial version right now. And I Must say its pretty nifty.

However when in a Material.cs_ material definition.
When I choose a different jpg or png for a material
it doesnt update it. Is this because its the trial version or
just the way the tweaker works?

Pat Wilson   (Oct 24, 2008 at 17:58 GMT)

Surge, does calling the script function 'reloadMaterials' fix that?

Surge   (Oct 24, 2008 at 18:25 GMT)

It doesnt seem too....

Heres what im doing.
Im tweaking an inside wall of my structure.
I can adjust all the other settings specular,translucency,color...etc
When I select a new JPG or PNG nothing happens

I exit hit ~ and reloadMaterials


Nothing happens....

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 24, 2008 at 19:18 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

We don't think this matters but. . .
Does this happen when the filename does not contain underscore or dashes?
Edited on Oct 24, 2008 19:19 GMT

Surge   (Oct 24, 2008 at 20:30 GMT)

Yes I can select a simple named JPEG through the file select button , say.. sfbwall.jpg.
After selecting it it shows the full path in the file name box but in the 3d View
....nothing happens .

Then I try ~ reloadMaterials

console windows processes

.... but


Nothing happens....
Edited on Oct 24, 2008 20:31 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 24, 2008 at 21:57 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

In 1.7.1 from main menu

I was able to make a new panel


Change the file


Save and close the Tweaker.

Type reloadMaterials(); in the console;

Look at the orc model in the options menu

Edited on Oct 24, 2008 21:58 GMT

Surge   (Oct 24, 2008 at 22:29 GMT)

Do you think its because I have a trial version and cannot save?
Thats what I was wondering from the begining?

But shouldnt the material change happen in real time?
Instead of having to close down and open back up.
Thats the purpose of the tweaker right?

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 25, 2008 at 00:07 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@ Surge

Ok so I spent a couple hours working on this, there seems to be some funkiness in how models are loaded and how textures and materials all work together.

First off it seems Materials should not be used to swap texture on models, that is what exporters are for.

If I have material




The Material system is looking on the model for textures that were exported with it such as orc_ID6_eye and holds a pointer to it. I can make it the material that it is associated with tweakable with a callback for real time feedback.




If you changed the texture and saved it would update the texture. Alas the resulting material would not be any good afterwards, because the model was exported with a certain texture, which was just changed. So next load of the application it would not find the texture and in turn not to associate the material with it with.

Moral is, use Tweaker to adjust values not swap texture on models.
Edited on Oct 25, 2008 01:27 GMT

Konrad Kiss   (Oct 25, 2008 at 07:00 GMT)

Just as Anthony said, materials rely on the original texture. On the other hand, if you change a material, that will change all shape instances that work with the material by default.

To be able to swap textures (and thus, materials) on a shape, your best bet would be to clone a material, unlink it from the texture it was linked to (via mapTo) and change the appropriate texture. Then, assign the new material instance to the shape instance.

Gareth Fouche's already done this, so you might want to check out his excellent TGEA Dynamic Skins & Material Swapping resource.

Surge   (Oct 25, 2008 at 12:54 GMT)

What I think is Unusual is this.....

If this is my material definition for "ceiling"





And I physicaly Change it with a texeditor to read this....




Upon a reboot I will see the "ceiling" change to the new material.
Im keeping the mapTo call the same in both.
I will see the Ceiling change to a different material.

Now I know I would never want to completley swap out
materials like that but for instance I might have
ceiling1.jpg or ceiling2.jpg or ceiling3.jpg that use diffferent color
schemes.

Or I might have different Normal Maps made.
That I would like to see change without having to close down TGEA
and reboot it again.

And although Im loving the Plastice tweaker.....
The only downfall with it that im seeing is that
When I change....



and I dont change the


Nothing is Refreshing......

even with a reloadMaterials call.

Quote:

---

Moral is, use Tweaker to adjust values not swap texture on models.

---

I understand your point here Anthony but like I was saying above
what If I wasnt swapping textures completley but instead had
3 or four Different color Schemed Textures that I just wanted to
swap in an out to see what looks best in game.



And thats why my first question was....

Do you think Im not seeing this update because I have the Trial Version
and not the Full version that can save?
Edited on Oct 25, 2008 13:03 GMT

Kirk Alberts   (Oct 25, 2008 at 17:31 GMT)

@Surge

I don't think the problem lies in the fact that you have the trial version. As I understand it, the trial version is fully featured. It just won't let you save...

What you are asking for would be a very cool utility. I'm not sure if our Tweaker will allow you to do this YET. Like you, my gut says that's something in the mapTo call. We've had some problems with it in the past.

Even though the Tweaker is out and ready to be used, we're still absorbing wants and needs of users to improve our product and make it a better tool.

Please don't get frustrated. These are things we're working on and want to work out with developers who will use our tool.

We might be able to hone in on a solution quickly so bare with us. =)

Regardless. Thank you for trying it and giving us feedback.

Kirk Alberts
Artist - Plastic Games
Edited on Oct 25, 2008 17:33 GMT

Surge   (Oct 25, 2008 at 19:21 GMT)

Thanks Kirk,

Youve anwsered my question.
The Tweaker Utility does not update when BaseText or BumpText
has been updated while maintaing the mapTo Function.

I will still have to close down and boot back up to see those
types of changes.

Regardless - still an A1 piece of software.


Surge

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 00:00 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I can't seem to get the plastic tweaker working properly on TGEA 1.7.1. I've tried this three times, each time on a clean copy of TGEA 1.7.1. Each time I try to add a new tweak, TGEA crashes on me. This crash is consistent, and happens every time:

1. Integrate Plastic Tweaker into a clean TGEA 1.7.1 (stronghold game example), following the installation instructions.

2. Run TGEA, and start the "barebones" mission.

3. Open the world editor. (world editor inspector)

4. Press ctrl-t to bring up the plastic tweaker GUI

5. Click File->New in the PT GUI to create a new tweak

6. Uncheck the "only common types" checkbox

7. Click the pulldown arrow for "type" to select a type.

8. The engine crashes.

Here's the tail end of the console.log, just prior to the crash:



There are also some pretty obvious errors in the console related to the PT:



The file structure in the plastic folder doesn't seem to match what is expected... Can someone at Plastic Games double check the install instructions and the contents of the shipped "plastic" folder for TGEA? Is anyone else having this problem?

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 26, 2008 at 00:34 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@joseph
Debut question 1)
Does it crash when checkbox is not changed?

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 00:40 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quote:

---

Does it crash when checkbox is not changed?

---

Not right away :-) If I don't click the checkbox, I can choose from ~3 different datablocks, but the new tweak never shows up in the list or on the screen.

The second time I tried integrating it, I also tried shuffling the files in the "plastic" folder around to get rid of the "file not found" console errors (also had to copy some of them out of the folder to other locations, but didn't take notes). That gets me a bit further, I can uncheck the checkbox and create new tweaks, the tweaks show up, but I get random crashes when interacting with the tweak GUI. I also noticed that after creating a tweak and saving it, the tweak did not show up in the list on subsequent runs/mission loads, but if I tried to create the same tweak again PT would tell me that it already exists.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 26, 2008 at 00:46 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Hmmm we will investigate this further. . .

The missing file is Plastic Gem #37: Plastic Tweaker Support see if it improves the situation

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 01:27 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

OK, quick question (sorry to be difficult) :-) In which resource/gem is the 'shiny' folder created? Should I just start implementing the Gems from #1, and if so, are there any that can be skipped if I just want the tweaker working on an otherwise clean TGEA 1.7.1?

edit - nevermind, found the shiny folder :-) I haven't really messed with the GUI code much and didn't know it was there, or where it was.
Edited on Oct 26, 2008 05:07 GMT

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 07:06 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I've implemented Plastic Gems #2 #3 and #37

I've also implemented the gameFunctions.cpp changes from Plastic Gem #5. It seems that isJugg is not defined, but still used in \plastic\audio\audioManager.cs, so I thought, better safe than sorry.

Still no joy, same crash.

I was getting this error just prior to the crash:


So I copied the \plastic\controls folder into the tools folder (\tools\controls), which gets rid of the console error, but unfortunately not the crash. Just prior to the crash, this is now written out to the console log:



I'm also still getting the following error in the console:


I don't have this file, so not much that I can do about this one :-)


Here's the callstack for the crash:


Edited on Oct 26, 2008 07:06 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 26, 2008 at 12:43 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I know guiUtil.cs won't be a problem, it is some legacy stuff we forgot to clean up, still pondering

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 17:23 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Found another console error, not sure how I missed this one last night:



I made the following change to \plastic\init.cs, to make sure this gets initialized via the init chain, since tweakServer.cs is in \plastic\server\tweak (not sure that it wasn't also being exec'ed elsewhere):



Still crashing.

From the traceback, it looks like the RectI extents for one of the scrollbar bitmaps are uninitialized, I'll dig around and see if I can find out why that's happening.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 26, 2008 at 18:16 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Something is funky must be happening the exec("./tweakServer.cs"); call should be in plastic/server/tweak/init.cs

This gets called from. Step 3 ( for TGEA ) or step 4 in (TGE) installation instructions. could you email me your full console log.

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 26, 2008 at 18:23 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quote:

---

Something is funky must be happening the exec("./tweakServer.cs"); call should be in plastic/server/tweak/init.cs

---

It is being exec'ed there, but there was this line in \plastic\init.cs that was causing the file not found error:


I commented that out, since tweakServer.cs is not in the root plastic folder, and replaced it with an exec for ./server/init.cs.

Email sent.
Edited on Oct 26, 2008 18:27 GMT

Steve D   (Oct 26, 2008 at 23:02 GMT)

I bought it this morning and I think this is excellent, especially where particle datablocks are concerned.

My one wish and I think it would make a great addition - an option to have all the datablock variables tweakable instead of just what the user has defined in script.

But as is I think it will be a real time saver!!

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 02:52 GMT)

Testing first in TGEA 1.7.0

What does this mean:

(NOTE: Make sure this function is NOT commented out via the macroprocess #ifdef TORQUE_TOOLS Block)

Should I move the function so it's not in between the #ifdef lines?


I tried both ways and I hit ctrl-t and nothing happens. I've done everything in the install guide.
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 03:21 GMT

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:27 GMT)

--------- Initializing: Plastic Gems ---------
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweakServer.cs!
--------Initializing: TWEAKER--------------------
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/strUtil.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/guiUtil.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakManager.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakParser.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakSource.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakSupport.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakTabSheet.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakTab.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweak.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakConnect.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweak/tweakLoad.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakControlFactory.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakControlFormatter.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakSelectControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakLabelDivider.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildDivider.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakPanelMouseGrabber.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakPanelPopupMenu.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakLabelControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakComboBox.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildSliderControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildBooleanControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildCheckBoxControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildFilePickerControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildPointPickerControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildRectPickerControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildColorPickerControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakControls/tweakChildEaseControl.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/plasticGUI.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/plasticGUI.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakWindow.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakMessageBox.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakMessageBox.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakPickerGUI.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakPickerGUI.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakListEditor.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakListAdd.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakListModify.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakListEditor.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakPropertyWindow.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakPropertyWindow.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweak/tweakCreatePageGUI.cs!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakCreatePageGUI.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/tweakColorPicker.gui!
Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/ui/plasticProgressGUI.gui!
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (20): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (21): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (22): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (23): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (24): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (25): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (26): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (27): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (28): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (29): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedFunction'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (41): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedArray'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (53): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedArray'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (61): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (62): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (63): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (64): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (65): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (66): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (67): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (68): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (69): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (70): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (71): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (72): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (73): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonDataBlockType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (76): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonObjectType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (77): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonObjectType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (78): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonObjectType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (79): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addCommonObjectType'
tools/plastic/tweakUtil.cs (0): Unable to find object: 'TweakManager' attempting to call function 'addPredefinedArray'
--------TWEAKER - Initialized--------------------
--------- Plastic Gems - Initialized ---------
% - Initializing Plastic
% - Initializing Mission Editor
% - Initializing Gui Builder
% - Initializing Debugger
Engine initialized...

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:27 GMT)

Edited on Oct 27, 2008 03:33 GMT

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:32 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

There should be a "plastic" folder in the zip file "\PlasticTweakerRelease_v1.1\PlasticTweakerRelease\PlasticTweaker1.0.3\scripts\licensed_TGEA\plastic" that needs to be copied to the tools folder (step 1).

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:34 GMT)

Hi Joseph,

Thanks it is in the tools folder. I did all the steps... not sure whats wrong.

C:\Torque\TGEA_1_7_0\GameExamples\Copy of Stronghold\game\tools\plastic
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 03:35 GMT

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:36 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Well, mine has the .cs files in it, maybe the .zip has changed since I downloaded it a couple of days ago :-)

edit - it looks like maybe all the sub-folders are missing, or didn't get copied over?
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 03:39 GMT

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 03:40 GMT)

Missing file: C:/Torque/TGEA_1_7_0/GameExamples/Copy of Stronghold/game/tools/plastic/tweakServer.cs!

That file is not in the right place. I found it here:

C:\Torque\TGEA_1_7_0\GameExamples\Copy of Stronghold\game\tools\plastic\server\tweak

and another path that makes no sense (link to image below):

[img=http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/474/tweakingxe9.th.jpg]
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 03:49 GMT

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 05:27 GMT)

Ah that must be it Joseph ... god i've wasted hours trying to fix it ... !!!!

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 05:31 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Was that sarcasm?
Just trying to help... I'll shut up now, since I still haven't gotten the thing working myself :-)

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 05:48 GMT)

No I didnt mean it like that sorry, I'm saying you were right :) At least I think so since mine appears to be missing files.

Thanks for the help btw!

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 05:56 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

OK, sorry for misinterpreting :-) From the screenshot you posted it looked like there was something far stranger than I had though going on.

As far as the problems I'm having go, I think it comes down to this:

There's something wrong with the GUI profile for the combo boxes. As long as there aren't enough items in any of the pulldowns to make a scrollbar show up, everything seems to work fine. The second the combobox tries to draw a scrollbar, TGEA crashes.

I'm also having some other problems with resizing the PT window after maximizing the TGEA window. Resizing by dragging the lower right corner of the tweak GUI causes it to go crazy and start randomly resizing all over the place with each subsequent mouse click, eventually settling on a size too small to be usable. The problem does not occur if I leave the TGEA window at its default (tiny) size.

I think I've done just about everything I can think of, so I'll just sit back and wait for the next version. Plastic Games, let me know if there's any further info you need to help track down or replicate these issues.
(edit - typos)
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 06:01 GMT

Paul Dana   (Oct 27, 2008 at 12:05 GMT)

Joseph,

Thanks for all the hard work looking into these bugs. We will try to figure out what is going on with combo-box scroll bar issues and with resizing. We will be trying to reproduce these errors. If we have any trouble we may ask for help reproducing the problems if we can't make them happen.
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 12:05 GMT

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 14:35 GMT)

Hi Paul,

Any idea why I can't get it to work in TGEA? It says missing files but the Plastic folder is where the setup guide says it is supposed to be. I followed every instruction. Can you check the .zip file at garagegames and see if all the files are indeed there, because I beleive they are not. Thanks.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 14:36 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@Joseph

I just installed 1.7.1 and added the tweaker to source, yet I did not get the results you are seeing.

I wonder, how did you implimented Step 4 the pathCopy() function ?

It should be added to console\fileSystemFunctions.cpp at the bottom of the file just before "ConsoleFunctionGroupEnd( FileSystem );"


I do see the checkbox ( not checked) crash, I do not see the panel not scaling or scrolling issues.
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 15:00 GMT

Edward   (Oct 27, 2008 at 15:16 GMT)

has anyone had a rash of items that crashing my game

onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18486
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18487
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18488
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18489
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18490
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18491
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18492
onEditorRender: undefined for object '(null)' - id 18493

it states every object in the level as undefined. I did not have this error before putting in the tweaker. my console is nearly 40mbs full of these errors.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 15:28 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@ Edward that one s new to me


@Joseph

It seems the checkbox bug is related to the Stronghold Game Example, if I move my new exe and add the plastic folder, changes to main.cs and sever/scripts/game.cs to T3D example all works fine. Could you try on that code base.

I belive the Strong hold example is a community port of TGE scripts so it is likely that some legacy stuff isn't jiving with newer builds. Projected 2nd rule of thumb here is - use T3D as base for new projects =)
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 15:29 GMT

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:12 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quote:

---

Projected 2nd rule of thumb here is - use T3D as base for new projects =)

---

Unfortunately, T3D does not seem to be set up for multiplayer, making it a poor starting point for what I'm currently trying to do :-)

I suspect the only reason it works in T3D is that there aren't enough objects/datablocks in those lists to make a scrollbar appear. I'll eat my words if you can show me a screenshot with a scrollbar being drawn in one of those popups :-)

Quote:

---

I wonder, how did you implimented Step 4 the pathCopy() function ?

---

I added it at the end of the file, but before the "#ifdef TORQUE_TOOLS" block, as instructed. I also tried adding it after the #ifdef block, and that made no difference whatsoever.

Quote:

---

I do see the checkbox ( not checked) crash, I do not see the panel not scaling or scrolling issues.

---

You'll need to resize or maximize the TGEA window, then try to resize the Plastic Tweaker window and you'll see it :-)

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:16 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I've also been trying to add the tweaker comments manually, but I'm still not getting anything to show up in the tweak selection pulldown. Do you see anything wrong with this?

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:34 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:37 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quoting myself here, emphasis added:

"I'll eat my words if you can show me a screenshot with a scrollbar being drawn in one of those popups :-)"

I'm referring to the combo boxes. Let me quote myself again just to be clear:

"There's something wrong with the GUI profile for the combo boxes. As long as there aren't enough items in any of the pulldowns to make a scrollbar show up, everything seems to work fine. The second the combobox tries to draw a scrollbar, TGEA crashes."
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 16:37 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:39 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

In reguard to the manual insertion, by using the //P[ convention you are saying that the tweak should appear in the play menu which is loaded when in game, are you loading the tweaker in game or in the main menu?


Hmmm, Combo box does not get a scroll bar it just expands as needed
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 16:42 GMT

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:42 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

In the game, after loading the mission.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:43 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Scratches head. . . are you a Mac user?

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:43 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quote:

---

Hmmm, Combo box does not get a scroll bar it just expands as needed

---

And yet, it's trying to draw a scrollbar when the crash occurs (see stack trace that I posted above). Perhaps that's the problem, it's trying to draw a scrollbar when it shouldn't?

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 16:43 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Quote:

---

Scratches head. . . are you a Mac user?

---

Windows XP, sp3

Joseph Greenawalt   (Oct 27, 2008 at 17:55 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

My issues have been resolved with Anthony's help :-) It looks like there's quite a bit wrong with the stronghold game example, I would recommend that others don't go down this road (for now anyways) and instead start with T3D as Anthony suggested.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 18:34 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

OK I found the issue, it is strictly a TGEA issue, we ill post a new version ASAP, great Bug catch keep at it!

mb   (Oct 27, 2008 at 18:52 GMT)

Any ideas about my issue? I seem to be missing files in the download from garagegames.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 19:02 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@mb Sorry for the delay, those errors look like the app isn't reading the dso files. Would you mind implimenting the tweaker in a fresh version of torque and see if you have the same problem.

Edward   (Oct 27, 2008 at 19:11 GMT)

could those that have paid for the application actually just get the cs files? I am still trying to figure out why im getting a horde of ..

onMouseLeave: undefined for object 'StartupGui' - id 16785
onMouseEnter: undefined for object 'StartupGui2' - id 16786
onMouseLeave: undefined for object 'StartupGui2' - id 16786
onMouseEnter: undefined for object 'StartupGui5' - id 16787
onMouseLeave: undefined for object 'StartupGui5' - id 16787
onMouseEnter: undefined for object 'StartupGui3' - id 16788

onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18114
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18116
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18118
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18120
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18122
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18124
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18126
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18128
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18130
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18132
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18134
onAdd: undefined for object 'MissionInfo' - id 18136

the list goes on, even when loading simple missions. It keeps giving me undefined messages. I commented out the server and im currently trying to track down..

--------Initializing: TWEAKER--------------------
Loading compiled script plastic/tweak/strUtil.cs.
Missing file: plastic/ui/tweak/guiUtil.cs!
Loading compiled script plastic/tweak/tweakManager.cs.

Where is the guiUtil.cs? i have looked for the guiUtil.dso

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 19:16 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@edward I am not certain of those errors, had you implimented other plastic gems or resources, those errors don't look related to the tweaker.

As for guiUtil.cs it is a legacy file which is unneeded.

We are evaluating how to distribute .cs files as to prevent piracy.

Edward   (Oct 27, 2008 at 19:29 GMT)

the only items i have added was the engine changes in plastic tweaker support, and the engine changes in the documentation. and these errors started occuring immediatly and frequently, with the console ballooning up to 40mb and then crashing.

I commented out the guiutil and the server file mentioned above simply moving it to the another file server side. reducing the need to call it.

But thank you for keeping up with this, i cant wait to see additional addons to this, there is always these initial speedbumps but your holding up well, bear with it, and your product is good, just going through growing pains :) going from a handful of testers to a lot more testers does that.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 19:35 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Well put, so then Edward, are you using TGE or TGEA, also is the tweaker working aside these spam messages?

Additionally turn on tracing trace(1); when you see the spamming send me the console.log when done.
Edited on Oct 27, 2008 19:41 GMT

Edward   (Oct 27, 2008 at 20:16 GMT)

I am using TGE 1.5.2 with AFX 1.0.2 here is a few more additional examples of the errors, i suspect it has something to do with the consolefunction.cc or .h files.. but definitly engine side.

rafb.net/p/sfDRbX74.html

Yes, the tweaker and everything else seems to work fine. But somewhere between the engine changes and the recompile. These popped up. It affects everything. As long as I close the game before the console piles up to 40mbs, it crashes it. Maybe I put it something wrong somewhere. Would tweaker work properly even if the engine stuff isnt in properly?

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 27, 2008 at 20:33 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Ahh AFX, we have not tested the Plastic Tweaker against an AFX build, certainly some issue will arise.

By default the tweaker should work with a fresh TGE out of the box ( note reload state on weapons will not work BUT everything else 'should'.)

I got 2 test for ya :

1) Impliment Plastic Tweaker on a non AFX version of TGE and let me know if issue still arises.

2) remove any C++ changes you made to your AFX engine and try to get the tweaker to run with just scripts, again let me know the results of the test.

Nothing like debugging a problem

John Adams   (Oct 30, 2008 at 00:58 GMT)

Can't seem to get this to work. I set it up on TGE and it worked fine. Tried to set it up on TGEA and I get the following...

Engine initialized...
Error connecting to plasticgames.com: No error
Warning! You have a duplicate datablock name of tweakServConnection. This can cause problems. You should rename one of them.
Error connecting to plasticgames.com: No error
GFXTextureManager::createTexture - Unable to load Texture: tools/controls/dropDown_i
GFXTextureManager::createTexture - Unable to load Texture: tools/controls/dropDown_i
GFXTextureManager::createTexture - Unable to load Texture: tools/controls/dropDown_i
No texture loaded for scroll control named (null) with profile TweakMenuDefault
No texture loaded for scroll control named (null) with profile TweakMenuDefault
No texture loaded for scroll control named (null) with profile TweakMenuDefault
tools/plastic/tweak/tweakParser.cs (1307): Unable to find function pathCopy
Warning! You have a duplicate datablock name of tweakServConnection. This can cause problems. You should rename one of them.
Error connecting to plasticgames.com: No error


any help would be great.
Thanks
John

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Oct 30, 2008 at 15:42 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@John
The pathCopy() needs to be added to console\fileSystemFunctions.cpp see step 4) in TGEA installation
Hope this resolves your problem


I am packaging up a new build 1.0.4 to have some of these issues resolved
AR

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Nov 04, 2008 at 15:24 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

To all , Tweaker has been updated, feel free to get latest version and replace the scripts, it should resolve any issues presented here

Officially the changes are as follows

- Added bitmap = "./tweakScroll" property added to TweakMenuDefault GuiProfile, fixing crash in TGEA Stronghold Game Project
- Removed exec("./tweakServer.cs"); from /plastic/init.cs, instead it is called in plastic/server/init.cs
- Removed exec("./ui/tweak/guiUtil.cs"); from tweakInit.cs this was a legacy file that is unneeded now
- Change references of BETA to DEMO
- Version number updated

Scott Warren   (Nov 05, 2008 at 01:28 GMT)

My 3rd post and request for Tweaker at Step #5 of the enhancements to an AFX build.
Just noticed the Blog and this thread also.
I am wondering about Enhancements part. Tweaker code at step 5 would break some of the AFX code.
I apologise in advance for asking so often.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Nov 05, 2008 at 02:13 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

@Scott please clarify what you mean by step 5?
Edited on Nov 05, 2008 02:13 GMT

Scott Warren   (Nov 05, 2008 at 03:01 GMT)

Installing Tweaker is mostly Script code.
The enhancement section of the Tweaker install guide is for the Engine Code.
Opening the TGE with ArcaneFX engine code reveals that where the guide shows :

5) Now to define reloadStates and expose it as a console function. In game(T3D)/shapeimage.cc after ShapeBaseImageData::~ShapeBaseImageData(){} [bold]add[/bold]




The code section in this step is far different in several places then the same section in AFX engine code.
I won't post the exact code for either section in here because both products require purchase and I'd rather not have my post edited out.



( I have been instructed from another thread, not to expect anything if it's not in your blog.)
So I hereby state that I do not expect you to make Tweaker compatible with AFX engine code. It is simply a question if you will add it, or a request to add it.
Edited on Nov 05, 2008 03:12 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Nov 05, 2008 at 03:13 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Do you mean to say that AFX has a function for shapebaseimage called reloadStates() also? if you Changed all the tweaker referances to reloadTweakerStates() in the declaration, definition, and console method. Does it compile?
Edited on Nov 05, 2008 03:14 GMT

Scott Warren   (Nov 05, 2008 at 03:16 GMT)

I will email you the exact code section. I cannot risk showing the code in open forum.
Edited on Nov 05, 2008 04:01 GMT

CSMP   (Nov 17, 2008 at 22:30 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Edit: Any chance of getting the .cs files before christmas? : )
Edited on Dec 06, 2008 00:43 GMT

Daniel Dewey   (Dec 21, 2008 at 07:12 GMT)

All the missing .cs files are due to running the delete dso bat file. Before running that file, the folder is filled with .cs.dso of the files. I'm not sure how to still be able to run the deleteDSO's file without messing up Plastic Tweaker yet.

CSMP   (Dec 21, 2008 at 08:05 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

this is a very nice tool but not having the .cs files is making it so much of a headache that i cannot use this until the files are available...

Any info on the release of the .cs files will be Greatly appreciated.

Edit: Daniel you will most likely need to re-copy the plastic folder whenever you use deletedso's
Edited on Dec 23, 2008 00:50 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 01, 2009 at 01:58 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

ok, im tired of waiting with no response, i have posted what i think of this product without the source and without support.

I have given up caring about this product at the moment and i feel the money could have been spent better elsewhere.

and as i said on the product review:
Thanks and Good Job to those who created this and Pitiful for those working on Support, Info and source availability.

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Jan 01, 2009 at 14:03 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

CSMP I am sorry you feel ignored it has been the Holidays for us too, please forgive our slow response.

Currently we do not plan on releasing the .cs file as to reduce pirating. There would be no major benefit to releasing due to the fact we already released extensive documentation in the Plastic Gem Series

I am not aware of any email from you about any problems you have had getting the Plastic Tweaker to work, nor is their any post here indicating that you were unable to use the product. If you do have an installation problem please feel free to contact me directly.

As for the issue with the deleteDSO.bat a simple change to the .bat file could easily solve your problem.


The deletedso.bat file deletes all .dso files from all subfolders where the bat is placed
The addition of an extra commands like


prior to the delete dso command


will change the directory of where the deleting starts.
Going back up to change directories again is again a simple command


This code is DOS commands and beyond the scope of installation due to the fact is is dependant on any one's file layout
Edited on Jan 01, 2009 14:59 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Jan 01, 2009 at 14:05 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

Edited on Jan 01, 2009 14:07 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 02, 2009 at 09:39 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Please rethink your qoute of "No major benefit for releasing the .cs source files", because it might not benefit you but it would benefit all of us.

This is why there are forums that are accessable only to those who have purchased the product and this is why people will pay for the product, because of the product support and resources that come with it.

Wow, so let me get this straight then... no source!?
Edited on Jan 02, 2009 12:51 GMT

Anthony Rosenbaum   (Jan 02, 2009 at 17:05 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

We have no plans on releasing the source, we are sorry you had the impression we were going to.

We never intended for anyone to extend or improve our tool.Out of curiosity, what did you need the source for?

CSMP   (Jan 03, 2009 at 02:35 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Your going to hold on to $35 Engine script source due to piracy and sell the GG community script files and gui windows without source and tell us we have access to free resources to learn how to create your program that we bought?

I Feel Fucked.

I had plans for making this tool into many useful engine tools, custom editors and make everything i need liveupdate for my engine but without source you all have limited me, i bought the Torque engine because of the source that came with it, i bought content packs because of the source that came with it, i bought this because of the source you said we would have access to and was not lead to believe otherwise.

If you do not intend to release the source i would like a refund.
Edited on Jan 03, 2009 12:41 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 03, 2009 at 02:48 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Edited on Jan 03, 2009 12:14 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 03, 2009 at 04:19 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Edited on Jan 03, 2009 11:58 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 03, 2009 at 04:58 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

Please for the sake of the community release the source files.

I feel if you dont then you will be setting back the community, the same one that pays you.
Edited on Jan 03, 2009 12:24 GMT

Paul Dana   (Jan 03, 2009 at 15:26 GMT)

CSMP,

We at Plastic Games are sorry you were under the impression you were buying source. That must be disappointing. However, we are not selling the source and our product description does not say or imply that we do. We are curious what you planned to do with the source.

You say "I had plans for making this tool into many useful engine tools, custom editors and make everything i need liveupdate for my engine". Were you planning on making those tools to make your game more tweakable, or were you going to sell those tools? Selling them would not be allowed by the Torque license. If you are doing this to improve your game - then you can use our tool as-is (it is already a useful engine tool and allows liveupdate of your game variables when run in single player mode)

If you were planning on making OTHER tools based on our tool technology, then that is something you would not be allowed to do. Is that the conditions you bought our product under? That you planned on turning into into a different product? Our product was never advertised as a tool-making kit, so I am not sure where the expectation came from. Anthony's post back in October about evaluating how we are going to distribute the product was poorly worded, and we apologize for that.

As you can see from our Gem-A-Day series we always release source code with our resources, and if we were to make any content / code packs we would do the same. We also chose Torque because of the availability of source code, so we understand that desire. That fact that we have given away for free all the information and source codes in those 40 plus excellent Gems should also show that we are concerned with supporting the community.

That being said, we feel that not releasing sources on this product is the best way we can protect ourselves. We are sorry if this inconveniences you. We will inform GG of your unhappiness and I am sure they will offer a refund. We are also sorry you felt the need to smear our good name and bad mouth this product in every posting where it appears. That hardly seems called for.

Rocky Bevins   (Jan 03, 2009 at 15:39 GMT)   Resource Rating: 5

I could make a great tool out of photoshop source too. The tweaker is itself the product, I don't see why you assumed you would get the .cs files.

CSMP   (Jan 04, 2009 at 01:03 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

I already understand you cant sell packs based from packs, I never said i wanted to sell anything and it seems to me that all you all care about is piracy and someone selling your source.

I guess im the only one to see the potential for upgrades in this, as there is nothing You can do that would modify this any further to what I need for my engine

Change the sales page to clearly notify anyone else that no source is included and i will edit posts, otherwise i think every post is relevant.

@Rocky: photoshop is not made from Torque script and is not sold on GG and also theres "We are evaluating how to distribute .cs files as to prevent piracy." as said by Anthony Oct, 27(before i bought the product).

@Paul & Anthony: Thank you for the help, sadly we see things a little differantly.
Edited on Jan 04, 2009 02:41 GMT

CSMP   (Jan 04, 2009 at 02:22 GMT)   Resource Rating: 2

I believe there was a certain level of False Advertisement or at least False information and I purchased the product under these expectations... so understand my point of view for the actions i have taken.

I am not a monster and i am sorry for everything, i would more then appreciate a refund and i have removed most of my posts and raised my rating for this product due to the support Anthony and Paul have provided.

no hard feelings for anyone from PG, this product just wasnt as i was lead to believe and i believe that was BOTH our faults, hopefully you will not have to deal with this type of problem again, and thank you for dealing with it professionally (and i will repeat I Am Sorry).
Edited on Jan 04, 2009 03:32 GMT

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