by date
Plan for Jeremy Alessi
Plan for Jeremy Alessi
| Name: | Jeremy Alessi |  |
|---|---|---|
| Date Posted: | Feb 22, 2005 | |
| Rating: |  Not Rated | |
| Public: | YES | |
| Comments: | YES | |
| RSS Feed: |  or Subscribe with  . | |
| Profile Page: | View profile page for Jeremy Alessi |
Blog post
CREATIVE DIFFERENCES ...
... I'd heard the phrase a million times before and I always hated it. Everyone's had a favorite band, game development studio, or maybe movie production studio that has split up because of this term. It was almost painful for me to read the chapter in Masters of Doom about the split of the two Johns ... why I begged why???
Now what I'm about to talk about is nothing compared to that ... and no one will probably care but here goes...
Sometimes it just so happens that two (or more) people see things differently and neither refuses to budge. I never really thought this sort of thing would happen to me ... I usually feel so flexible like I'll just kind of do anything. However, when it comes to making games I guess I'm just not that flexible.
For about a year now I've been trying to persuade my partner in crime that we should work with Torque. It is apparent to me that any game created with a tool such as Blitz is stuck. Even if it's an outrageously good game it'll always be limited to mediocre success because there is no portable C++ core to be had. Games such as Worms were originally written in Blitz but they had to be ported over to C++ sooner or later.
Torque on the other hand gives you the C++ core and has been successfully ported over to other platforms. Now everyone says just aim for the PC, Mac, and Linux ... and if the game is good enough well then maybe you can get on Xbox. That's fine and dandy but the truth is I WANT ON XBOX!
If you aim for something chances are you're going to get it and my aim has always been to one day get on the consoles. Torque, as far as I can see, is the best route to achieve that goal ... amongst numerous others. For instance there seem to be more developers living off their creations because of this community and Torque than any other. I can't help it ... to me it's so obviously the best direction to take ... I'm completely blinded and see no benefit in continuing to develop titles with something like Blitz.
The conflict between going on with Torque alone or staying and trying to develop games with my current partner has caused a lot of inner turmoil for me. I definitely felt I had a good alliance with him ... but over the past year it's been very rough. This is because I found it hard to get motivated after Aerial Antics seemed to be a financial flop ... no matter what sort of changes I made to the game it wouldn't sell better ... and then realizing that I wanted to go onto Torque but didn't have my partner's support ... well that just made me linger in a sort of limbo position where I didn't dedicate myself fully to anything of significance for the long haul. We did get Market Value done but it was supposed to be a really quick game that turned into several months ... and it was the only title we completed in 2004.
While I'm grateful for what we did do I can't help but think of the numerous other prototypes we had going and why I didn't want to work on them for the long haul. The reason is ... because even though they were very cool ideas ... I knew they wouldn't go too far and that's just not how I want to be.
You have to firmly believe that something is going to make a big splash to get behind it 100% ... with True-Vol and Aerial Antics I got behind them 100% because I thought they'd be great and make that big splash ... and each game did in a way. They didn't do exactly what I expected but the point is that I had the belief that they would. After seeing what became of them though I realized that I don't want to make the same mistakes again and have another game that just doesn't quite do it.
With a tool like Blitz you're always making these sort of half-engines. You make something to get the game up and running quickly but it's not as dynamic an engine as something like Torque is. So you spend time and energy making this half-engine so you can get a playable game going (meanwhile you could have just gotten right into gameplay with Torque). When it comes time to fix things after the game has been written it's a tremendous hassle because everything's tied up into itself because you didn't have a full engine and it's a mess.
Of course you could write a full engine in the language but why? First of all it'd still take you years (as can be witnessed by observing the guy who wrote Cartography Shop and numerous others) to write a decent game engine. Second ... the damn thing still won't go anywhere because it's written in BASIC! So it makes no sense to write an entire dynamic engine and then it also makes no sense to cludge these half-engines to get games done relatively quickly ... both choices are losers.
Which brings me to Valve ... they made their first big game (Half-Life) utilizing Quake 2 technology. Now they've made they're own kick ass engine called Source. Maybe this seems out of context but it's not ... because surely all the people behind the programming of those games started out programming games in BASIC. That's the way it works ... you make some games in BASIC ... you realize the limitations ... you get your feet wet with a real game engine and learn a thing or two ... then you create your magnum opus.
Am I wrong? Nevermind ... I know I'm not wrong...
Is my partner wrong ... well he's got his goals and he's just choosing to do what he perceives to be the best thing for him on a personal level. He needs to do his artwork (mainly full scale environments) with 3DS Max to impress potential employers (in case our stuff never takes off) and Torque doesn't really allow for this as he'd be limited to characters and static shapes. It's also what he enjoys doing, which really is what being independent is all about. He's just doing what's best for him and his family and I understand that.
Is he doing what's best for Leadfoot Productions? Hell No!
However, that doesn't make him wrong ;) Thus we arrive where we begun ... creative differences <sigh> So sad :(....
No one's wrong ... there's just a fork in the road and eventually you've got to take yours.
Surely, we will still work together on other projects ... but in Torque Territory I'll be going it alone for a while.
P.S. - Torque artists ... keep an eye out for me! I've got a good little game brewing and I'll be posting some development snapshots soon!
Now what I'm about to talk about is nothing compared to that ... and no one will probably care but here goes...
Sometimes it just so happens that two (or more) people see things differently and neither refuses to budge. I never really thought this sort of thing would happen to me ... I usually feel so flexible like I'll just kind of do anything. However, when it comes to making games I guess I'm just not that flexible.
For about a year now I've been trying to persuade my partner in crime that we should work with Torque. It is apparent to me that any game created with a tool such as Blitz is stuck. Even if it's an outrageously good game it'll always be limited to mediocre success because there is no portable C++ core to be had. Games such as Worms were originally written in Blitz but they had to be ported over to C++ sooner or later.
Torque on the other hand gives you the C++ core and has been successfully ported over to other platforms. Now everyone says just aim for the PC, Mac, and Linux ... and if the game is good enough well then maybe you can get on Xbox. That's fine and dandy but the truth is I WANT ON XBOX!
If you aim for something chances are you're going to get it and my aim has always been to one day get on the consoles. Torque, as far as I can see, is the best route to achieve that goal ... amongst numerous others. For instance there seem to be more developers living off their creations because of this community and Torque than any other. I can't help it ... to me it's so obviously the best direction to take ... I'm completely blinded and see no benefit in continuing to develop titles with something like Blitz.
The conflict between going on with Torque alone or staying and trying to develop games with my current partner has caused a lot of inner turmoil for me. I definitely felt I had a good alliance with him ... but over the past year it's been very rough. This is because I found it hard to get motivated after Aerial Antics seemed to be a financial flop ... no matter what sort of changes I made to the game it wouldn't sell better ... and then realizing that I wanted to go onto Torque but didn't have my partner's support ... well that just made me linger in a sort of limbo position where I didn't dedicate myself fully to anything of significance for the long haul. We did get Market Value done but it was supposed to be a really quick game that turned into several months ... and it was the only title we completed in 2004.
While I'm grateful for what we did do I can't help but think of the numerous other prototypes we had going and why I didn't want to work on them for the long haul. The reason is ... because even though they were very cool ideas ... I knew they wouldn't go too far and that's just not how I want to be.
You have to firmly believe that something is going to make a big splash to get behind it 100% ... with True-Vol and Aerial Antics I got behind them 100% because I thought they'd be great and make that big splash ... and each game did in a way. They didn't do exactly what I expected but the point is that I had the belief that they would. After seeing what became of them though I realized that I don't want to make the same mistakes again and have another game that just doesn't quite do it.
With a tool like Blitz you're always making these sort of half-engines. You make something to get the game up and running quickly but it's not as dynamic an engine as something like Torque is. So you spend time and energy making this half-engine so you can get a playable game going (meanwhile you could have just gotten right into gameplay with Torque). When it comes time to fix things after the game has been written it's a tremendous hassle because everything's tied up into itself because you didn't have a full engine and it's a mess.
Of course you could write a full engine in the language but why? First of all it'd still take you years (as can be witnessed by observing the guy who wrote Cartography Shop and numerous others) to write a decent game engine. Second ... the damn thing still won't go anywhere because it's written in BASIC! So it makes no sense to write an entire dynamic engine and then it also makes no sense to cludge these half-engines to get games done relatively quickly ... both choices are losers.
Which brings me to Valve ... they made their first big game (Half-Life) utilizing Quake 2 technology. Now they've made they're own kick ass engine called Source. Maybe this seems out of context but it's not ... because surely all the people behind the programming of those games started out programming games in BASIC. That's the way it works ... you make some games in BASIC ... you realize the limitations ... you get your feet wet with a real game engine and learn a thing or two ... then you create your magnum opus.
Am I wrong? Nevermind ... I know I'm not wrong...
Is my partner wrong ... well he's got his goals and he's just choosing to do what he perceives to be the best thing for him on a personal level. He needs to do his artwork (mainly full scale environments) with 3DS Max to impress potential employers (in case our stuff never takes off) and Torque doesn't really allow for this as he'd be limited to characters and static shapes. It's also what he enjoys doing, which really is what being independent is all about. He's just doing what's best for him and his family and I understand that.
Is he doing what's best for Leadfoot Productions? Hell No!
However, that doesn't make him wrong ;) Thus we arrive where we begun ... creative differences <sigh> So sad :(....
No one's wrong ... there's just a fork in the road and eventually you've got to take yours.
Surely, we will still work together on other projects ... but in Torque Territory I'll be going it alone for a while.
P.S. - Torque artists ... keep an eye out for me! I've got a good little game brewing and I'll be posting some development snapshots soon!
Recent Blog Posts
| List: | 03/27/08 - Games Demystified, Super Mario Galaxy 03/10/08 - Statue of Liberty Size Up 03/10/08 - Big Weekend, Low Spec PC Port Coming 03/06/08 - Full Contact Debate Mac Build is Up ... 03/04/08 - Full Contact Debate Mac Port 02/29/08 - The Polls... 02/25/08 - Why piracy and sales are both dead ... 02/23/08 - Full Contact Debate Weekend Update |
|---|
Submit your own resources!| Phil Carlisle (Feb 22, 2005 at 09:16 GMT) |
But it hurts to stop working with someone when the partnership actually works. Thats rare enough in ANY walk of life.
Tough call really.
| Jay Moore (Feb 22, 2005 at 09:19 GMT) |
I know you'll find new collaborators and I welcome back the enthusiasm and determination you've shown in the past.
You may find T2D isn't such a bad place to get some good games done quickly. My favorite tag a the moment its "Make it fast... make it fun" I think there are gold in them thar' hills for game designers with clearity of vision and who want to stretch the boundries of what has been possible in 2d in the past. That's right T2D is coming...
| Josh Williams (Feb 22, 2005 at 11:01 GMT) |
| Timothy Aste (Feb 22, 2005 at 11:32 GMT) |
Good to hear your trying Torque on!
Can't wait to see what you come up with Jeremey, always a fan of your stuff in the past.
Edited on Feb 22, 2005 11:33 GMT
| Jeff Tunnell (Feb 22, 2005 at 17:24 GMT) |
-Jeff Tunnell GG
| David Montgomery-Blake (Feb 22, 2005 at 17:32 GMT) |
I'm sure that both of you will find your ways in the world. You may even find a common path down the road.
| Adrian Tysoe (Feb 22, 2005 at 18:49 GMT) |
I don't actually mind seperating and you going off and doing your games in Torque. I actually think its a good idea, we have so many differences just in the types of games we like. And we both have conflicting ideas and tastes that make it hard to compromise in everything we do.
I wish you all the luck that you deserve, your a great guy and most of the differences should never be taken personaly. Were both stubborn mules, I know what I like and want from life, I've been doing game dev for almost a decade now, and have plenty of directions I can go in both commercial and indie.
For me personaly the leadfoot games weren't my cup of tea, but despite that I did enjoy working on Aerial Antics, despite the many limitations with the art path back then, it still came out pretty good. I just don't want to step back to that level again as the current tools offer the kinds of creative freedom I had with the proprietary engines I worked with prior to going indie.
If Torque ever gets support for a generic 3D file format, .FX or similar shader materials from 3dsmax and arbitrary collision meshes I'll be on it in a shot, and so would a lot of others I'm sure. I know of one commercial developer that has already done it with TSE in just a few short months, I hope that someday Garage games offer the same versatility, that would be just the engine I'd want to use. In the meantime I'm going to stick with the tools I have and perhaps try gamebench when its done.
Wish you all the best with Torque, and who knows, we might get together again and make another game someday in the future. Looks like a lot depends on how Torque develops in the next 12-18 months.
My next goal is to go back and finish FMC after I complete the GT game.
I guess we have a few things to talk about.
Edited on Feb 22, 2005 18:57 GMT
| Jay Barnson (Feb 22, 2005 at 19:50 GMT) |
| Joshua Dallman (Feb 22, 2005 at 21:11 GMT) |
Well, not quite -- but shoot for the moon and if you miss you'll land at least among the stars.
When making ANY business decision, I always ask myself this: will this option give me MORE options, or LESS options? If working with someone gives you less options, it might be time to split. If working with someone gives you more options (in quality, variety, and potential success of their artwork), then you hang on. There's no shortage of good artists out there, you just have to get past knocking on their door (or having them find you)! And remember, great gameplay with lackluster art = OK. Great art with lackluster gameplay = not OK!
Stick with Torque and I'm sure you'll do great.
| Adrian Tysoe (Feb 22, 2005 at 21:23 GMT) |
I've also been coding on and off for several months, have done scripting with other engines and have a pretty big pool of programmers to work with, so I know I'll be fine, can get the kind of gameplay I want and even help a little on the front end UI and menu coding side of things.
And I'm certain that Jeremy will have no trouble finding artists, since he has 2 respectable games under his belt, and has improved his skils considerably in the 1.5 years I have known him.
Both the games we did have already proven profitable for me, just not directly through game sales. But new type sof experience you don't have as an employee wit a regular game job I have also gotten contract work worth several thousand dollars, some of it directly due to the quality of our games. Plus a lot of invites for small contract game development, engineering, and architectural projects.
So no regrets here, just a little numb feeling, since its hard to walk away from something you worked pretty hard at. The last 6 months were pretty unproductive and havig a wife, family and other commitments, as far as Leadfoot goes, I don't have the luxury of sitting around waiting for things to happen. I have to keep busy. The stagnant spell once I got over feeling stuck and frustrated did give me opportunities to do a lot of other things and establish myself in such a way that I have a steady flow of income whilst still having plenty of time to build a career in indie development.
At the end of the day you have to walk into these things with your head screwed on, and a backup plan. I started on mine a few months ago and have had quite a bit of success.
Edited on Feb 22, 2005 21:36 GMT
| David Montgomery-Blake (Feb 22, 2005 at 22:19 GMT) |
| Jeremy Alessi (Feb 23, 2005 at 07:10 GMT) |
You must be a member and be logged in to either append comments or rate this resource.
