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How to talk to composers.
How to talk to composers.
| Name: | Matt Sayre |  |
|---|---|---|
| Date Posted: | Jul 07, 2008 | |
| Rating: |  4.0 out of 5 | |
| Public: | YES | |
| Comments: | YES | |
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| Profile Page: | View profile page for Matt Sayre |
Blog post
Note: This is the latest post from my game music blog for developers and composers at gamenotes.org
This post is dedicated to the many fine game developers out there who may not be sure whether or not they've been communicating "correctly" with composers in order to achieve the best soundtrack possible. It was inspired somewhat by my own dealings in the industry (which have almost all been great) and also inspired by watching our dog and cat try to figure out each other's weird forms of communication. Cats are not receptive to play bows.
If the sum total of your musical experience are those miserable 3 months of piano lessons your parents forced you to take when you were 7 years old, you may be hesitant to talk to a composer about the soundtrack of your game. You may have a good idea about what you want, but you could be unsure about discussing music with someone who makes their living doing music. You're sure to look like a fool talking with someone who possesses so much more musical knowledge than you, right?
Well, here's a little secret about most composers. They BS like crazy. You see, there are no absolutes in music. Music can't say "tree" or "scarf" or "flaming tarantula". It's an incredibly abstract art. It's a great way to communicate feelings or moods but a horrible way to communicate information. So when someone claims to know exactly what a composer is saying with a text-less piece of music, you can be sure they are practicing the timeless art of BS. Sure, it's fun to talk about music and attribute all sorts of deeply meaningful high-falutin' concepts to it, but in the end all the discussion can not possibly mean squat. The only thing that means squat is what the music says to an individual.
Now with that mind, you should feel easier talking to a composer about your soundtrack. Takes the pressure off knowing that there is in fact no right and wrong in music, eh? Tell them what feeling you want the music to evoke. Tell them how fast or slow you'd like it. Describe anything you feel will help bring the musical vision in your head into light. Talking to the composer is important, but there's another thing you should do to really help communicate your needs for the soundtrack:
Show the composer pieces of music that you think are appropriate for the game, or pieces that at least have some aspect that you would like to hear in your game. Don't worry about plagiarism. Any composer worth his or her salt will give you something fresh and new that uses the aspects you like from the other pieces, but in no way steals those specific aspects. Browse Amazon and send links to their demos. Upload an MP3 of a piece that you think captures your needs. Pictures are worth 1000 words. Music is the same way.
Let me go back a second to clarify my "there is no right and wrong in music" statement from above. That statement only applies to the overall conceptual ideas contained in the music. One person's reminiscent feeling may be another's foreboding feeling. Neither is right, neither is wrong. However, when discussing music theory and using musical terminology, there is indeed a right and wrong. You can't say something is in a major key when it is in a minor key, for instance. And that bring me to my next point:
A little musical knowledge can be dangerous. If you tell the composer you want the tempo to be "andante" but you actually want "presto", you may be sabotaging the soundtrack from the beginning. You would never tell a visual artist that you want an "azul" color when what you actually want is brown, right? If you're not sure about your musical terminology, just use plain old simple English. We understand that just as well, if not better than, the silly (mostly Italian) words we've come up with to describe the various parts of music making.
And finally, part of talking to anyone is listening to them as well. Do go into the soundtrack discussion with an open mind. Composers have made it their life's work to create and listen to soundtracks. We may have an idea or two that is worth considering. Before giving them your ideas about the soundtrack, give them all the information you can about the game (art, story, maybe a prototype) and ask them to come up with their own vision for the game. We enjoy that sort of thing. And we may come at the soundtrack from a different angle than you do, which you may actually find very appealing.
Or not. Keep in mind, the composer is there to make the soundtrack you want. It's got to be true to the overall vision for the game. If they come up with something wonderful, by all means use it. But you, having lived with the game for far longer than they have, should be quite secure letting them know what you want. Don't worry about being looked down upon. If that happens, you can be sure that composer is probably very insecure and they're artificially inflating their security by belittling you. Music isn't about security. The good ones know that and are happy to take each game's unique musical journey with you.
gamenotes.org
This post is dedicated to the many fine game developers out there who may not be sure whether or not they've been communicating "correctly" with composers in order to achieve the best soundtrack possible. It was inspired somewhat by my own dealings in the industry (which have almost all been great) and also inspired by watching our dog and cat try to figure out each other's weird forms of communication. Cats are not receptive to play bows.
If the sum total of your musical experience are those miserable 3 months of piano lessons your parents forced you to take when you were 7 years old, you may be hesitant to talk to a composer about the soundtrack of your game. You may have a good idea about what you want, but you could be unsure about discussing music with someone who makes their living doing music. You're sure to look like a fool talking with someone who possesses so much more musical knowledge than you, right?
Well, here's a little secret about most composers. They BS like crazy. You see, there are no absolutes in music. Music can't say "tree" or "scarf" or "flaming tarantula". It's an incredibly abstract art. It's a great way to communicate feelings or moods but a horrible way to communicate information. So when someone claims to know exactly what a composer is saying with a text-less piece of music, you can be sure they are practicing the timeless art of BS. Sure, it's fun to talk about music and attribute all sorts of deeply meaningful high-falutin' concepts to it, but in the end all the discussion can not possibly mean squat. The only thing that means squat is what the music says to an individual.
Now with that mind, you should feel easier talking to a composer about your soundtrack. Takes the pressure off knowing that there is in fact no right and wrong in music, eh? Tell them what feeling you want the music to evoke. Tell them how fast or slow you'd like it. Describe anything you feel will help bring the musical vision in your head into light. Talking to the composer is important, but there's another thing you should do to really help communicate your needs for the soundtrack:
Show the composer pieces of music that you think are appropriate for the game, or pieces that at least have some aspect that you would like to hear in your game. Don't worry about plagiarism. Any composer worth his or her salt will give you something fresh and new that uses the aspects you like from the other pieces, but in no way steals those specific aspects. Browse Amazon and send links to their demos. Upload an MP3 of a piece that you think captures your needs. Pictures are worth 1000 words. Music is the same way.
Let me go back a second to clarify my "there is no right and wrong in music" statement from above. That statement only applies to the overall conceptual ideas contained in the music. One person's reminiscent feeling may be another's foreboding feeling. Neither is right, neither is wrong. However, when discussing music theory and using musical terminology, there is indeed a right and wrong. You can't say something is in a major key when it is in a minor key, for instance. And that bring me to my next point:
A little musical knowledge can be dangerous. If you tell the composer you want the tempo to be "andante" but you actually want "presto", you may be sabotaging the soundtrack from the beginning. You would never tell a visual artist that you want an "azul" color when what you actually want is brown, right? If you're not sure about your musical terminology, just use plain old simple English. We understand that just as well, if not better than, the silly (mostly Italian) words we've come up with to describe the various parts of music making.
And finally, part of talking to anyone is listening to them as well. Do go into the soundtrack discussion with an open mind. Composers have made it their life's work to create and listen to soundtracks. We may have an idea or two that is worth considering. Before giving them your ideas about the soundtrack, give them all the information you can about the game (art, story, maybe a prototype) and ask them to come up with their own vision for the game. We enjoy that sort of thing. And we may come at the soundtrack from a different angle than you do, which you may actually find very appealing.
Or not. Keep in mind, the composer is there to make the soundtrack you want. It's got to be true to the overall vision for the game. If they come up with something wonderful, by all means use it. But you, having lived with the game for far longer than they have, should be quite secure letting them know what you want. Don't worry about being looked down upon. If that happens, you can be sure that composer is probably very insecure and they're artificially inflating their security by belittling you. Music isn't about security. The good ones know that and are happy to take each game's unique musical journey with you.
gamenotes.org
Recent Blog Posts
| List: | 09/25/08 - What makes a sound effect bad? 07/07/08 - How to talk to composers. 06/25/08 - How to get started as a game industry composer. 06/23/08 - Are you a com-poseur? 06/20/08 - New game music blog 07/13/07 - Lessons from MLB All-Star Fanfest. 04/25/07 - Eets: Chowdown on XBLA and TubeTwist in stores! 12/27/06 - SFX484 launch and new game |
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Submit your own resources!| Novack (Jul 07, 2008 at 22:58 GMT) |
| Will Zettler (Jul 08, 2008 at 05:14 GMT) |
Will Zettler
Digital Lightstorm
Waskom Tx
magic_man4_life@yahoo.com
| Matt Sayre (Jul 08, 2008 at 06:00 GMT) |
Will: Perhaps you misinterpreted my post. Music can indeed convey a message, but only a general message. Also, there is no one correct way to interpret that message and music is a very poor way to convey a specific message. Hence the rampant BS flowing out of composers' mouths. Music's a personal thing. Once a composer has created a piece of music, his or her interpretation of the music is just that: one more interpretation of the music. You speak of moods for music. Yes, music can do that too and, well, I sure hope it creates a mood! But again, it's a very personal thing. (please also keep in mind my post deals entirely with music that has no text)
The BS about what a piece of music "means" was flowing fast and furious through my undergrad and grad school years. Again, music can't say "war" (unless they use depictive music, such as an air raid horn or cannons within the piece, but that's another subject, along the lines of using words in music). Maybe one person hears it as a war but another person would hear that as their experience in grade school. Music BS is interesting sometimes, sure, but not that relevant to a person's internal experience with the music. In fact, I'd say if a piece needs program notes or the composer's back history in order to be fully enjoyed, the composer has failed in many ways.
Oh and by BS, I don't mean composers lie. I know most composers are very nice and upfront. I just mean they talk too much. They should let their music do the talking for them. Music does indeed have a lot to say. It's just that it has no absolute meaning or message.
Thanks for your $.02 and thanks for reading!
Edited on Jul 08, 2008 06:02 GMT
| Apparatus (Jul 08, 2008 at 10:06 GMT) |
However, a good sound fx / soundtrack, will always make the game/whatever kind of project that is, become complete. It really is one of those things that make or brake; remember one of those trailers where sound really focuses the viewer on events;
There should be a degree of freedom on every composer's table, as long as the outcome serves the idea well. I met however people who were really good at making music/fx - whatever - but couldn't escape their own preferences; so we always end up with a medieval theme spiced up with electronic beeps and scratches; w means, whatever you like, you got to put on the shoes of the customer and provide what you're asked to provide.
that stone head looks like the Sphinx, a rock formation in the Carpati Mountains in Romania, where I live. Is that correct?
Edited on Jul 08, 2008 10:07 GMT
| Will Zettler (Jul 08, 2008 at 16:15 GMT) |
Yeah we do talk to much :-P I did enjoy the read, I try to let the music do my talking for me and express stuff, feelings and ideas without ever saying a word. Maybe I did miss your point in the read, now that you clear it up for me of what you ment, I agree, music has no message but I try to make a statement with every piece I make, no matter how small or large the piece. Its hard to explain here in words, im sure you understand what I mean. Music allows the person hearing it to go to a place in their head without ever actually seeing anything visually, thats what I try to do take people places with mood and sounds not of this earth and transport them to that other dimension. Very good talk though overall, Glad your not mad at me for expressing my thoughts. :-) I have had people flame me for giving any kind of bad or challenging feedback, so that is why I usually don't say much in forums anymore.
Will
| Matt Sayre (Jul 09, 2008 at 06:10 GMT) |
And too true about one trick pony composers. That's fine if the game happens to call for their specialty, but woe be the game that tries to fit in that composer's music somehow.
Will: Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think we're pretty much on the same page. I love to get any sort of feedback and was interested to hear your thoughts on trance, something I'm not too familiar with. It's all good. :)
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